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[BNW] Rhye's Catapult 2020-06-02

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Hello, Rhye! I really like your mod RFC for Civ4 and I decided to compare RFC and Catapult.
I just registered for tell about some problems in the mod which I found:
1. China and India entered the era of renaissance in 500AD
2. Even a provincial city could not be captured by barbarians (Great migration of peoples; I played for Rome). In other words, the siege lasts, on average, indecently long.
Perhaps the problem is not in the mod, but I want more dynamism. What do you think about it?
PS: Sorry for my English :)
 
octocat said:
Hello, Rhye! I really like your mod RFC for Civ4 and I decided to compare RFC and Catapult.
I just registered for tell about some problems in the mod which I found:
1. China and India entered the era of renaissance in 500AD
2. Even a provincial city could not be captured by barbarians (Great migration of peoples; I played for Rome). In other words, the siege lasts, on average, indecently long.
Perhaps the problem is not in the mod, but I want more dynamism. What do you think about it?
PS: Sorry for my English :)
Click to expand...

hi, when China and India were that strong, which civ were you playing?

2. barbarians can't capture cities directly, it's hardcoded in civ5. But a civ collapsing can have some cities descend into barbaric state
 
Thank you, Rhye, for contributing this, and thanks to all the civfanatics who've helped to improve it over the past months. I've tried out a few games with it enabled. I'm really enjoying it, especially because I couldn't quite get into Civ 6 the way I did 4 and 5.
 
Rhye said:
hi, when China and India were that strong, which civ were you playing?

2. barbarians can't capture cities directly, it's hardcoded in civ5. But a civ collapsing can have some cities descend into barbaric state
Click to expand...
1. Rome. I entered the Middle Ages very early too and It happened at the very beginning of A.D.
 
Some feedback from v48:

Rome:

The most pressing issue is lack of cash, it will cripple you and prevent you from doing anything. Greek has way too many units and cities in Greek, conquering them is like battle of Kursk. Needles to say this game needs some heavy rebalancing regarding ai city founding, aggressiviness, number of units, spawn of barbarians, city defence and buildings. I was able to mob Greek out late as 108 AD, this is really how long combat takes.

China:

There are some major bugs right now regarding Chinese starting units. My scout can perform music and have stealth against submarines, same goes with settler and spearman. Game crashed when I clicked options randomly.
 
Thank you for the feedback.

calad said:
Some feedback from v48:
Needles to say this game needs some heavy rebalancing regarding ai city founding, aggressiviness, number of units, spawn of barbarians, city defence and buildings.
.
Click to expand...

can you please be more specific?

calad said:
I was able to mob Greek out late as 108 AD, this is really how long combat takes.
.
Click to expand...

Would a slower timeline be more appropriate?
108AD for taking Greece seems quite reasonable

calad said:
There are some major bugs right now regarding Chinese starting units. My scout can perform music and have stealth against submarines, same goes with settler and spearman. Game crashed when I clicked options randomly.
Click to expand...

do you have any other mods installed? This is typical of a conflict with other mods
 
Rhye said:
can you please be more specific?
Click to expand...
Sure.

AI city founding: Carthage settled zero cities in Iberia for example and Greek camped in core Greek.
Aggressiveness: military AI is completely joke, I guess you are using vanilla files. Greek had many military units but instead of engaging me ai simply made them run circles. When I took Athens ai had landed his last hoplite unit from Greek to Rhodos for example.
Now more important is that AI simply doesn't wage war. Greek hand't conquered even Troy.
About number of military units, because there are no barbarians and because AI is pacifist they cause traffic jams. I was unable to move military units between Corinth and Egypt because every tile had Carthaginian units!
I mentioned barbarians before but it seems they present no treat to player at the moment.
Taking cities is very difficult when there is no room for units. Greek had archers in every tile and warships on sea. When I took a city their whole navy came back and countered my conquest. It was quite frustrating not only lose my unit automatically when city fell but also ai had the city back in 50% strength. I think cities are too strong and when you have defeated the city you should also defeat the garrison unit, but I don't know if you can do anything about that.
Most of the buildings simply drain your economy to ruins, and since you can't build wealth nor buildings that provide wealth you only can build military units and disband them to earn some cash.
Finally about techs. Taking Carthage out is now impossible to Rome because you need compass-tech to move your units over the waters.

