Rise And Rule Revisited (epic mod)

[Belofon]

In your BIQ, upgrade path of Swordsmen/Footknights is broken (swordsmen don't upgrade to MDI footknight flavors). I think this can be fixed by setting upgade path of Norse Axemen to English Footknight (currently Impi), as I've done myself.
Also, some ideas:

1. Immortals are too strong. Currently, they have 3 attack/defence and DB of 2. For comparison:
   1. Roman Legionaries: 2 defence, need Iron, no DB (same cost, attack and movement);
   2. Carthage NMs: 2 attack, no DB;
   3. Ethiopian Javelineers: have only 1 attack in exchange for DB of 3 (this is not enough, I think).
   • May be Immortals should cost 50 shields instead? Or 40, but without DB?
2. At the same time, I think that ancient horse units (up to HHs) are a way too expensive for their stats. While this can represent low effectiveness of chariots and horsemen without
   
   stirrups, this makes them less usefull and, due to this, less likely to be built (while their tech tree is already optional). May be they should cost 10 shields less, so they would have same cost efficiency as other units of their age?
3. Horse artillery units appear at time when all transport ships (galleons and clippers) have "foot units only" flag, thuse they can't be transported. So, what about making all HAs foot units?

And, of course, some unmentioned errors:

1. British Redcoats have their support flag off;
2. At the same time, French Musket Infantry have no bunus HP;
3. Anchient Elephant flavors don't have ignored terrain cost for forests and jungles.

​

 

[Civinator]

Belofon, thank you very much for your reports.

I temporarily took down the biqs in the first page of this thread and will have a look at your reports.

Giving Horse Artillery the foot units flag seems to be a good idea and from the Immortals, the DB can be taken away.
I think Horsemen have those costs since DyP and RAR, so there is no need to reduce the costs. These units can retreat.

- Support cost for British Redcoats were missing and are now fixed.
- The same for the +1HP of the French Musket Infantry.
- Movement bonus for Punic War Elephants and Asian War Elephants are added.

The upgrade chain for swordsmen is changed from Chinese Medival Infantry to English Footknight (instead of Early Janissary) and later from Lion Warrior to Early Janissary (instead of Impi).

The costs for the Immortal are raised to 35. The other values will stay. This has the advantage that the civilopedia must not be rewritten. Roman Legionaries have additional worker options and Carthage NMs and Ethiopian Javelineers have an additional HP.

 

[Civinator]

The RARR 1.7 biqs are now uploaded again to fix all the errors that were reported while playing the first version of those files and additionally to fix the errors and some of the suggestions, that were reported by Belofon after the first attempt to upload the new biqs.

The civers who downloaded the biqs at 15th May 2020 are humbly requested to download the new biqs again, as there are some (minor) changes in the new biqs.

You can find the new biqs and the new RARR folder at the first page of this thread.

 

[Gmelchett]

Wonderful that you are back, Civinator!
Two tiny bugs:

• In Civiliopedia, when you look up "Worker action" -> "Railroad", it says that you need to invent "High Explosives" in order to build railroads. It should be you need invent "Railroad" to build railroads
• I noticed that I can build one small wonder "National Coal Mine" per city with coal in its reach. Should it be like that? (Yes, I'm talking finished buildings, not the possibility to build it)

I'm using the original(I guess) 1.7 extended BIG, so maybe this is already fixed.

Overall, I must say that 1.7 is a very good improvement compared to 1.6. (And 1.6 was already excellent) Thank you all involved!!

 

[Civinator]

Wonderful that you are back, Civinator!
Two tiny bugs:

• In Civiliopedia, when you look up "Worker action" -> "Railroad", it says that you need to invent "High Explosives" in order to build railroads. It should be you need invent "Railroad" to build railroads
• I noticed that I can build one small wonder "National Coal Mine" per city with coal in its reach. Should it be like that? (Yes, I'm talking finished buildings, not the possibility to build it)

I'm using the original(I guess) 1.7 extended BIG, so maybe this is already fixed.

Overall, I must say that 1.7 is a very good improvement compared to 1.6. (And 1.6 was already excellent) Thank you all involved!!

Gmelchett, thank you very much for your kind words about RARR 1.7.

The error with the National Coal Mine (and many others) were fixed with the updated RARR 1.7 biqs. Here you can find a list with the fixed errors in the updated RARR 1.7 files.

Thank you very much for reporting the minor error in the Worker action" -> "Railroad". This error is noted for the next fix of RARR files, but this minor error alone is not enough to do another update of these files. I think in the last days we had enough of such updates.

 

[Gmelchett]

When colonizing a continent/island far away from your capital, the production is abyssal until you've gotten a forbidden/winter/summer palace there.
To speed up the process, I disband ships/troops there to gain shields.
What about adding a unit that is "building materials"? and it's sole purpose is to transport production shields between cities.

 

[Civinator]

When colonizing a continent/island far away from your capital, the production is abyssal until you've gotten a forbidden/winter/summer palace there.
To speed up the process, I disband ships/troops there to gain shields.
What about adding a unit that is "building materials"? and it's sole purpose is to transport production shields between cities.

Such an unit exists in RARR, but the AI cannot handle that option.

 

[Gmelchett]

Such an unit exists in RARR, but the AI cannot handle that option.

