[R&F] Rise and Fall Live Stream General Thread

[God of Kings]

As a chemist, I'd love a refinery alternative for the factory. Pure speculation: Grants less production than factory but bonus production for strategic resources in the city.

That would be interesting if stacked with Magnus.

 

[Cerilis]

Oh my. It looks even worse. I can't remember the last time I researched it. It's usually only if I've happened to get the boost by killing a unit with a Spearman. I don't usually build spearmen, though.



It doesn't look like anything to me. Something like a refinery, maybe?

Both of the mystery buildings kinda have a commerical vibe to me. That doesnt necessarily mean commercial hub, it could also be a city centre building that buffs trade routes in some way.

 

[Victoria]

How is a eureka less than 50%?.. is this a dark age thing?

 

[Giskler]

View attachment 486179
How is a eureka less than 50%?.. is this a dark age thing?

Could be.. or researching ahead of the current age malus thing?

 

[DeutschDachs]

Wonders go obsolete after a couple of eras. He raced through the tech tree so fast that he was in industrial by the time he razed the Dutch city.

Can this happen while you are building a wonder? I've sometimes been close to completion and suddenly my wonder disappears but I do not get a notification that someone else has built it. I often do build old wonders because they are cheap by that time

 

[leandrombraz]

View attachment 486179
How is a eureka less than 50%?.. is this a dark age thing?

I want to know about that too, I saw someone saying that it had to do with eras, if you're ahead of everyone your Eureka drops or something like that, I don't remember where I saw this post. If they do a livestream this week, that would be a good question to ask.

Whatever way it works, I'm glad they nerfed it in some way, that will slow down tech/civic progress a bit or at least make up for the added yields from new sources.

 

[steveg700]

As a chemist, I'd love a refinery alternative for the factory. Pure speculation: Grants less production than factory but bonus production for strategic resources in the city.

This hearkens back to one of the lessons the Civ V devs learned that they discarded in Civ VI.

They would eventually realize how ubiquitous terrain was, and introduced buildings that specifically rewarded the presence of certain features. Mints for gold and silver, stables for horses, monasteries for wine and incense (prior to becoming a worship belief building), and then there was the forge for iron, which is kind of what you are suggesting.

 

[Victoria]

I love the suggestion in @Giskler excellent screenshot of a taken city

"minimize foreign cities and citizens within 9 tiles"
OK, sounds like a plan!

Did anyone notice the stupid AI in Quill's game ... the AI civs happily took out the City States only to have them become revolting soon after.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

View attachment 486179
How is a eureka less than 50%?.. is this a dark age thing?

I don't remember where, but it has been said that Eureka and Inspirations now give only 40% (maybe because with China, governors and some dedications, Qin could go stright to 80% eurekas or inspirations for certains civs... maybe it was just a balance thing).
But I'm pretty confident that was said elsewhere.

 

[Duuk]

I love that our discussion of loyalty went completely sideways in a little over a week.

Last week after the devs live stream it was "oh god Loyalty is meaningless and won't be a problem for warmongering"

This week after the players stream "oh god loyalty is brutal and we'll constantly be fighting to keep our cities from flipping."

Looks like Firaxis balanced that one just about right

 

[DWilson]

I love that our discussion of loyalty went completely sideways in a little over a week.

Last week after the devs live stream it was "oh god Loyalty is meaningless and won't be a problem for warmongering"

This week after the players stream "oh god loyalty is brutal and we'll constantly be fighting to keep our cities from flipping."

Looks like Firaxis balanced that one just about right

Huh, I don't remember a Loyalty is meaningless complaint theme, but I may have been focusing on other things at the time...

 

[Wingednosering]

I love that our discussion of loyalty went completely sideways in a little over a week.

Last week after the devs live stream it was "oh god Loyalty is meaningless and won't be a problem for warmongering"

This week after the players stream "oh god loyalty is brutal and we'll constantly be fighting to keep our cities from flipping."

Looks like Firaxis balanced that one just about right

It's the first game of a new build and not all of these streamers are Deity players. Once the loyalty strategies become known, I'm pretty sure Loyalty will become trivial.

 

[WillowBrook]

View attachment 486179
How is a eureka less than 50%?.. is this a dark age thing?

It appears that techs ahead of the global era cost more while techs behind the global era cost less than the base cost. The eureka gives half the base cost no matter the era, so it's a smaller percentage of a tech in the next era.

(They haven't explicitly said this afaik, but it seems to make the most sense of what we've seen)

 

[Victoria]

Huh, I don't remember a Loyalty is meaningless complaint theme, but I may have been focusing on other things at the time...

Oh it was out there, I was on the meaningless side... sorry did say was. It was with regard to being a brutal warmonger and I must add that having a city flip to being Neutral is just fine, If need be, take some cities, have them flip Neutral then retake them once there is no longer foreign civilians nearby.

I am not often a brutal wargamer and would rather it was toned down so hoping this will do it but not convinced yet.

 

[Disgustipated]

I love that our discussion of loyalty went completely sideways in a little over a week.

Last week after the devs live stream it was "oh god Loyalty is meaningless and won't be a problem for warmongering"

This week after the players stream "oh god loyalty is brutal and we'll constantly be fighting to keep our cities from flipping."

hehe, yeah. Keep in mind Firaxis never did show any aggressive warmongering. They don't play like a lot of players play. I still haven't had a chance to check Drew's Mongolia game, I want to check that later.

 

[V. Soma]

Dear CivFanatics,
I have only so much time as to pick only one stream to watch.
Which one would you suggest?

 

[Victoria]

I still haven't had a chance to check Drew's Mongolia game, I want to check that later

Never watched him before so I did, Like Quill, a great talker but the show was more about amusement than value although it did give some insights into how not to take a civ when entering a dark age.
Serious Red fists and Chinese pressure.

 

[Giskler]

I asked Quill18 to lookup the yields of Zhangye Danxia in the Civilopedia and they are: " 2 Great General Points and 2 Great Merchant points if you own at least one tile." No screencap as he isn't streaming yet.

 

[Disgustipated]

Never watched him before so I did, Like Quill, a great talker but the show was more about amusement than value although it did give some insights into how not to take a civ when entering a dark age.
Serious Red fists and Chinese pressure.

Yeah I just checked it out, though the only video I saw was a 13 minute "recap", it doesn't go turn for turn. I'm not a big fan of his voice, I prefer Quill's voice. He does go more for amusement value. It's hard to evaluate exactly what was happening since he wasn't going turn by turn in the video. Obviously the dark age hurt bad. Expansion during the dark age seems problematic at best.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

What happens if you flip most of another continent to neutral and then just leave?