[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

Place Amani with Prestige and Emissary promotions to the nearest city state of your target neighbor.
Place all possible governors in boundary cities.
Place all policies with loyalty boost and amenity boost.
Target civs in Dark age while you are in Golden age.
Use spies with reduced mission time promotion.
Use policies that boosts spies.
Refuse trade of luxuries to the target civ.

Run Bread and Circuses.
Pillage their luxury tiles.

I think them being in a dark age is the biggest factor, at least it has been for me so far.

 

[Leyrann]

So how do you actually reduce your neighbour's loyalty?

Not seen this one, very important, assassinate their governors before running the reduce loyalty mission, except if they're already losing loyalty even with governor.

If you're at war, you can also conquer a city further back to move their defensive pressure and then give it back (erasing warmonger penalties) after their cities on your border flip to free cities.

 

[Disgustipated]

Run Bread and Circuses.

I always forget about this one, but I still have the bad habit of not building entertainment districts until late.

I flipped several cities in my peaceful Cree game (peaceful except me participating in an emergency that is) without bread and circuses. It helped I was in a golden age and the Mongols was in a normal age. I did use Armani with only the +2 loyalty towards your cities promotion. Other cities I wanted to flip I couldn't. I did get a former city state to flip to me, but I couldn't liberate it unfortunately.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Place Amani with Prestige and Emissary promotions to the nearest city state of your target neighbor.
Place all possible governors in boundary cities.
Place all policies with loyalty boost and amenity boost.
Target civs in Dark age while you are in Golden age.
Use spies with reduced mission time promotion.
Use policies that boosts spies.
Refuse trade of luxuries to the target civ.

Also, all of these at once if your target isn't in a worse age.

There really isn't an efficient way to flip Cities peacefully without investing in a lot of resources. Not like it matters much though. Loyalty's utility lies in curbing runaway warmonger AI's and forward-settling, which it does efficiently.

 

[Leyrann]

I just want to say, if the Olympics ever get added in any way, the Netherlands need to get a powerful boost for all Winter Olympics.

 

[God of Kings]

I just want to say, if the Olympics ever get added in any way, the Netherlands need to get a powerful boost for all Winter Olympics.

Oh, and either the Cree or Scotland needs to be able to construct curling rinks.

 

[leandrombraz]

Place all possible governors in boundary cities.
Place all policies with loyalty boost and amenity boost.

Correct me if I'm wrong but governors (aside from Amani) and happiness only help to keep your city loyal, it won't affect other civs, so placing governors in boundary cities is only necessary if your cities have loyalty issues, same for happiness. Only loyalty from population affect other Civs cities and from other sources that specifically say it does.

 

[Leyrann]

@Browd Should the Patch Notes thread be updated with the hotfix notes?

 

[Victoria]

NOTE: Governors do not appear to exert external pressure beyond Amani's 2 promotions. I have tested lots and seached for any hints they do in texts... nada

I just finished my first game, science victory. Considering how much stuff we have now to increase production and give a boost to space projects, I think they can double the cost of space projects. I got the Great Engineer Sergei Korolev ..., I didn't have enough time to use because I was producing the projects too fast lol

Space projects have changed hugely, please do not double them.
Korolevs huge production bonus can only now be used for one project. Chopping is nerfed in this way
The Royal Society tier 3 govt building allows you to expend one builder per turn toward a project in that city. The whole builder is expended and each charge is worth 3% (modifiable by the likes of Hong Kong)
No longer can you finish all science projects in one turn unless you had a max size city of trees and stone.
Science city states now give their science to buildings, library at 3 and uninat 6, quite a change.

So how do you actually reduce your neighbour's loyalty?

Higher population... more cities in range appear to be more powerful than more pop but both are valid.
Bread and Circus is twice as strong and a dark/golden era but you do need an entertainment district
Create starvation in the city by looting
Remove as many amenities from the target civ
Use a spy to temp reduce loyalty (poor choice unless its very weak), Create rebels (not bad), nullify governor (powerful)
Reduce pop or raze cities around the target that are of the same Civ
Use Amani's Emissary promotion

Place all possible governors in boundary cities.

As per the top, does not appear to have been designed this way

 

[Giskler]

I just want to say, if the Olympics ever get added in any way, the Netherlands need to get a powerful boost for all Winter Olympics.

This is honestly something Norway should get considering we've won the most medals combined in all Winter Olympics games held

 

[leandrombraz]

Bread and Circus is twice as strong and a dark/golden era but you do need an entertainment district

Did you teste Bread and Circus? I was using it but I wasn't a 100% sure about exactly what it was doing. It only increase the population loyalty, so it only affect that -20/+20 population range, right? It won't add loyalty on top of that 20. Also you get +20 once the project is finished, how does it works? It fix the population loyalty to +20? How much time the effect last?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I just want to say, if the Olympics ever get added in any way, the Netherlands need to get a powerful boost for all Winter Olympics.

Good way to add in canals to the game as well.

 

[Becephalus]

So is the AI still complete ass, or did they at least work on that a bit?

I find Civ6 unplayable due to the atrocious AI that makes single-player pointless, and I don't really enjoy it enough generally for hot seat. MP is not an option because I have kids.

I was hoping at some point in one of these expansions they would work on it some. Maybe change the game a bit to make it easier for the AI (fewer more expensive units so traffic jams are not an issue, getting rid of ranged/air units since the AI doesn't understand them, things like that).

I have no idea what they are thinking. Anyway please tell me it is time to come back?

 

[Victoria]

Did you teste Bread and Circus? I was using it but I wasn't a 100% sure about exactly what it was doing. It only increase the population loyalty, so it only affect that -20/+20 population range, right? It won't add loyalty on top of that 20. Also you get +20 once the project is finished, how does it works? It fix the population loyalty to +20? How much time the effect last?

Good question. I will test but I imagine it is pointless after +20

 

[Browd]

@Browd Should the Patch Notes thread be updated with the hotfix notes?

Hotfix notes added to stickied thread regarding the February 2018 patch notes.

 

[Leyrann]

So is the AI still complete ass, or did they at least work on that a bit?

I find Civ6 unplayable due to the atrocious AI that makes single-player pointless, and I don't really enjoy it enough generally for hot seat. MP is not an option because I have kids.

I was hoping at some point in one of these expansions they would work on it some. Maybe change the game a bit to make it easier for the AI (fewer more expensive units so traffic jams are not an issue, getting rid of ranged/air units since the AI doesn't understand them, things like that).

I have no idea what they are thinking. Anyway please tell me it is time to come back?

I don't know when you last played. If it's "after the 2017 fall patch", then it's minor improvements to the AI. If it's "at release", then you won't recognize the AI.

The AI knows what it's doing by now.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Has anybody played as Brazil or have had Brazil in the game and can spot what the Copacabana looks like? Just curious.

 

[Leyrann]

I could check, they might have one.

You'll have to wait at least until tomorrow though.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Has anybody played as Brazil or have had Brazil in the game and can spot what the Copacabana looks like? Just curious.

I'm also interested to see it. After I get done with the R&F civs/leaders Brazil is first on my list to check out changes to old civs.

 

[Giskler]

I'm also interested to see it. After I get done with the R&F civs/leaders Brazil is first on my list to check out changes to old civs.