Thanks, but I was thinking about a land unit that you can build and use to transport shields. Even if the AI can't handle such a "build material" unit, as long as it doesn't build them it would be alright.

 

[Gmelchett]

Civiliopedia bug: The link to "Chichen Itza" in the Courthouse page is invalid.

 

[Civinator]

Civiliopedia bug: The link to "Chichen Itza" in the Courthouse page is invalid.

Thank you very much for reporting this (minor) error.

Thanks, but I was thinking about a land unit that you can build and use to transport shields. Even if the AI can't handle such a "build material" unit, as long as it doesn't build them it would be alright.

As you posted above, each existing normal land unit can do that job. Such an unit would only make sense, if its production costs would be less than the output in shields, when the unit is abondoned. This would be the case by autoproduced or enslaved units units with a high theoretical cost - but as the AI cannot handle the abandon action at the optimal place, I don´t see any need to include such an unit and as the AI cannot handle it, I consider the use of such an unit as next to cheating.

 

[ynot56]

I think you are correct in not providing a special unit. As you correctly point out, any unit would have that same effect.

 

[Ralkir]

So happy to see RAR alive and well after all these years! Just did a fresh install and played a game. One thing I noticed, I don't seem to be able to build the Great Lighthouse, even after researching sailing and building a harbor, and none of the AI seem to build it either. I checked in the editor and nothing seems out of the ordinary.

 

[ynot56]

I suspect you may now need a port for the GL.

 

[Civinator]

Ralkir, welcome at CFC!



Since RAR 1.04 (that was the base for RARR) the Great Lighthouse additionally has the flag to allow City Size Level 3, what unfortunately is not documented in the civilopedia. This flag is 'tricky', as buildings and wonders with that flag can only been built, when the population of the city has reached level 2 (in RARR 8 citizens). Earlier versions of RAR didn´t have that flag for the Great Lighthouse. Either the civilopedia should contain a hint to that additional flag of that wonder or that flag should be removed in the next version of the RARR biqs.

I tend to the solution to remove that flag of the Great Lighthouse with the next version of the RARR biqs.

 

[ynot56]

I am now in my 3rd game, the first with the 1.7 a biq, if you will and I have to say this mod is really great.

The only thing I have that is in any way shape or form a critique comes with the new small wonders. I love the addition of the small wonders, but I think some of them are too cheap. The only one that is egregious in this regard is the Cruiser Project. I agree that it shouldn't be as expensive as the Naval Academy, since the Naval Academy also increases movement. But the cruiser hulls are on par with the base ship from the Naval Academy, so a price on the order of half the Naval Academy seems appropriate. That is several times its current cost.

 

[Civinator]

ynot56, thank you very much for your kind words about RARR1.7 , so you have contributed a lot to the current version with your great error reports and suggestions.

About those "SWs": For SWs like the cruiser project a cost/output calculation in my eyes is the wrong way to handle the worth of them for the mod. SWs with such an extreme cheap cost are suited, that the units they autoproduce should appear on the map as quick as possible, as they contribute a nice addition to the game. If a SW like the cruiser project would have a construction cost of about half of the Naval Academy, the construction of that SW and the first time of the autoproduction of an unit some turns later would happen long after that unit would be obsolete. The SW serves to add an unit in the proper time to the game, that otherwise would not appear and therefore it must be as cheap as possible. In my eyes, the cheap construction costs for that SW are no advantage for the human player, as the AI civs will build them very quick, too, when they have researched the proper tech.

... and I love these protected and armored cruisers in the game just in time, especially when playing on the worldmap.

 

[Caladin00]

Love this mod, but I do have one complaint to this point...
Holy horsehocky barbarian riders are ridiculously overpowered. There's no unit that stands a chance against them in the first era if they aren't high-tier spearmen with a defensive bonus. I just had an uprising near one of my walled and very heavily defended cities and lost 2.5k gold because of 4/3/2 spam. Is there a way I can change their stat files to nerf them down a bit without having to restart my game? I'd be ok with the statline if these guys were a bit more rare and didn't seem to breed like rabbits.

 

[ynot56]

Re: Caladin

When you create any particular game, you can adjust the level of barbarian activity. I usually use the normal or standard setting, it appears as if you are on a higher setting.

Re Civinator

I understand you wanting to have the cruisers get deployed (so do I the Armored Cruiser is very attractive). Its just that for this last game I played, I was able to build the Cruiser Project in one turn. It comes half an age or more after the Naval Academy, so presumably, the cities that would be building the SW would have proportionately higher production (especially with railroads and other city improvements like factories). A doubling or tripling of the Cruiser Project cost would not significantly change the value of the SW.

 

[Caladin00]

Re: ynot56

When you create any particular game, you can adjust the level of barbarian activity. I usually use the normal or standard setting, it appears as if you are on a higher setting.


Yeah I know about that. I set it to be random but I wasn't expecting to encounter a stack of death of barbarian riders that can wipe out anyone and everyone they face.
I'm asking if there's a way to change the stats of the unit itself (like lowering attack to 3 or 2) so that it's more tolerable for both myself and AI civilizations.

 

[Takeo]

Is there a way I can change their stat files to nerf them down a bit without having to restart my game?

Your current game would have to be played out as is, cause game rules can't be changed once a game is started.

The barbarian stats in the core biq for RARR would have to be changed, then new games could be created with the 'nerfed' barbs.