Would a slower timeline be more appropriate?
108AD for taking Greece seems quite reasonable
Click to expand...
Greek was the first civ I was able to conquer and I went there right after I got iron and first catapult. Carthage, Egypt and every other were spared because all my time and effort sank in Greek. In other words Roman UHV is not remotely possible right now.
I don't know about slower speed. How the turns are spread over 4000 BC to 2000 AD? Length of combat and number of units seems to be the issue to me.

do you have any other mods installed? This is typical of a conflict with other mods
Click to expand...
No I didn't. I unscripted from every other mod from steam workshop.
 
calad said:
Sure.

AI city founding: Carthage settled zero cities in Iberia for example and Greek camped in core Greek.
Aggressiveness: military AI is completely joke, I guess you are using vanilla files. Greek had many military units but instead of engaging me ai simply made them run circles. When I took Athens ai had landed his last hoplite unit from Greek to Rhodos for example.
Now more important is that AI simply doesn't wage war. Greek hand't conquered even Troy.
About number of military units, because there are no barbarians and because AI is pacifist they cause traffic jams. I was unable to move military units between Corinth and Egypt because every tile had Carthaginian units!
I mentioned barbarians before but it seems they present no treat to player at the moment.
Taking cities is very difficult when there is no room for units. Greek had archers in every tile and warships on sea. When I took a city their whole navy came back and countered my conquest. It was quite frustrating not only lose my unit automatically when city fell but also ai had the city back in 50% strength. I think cities are too strong and when you have defeated the city you should also defeat the garrison unit, but I don't know if you can do anything about that.
Most of the buildings simply drain your economy to ruins, and since you can't build wealth nor buildings that provide wealth you only can build military units and disband them to earn some cash.
Finally about techs. Taking Carthage out is now impossible to Rome because you need compass-tech to move your units over the waters.
Click to expand...

ok i see that this is all related with vanilla AI.
can you suggest a AI improvement-only modified DLL?
 
First let me say what a pleasant surprise ! I have been waiting for years for this mod to be released!! Thank you for your continued work Rhye! No other mod or civ experience has been able to replicate the enjoyment I have had playing your mod and I have actively sought such an experience for over a decade...

Quick question, I cannot find the mod to download. When I click on the 'Download Now Via External Site' it just sends me here http://rhye.civfanatics.net/civ5/Catapult032.zip and I do not see anywhere to download the mod...

Please if anyone else reading this can point me in the right direction I would be very grateful !
 
Rhye said:
I have taken a break since I saw that not much is going on in the community and I've been busier with work.
But I'll soon start again, my next ideas are already decided.
Click to expand...
Looking forward to it! I really do enjoy this mod so far :)
 
Man, this is great. All I ever heard about civ 4 is how good Rhye's and fall was. The concept of this mod is great. However I wanted to ask whether the mod already fits your final vision, or are there gonna be some addons?
Loving it now anyways, much thanks for the effort
 
Okay, here is the announcement of my plans for the future:


1. I will do my best to complete the development of a full Rhye's and Fall.
This will take place in the next months. I with to end all the activities by March, because from that point I will become even busier than now and carrying on it's going to be impossible, so I'll do my best in my spare time before then.

2. This is what's coming next:
I will attempt to do the following:
- Addition of stability and tax panel
- Revision of victory conditions
- Additional rebalancing and minor changes
- Customisation of DLL to fix existing problems
- Integration with Vox Populi AI-only related improvements
The last two and especially the last points are particularly challenging, and I can't tell yet how much of that can be achievable. It will take time but I will try.

3. Taking notice that Civ5 community is more dead than I expected, I wish, through Rise'n'Fall, to hype and revive it.
If everything goes well, I expect to see people calling Civ6 and Civ4 players back/foward to Civ5.
In the following months I will:
- update the old website and create new forum spaces including reddit
- remove the existing files: downloads will be suspended
- creation of a small task force of volunteers that test new features
- re-add the donwloads for everyone when we reach the final beta
 
Thanks for that Rhye. The Vox Pop AI is so much better than vanilla. The DLL code is supposed to have already partitioned VP functionality from vanilla functionality which "in theory" should make the job easier.
 
Sounds great Rhye! I am sure a finished mid will draw people to civ5. It kept me playing civ4 for years and years after going to civ5.

Have you considered opening a discord server?
 
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