Rise And Rule Revisited (epic mod)

[Civinator]

As for attack values of ACs... well, I think that they were made such that they are lower than defence values of respective tanks (early ACs - WW1 tanks, later ACs - WW2 tanks). While at this point early ACs stats are OK, I can agree that attack value of later ACs isn't that impressive at all - IMHO, a value of, let's say, 12 will be better.

However, once tanks come around, there is no reason to buy AC's anymore, the cost/benefit is not ... attractive (although I usually have plenty of AC's from upgrades of Calvary)...In my opinion, an attack value of something between 10 and 12 for the early armored car and an attack value of between 12 and 14 for the later armored car would be more appropriate values.

I will reflect about those stats for WW2 ACs and especially about reducing the upgrade costs for WW1 and WW2 ACs in the next version of RARR.

 

[Node60]

What was added by the first not well known inofficial Russian expansion to Civ 3 called Atlantes (or something like that)?

I came across the extension "Path of the Atlantes 2" (like this). As far as I remember, it was a translation of some version of RAR into Russian, plus the Tibetans, it seems, were replaced by a new race - the Atlantes.

 

[Civinator]

I came across the extension "Path of the Atlantes 2" (like this). As far as I remember, it was a translation of some version of RAR into Russian, plus the Tibetans, it seems, were replaced by a new race - the Atlantes.

Node60, this is very interesting. The Tibetans are in RAR and in RARR, too -but what was the setting of the Atlantes ?

 

[Belofon]

Node60, this is very interesting. The Tibetans are in RAR and in RARR, too -but what was the setting of the Atlantes ?

They were MIL/COM/SCI, but started without any tech (also they had Mediterrainean culture group and, unlike other MIL civs, they used default warriors instead of champions). Otherwise they were identical to Tibetians (even with same leader, UU and cities).
Actually, I do even have bic of this mod (I think they perfectly run with RAR main files) - unfortunately, it is almost completely tranclated into Russian, so default (unpatched) Civilization would depict almost all of its sentences as meaningless lines of letters...

I came across the extension "Path of the Atlantes 2" (like this). As far as I remember, it was a translation of some version of RAR into Russian, plus the Tibetans, it seems, were replaced by a new race - the Atlantes

In fact, prior to this extension there was another one - Path of the Atlantes (changed DyP). I don't know too much about it (though I have bic of this mod as well), but, if I remember correctly, it had awful translaition, changed Russian city list and Belarus civilization (with Belarus partisan UU) instead of Sioux.

 

[Civinator]

Belofon, thank you very much for the additional information about the Atlantes settings.

As there is no difference of this civ in leader, unique unit, special buildings and techs compared to the Tibetan civ, I think a special biq with the Atlantes civ is not needed - but nevertheless this information is quite interesting for the history of this mod.

 

[ynot56]

Another minor nit. It appears to me as if the Galleon does not bombard. Anyway, my Galleon couldn't bombard a privateer, but the ship of the line could.

 

[Civinator]

Another minor nit. It appears to me as if the Galleon does not bombard. Anyway, my Galleon couldn't bombard a privateer, but the ship of the line could.

The transport ships - among them the Galleon - only have defensive bombardment. The sailing warships in the age of gunpowder - among them the War Galleon - have offensive bombardment. The Ship of the Line of course is a warship, too.

 

[ynot56]

Ah! I saw the bombardment and thought it was also offensive. It is weird since the Galleon does have the ability to attack, unlike say the clipper. I think the ability to attack but not bombard for a ship of the galleon's era, is ... inconsistent?

 

[Civinator]

Ah! I saw the bombardment and thought it was also offensive. It is weird since the Galleon does have the ability to attack, unlike say the clipper. I think the ability to attack but not bombard for a ship of the galleon's era, is ... inconsistent?

ynot56, here I have another opinion. Please don´t forget, that ships with an offensive bombard setting can bombard landimprovements and coastal cities. The main focus of normal galleons was to transport masses of goods and not to attack landterrain. Transport galleons are no war galleons.

 

[ynot56]

That is absolutely fine. I am just saying that it surprised me, because of the reasons I stated. I have no problem with the setting how they are.

 

[PhilB]

I don't know if it's a bug or not, and what was the problem with the Celts on a previous version of the World map, but they seem to be unable to expand.
On my last 3 world map games, they build Dublin, and despite building boats quite early, don't even step in Great Britain, not to mention the rest of the uncharted world. Instead they build dozens and dozens of units (which can be use as a punching ball to create elite units and leaders by the way)
Is there anything that can be done for these "pathetic Celts" ?

 

[Civinator]

I don't know if it's a bug or not, and what was the problem with the Celts on a previous version of the World map, but they seem to be unable to expand.
On my last 3 world map games, they build Dublin, and despite building boats quite early, don't even step in Great Britain, not to mention the rest of the uncharted world. Instead they build dozens and dozens of units (which can be use as a punching ball to create elite units and leaders by the way)
Is there anything that can be done for these "pathetic Celts" ?

Here you can read the story about the Celts: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rise-and-rule-revisited-epic-mod.549166/page-52#post-15817748
When there is the time, they will be removed completely from the worldmap.

 

[PhilB]

Ok sorry, I missed that part. Conquering Dublin and it's 30+ garrisonned units is a cool in-game challenge
Thanks for the answer !

 

[Belofon]

As there is no difference of this civ in leader, unique unit, special buildings and techs compared to the Tibetan civ, I think a special biq with the Atlantes civ is not needed - but nevertheless this information is quite interesting for the history of this mod.

By the way: while mod from video was named after Atlantes, it had its own civ with unique settings - Belarus (replaced Sioux). This civ was more like some kind of April Fool joke, but it had:

• Unique leader - Daddy Grygorych aka President Lukashenko (used Ghandi graphics - though, IMHO, Bismark graphics would be more fitting);
• Unique city list;
• Unique millitary leaders (though most of these people were actually Poles). No scientific leaders, though;
• IND/COM/SCI traits (and all opening teches of these traits, as well as classic unique Being tech);
• Unique UU - Belarus Partisan (replaced Partisan; it was 20 shields cheaper and had +2 defence and +1 bombard str as well as default UU bonus of 1 HP - however, it was unable to start Golden Age);
• Unique Civilopedia description (like Atlantes);
• Unique diplo quotes, though I'm not quite sure about it (for example, when asking for peace, their leader was saying something like: "NOOO! Belarus is invinsible!")

But let's speak about RARR.

• Not sure if this wasn't already solved, but F6 states that Naval Aviation needs Sonar, while actualy it needs Radar. If this tech indeed should require Radar, then Radar requirement for Advanced Flight isn't necessary, as it already needs Naval Aviation.

Also, some funny observations made during the game (though I think they are shared with default Civilization):
1. After collapse of Constitutional Monarchy in China due to war weariness F7 depicted its wonder (Magna Carta) as constructed in 0 AD in latest built city of some other civ (maybe the one which have captured the original city of that wonder - not sure about it). It's owner, though, was still depicted as China.

2. After renogiating peace deal which included RoP with one of civs F6 displayed that civ as a hostile civ with RoP. By the way: renegotiating peace with hotseat player results in declaration of war to that player.

 

[Civinator]

Belofon, thank you very much for the additional information about 'Atlantes' and for reporting another error in the RARR biq.

RARR has hundreds of such 'unique units', that can have different values, but are not triggering a Golden Age (as the 'starts Golden Age' trigger in the editor is not activated for them - what in RARR is absolutely intended).

The prerequisite tech for Naval Aviation will be set to Sonar instead of Radar in the next version of the RARR biq. The graphics of the current RARR techtree are correct, but not the setting for that tech in editor.

Your both screenshots about the 'Wonders of The World' and the 'Foreign Advisor' are interesting, too - so at present I don´t can explain them. At present I
don´t think, that this is a special problem of RARR, but a problem of C3C, that is triggered by a haunted gnome in the programation of Civ 3.

 

[Twingrey]

Thank you, Civinator!
I didn't feel like I could get enough footage of the actual RARR gameplay, to describe how it feels over the original, for me at least; instead I focused on what the games have to offer - what they had to offer before, and what they offer now; what vanilla Civilization 3 can offer potentially, but does not, and how RARR fixes that in my eyes.
I have seen your ToT science fiction mod many times, it has been around for quite some time, right? I remember it coming up in many of my searches back in the days I first hit the internet (around 2008).
As for "Path of AtlantEs", the only things those Russian guys added to DyP were the intro movie and renaming Tibet race to "Atlantes", also ruining most of the Civilopedia links along the way. Oh, and they removed any mention of DyP they could find in there - I found out from the game files that it was basically stolen DyP mod, in one of the few instances where they didn't erase the mentions properly. On my CD, there was no such thing as Belarus race, by the way.
The level that is seen in the video from AoW SM is from my old save, and I am 100% sure it is from randomly generated map.
As a matter of fact, WOW! I never knew about TOTPP, will check it out, thanks!

 

[Belofon]

Bug report for RARR:

1. Stealth attack target lists for storm troopers and commandos (and maybe other SA units as well) are incomplete: for example, commandos can't target Meso cavalry and troopers can't target jeeps/motoscouts/flaks (not sure which one exactly, but may be all the three), but can target transports!
2. Not sure if this is an error, but sometimes policemen don't seem to reduce corruption (at least in shields).

Also, few bugs of engine mentioned during the game:

1. A side-effect of bug I've mentioned before (RoP with hostile civ): renegotiated peace deal included not only RoP, but also trade embargo. Now both of these deals are permanent, since they somehow continue to function while "Active elements" window doesn't display them and, due to this, they can't be broken!
2. If city/airfield with fighter is captured after fighter was order to do a recon mission, recon area will be permanently visible.

On my CD, there was no such thing as Belarus race, by the way.

It is possible that this civ was exclusive for some CD editions or even only one. After all, this civ was more like some kind of April Fool's joke and I think that it was most likely added by CD publisher for fun.

 

[tjs282]

Not sure if this is an error, but sometimes policemen don't seem to reduce corruption (at least in shields).

This is true of the epic game game as well. Basically, (if I've understood correctly, which is not guaranteed!) because of the way that corruption is calculated, towns can technically have >100% corruption, but since the game caps 'visible' corruption at 90%, you don't see any of that 'excess' corruption.

But Policemen act to reduce the actual corruption-value, not the capped value. So a single cop will only visibly reduce corruption in a town which has not already exceeded the corruption-cap of 90%.

(Or you need to assign a sufficient number of cops to bring the actual corruption-value below the 90% cap, before you will see any effect).

A side-effect of bug I've mentioned before (RoP with hostile civ): renegotiated peace deal included not only RoP, but also trade embargo. Now both of these deals are permanent, since they somehow continue to function while "Active elements" window doesn't display them and, due to this, they can't be broken!

If a peace deal is tied to any other agreements, then you will need to declare war again (or be declared upon) to break all those deals.

 

[Civinator]

Twingrey, thank you very much for answering my questions and giving us more information about AtlantEs.

 

[Civinator]

Bug report for RARR:

1. Stealth attack target lists for storm troopers and commandos (and maybe other SA units as well) are incomplete: for example, commandos can't target Meso cavalry and troopers can't target jeeps/motoscouts/flaks (not sure which one exactly, but may be all the three), but can target transports!
2. Not sure if this is an error, but sometimes policemen don't seem to reduce corruption (at least in shields).

Also, few bugs of engine mentioned during the game:

1. A side-effect of bug I've mentioned before (RoP with hostile civ): renegotiated peace deal included not only RoP, but also trade embargo. Now both of these deals are permanent, since they somehow continue to function while "Active elements" window doesn't display them and, due to this, they can't be broken!
2. If city/airfield with fighter is captured after fighter was order to do a recon mission, recon area will be permanently visible.

Belofon, thank you very much for reporting the error about the target lists of some units with stealth attack. As far as I see, stealth attack was added to those units with RAR 1.04 without a proper list what kind of units should be targets for the stealth attack of those units. A specific list of unit types, that can be the target for those stealth attacks must be figured out and the missing target units must be added to the settings of those units - this can be a very timeconsuming task when checking thousands of units if they are proper target units for the each one of the units with stealth attack, especially when considering the disrupted structure of units of this mod in the editor, due to the 'onion-skins' of DyP, DyP2, RAR, RAR 1.04 and RARR). An easy solution would be to remove the stealth attack option again from those units.

As tjs282 pointed out, the problems with policemen and negotiated peace deals aren´t special problems of RARR, but problems of C3C. tjs282, thank you very much for answering those topics. As far as I remember here were no chances done compared to the standard settings in C3C.

With airfields there can happen really strange occurrences. I reported about the sharing of an airfield by different civs in this thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/airfield-sharing.430541/ Especially interesting in that thread in my eyes is the post of Lanzelot about airfields. Your observation is another report about strange things that can happen with airfields - and Belofon you are right, that this is no special problem of RARR, but a problem of C3C.