Rise from Erebus 1.30 Bug Thread

[EugeneStyles]

Jotnar are being redesigned anyway.

On the second.... For now, up one flavor by 1 point. There are no buildings that have equal flavors in the base game, IIRC. Probably shouldn't be, for that matter, want each building to have a clear use. Most are 5/2, and so on.

Oh yeah, I fixed it in my modmod a while ago, no problem. Just letting you know. Took me a while to figure out why my buildings weren't showing up. I think there are a couple buildings in the base game with two equal flavors, but they aren't buildable so it doesn't matter. Like (searching...) Stonefire Forge.

 

[odalrick]

Honestly, the whole mechanism may need to be rethought. We can balance so it works right with no bonus xp, but then things like apprenticeship get thrown in and make it too easy.

I thought the was the whole point of having a barb chance per turn along with free xp.

As Amurites building Adepts that can instantly turn into Mages isn't that hard: A few mana types, some civics and ten xp shouldn't be far off. This gives Tya Kiri an in game way to mitigate her major flaw.

 

[Calavente]

odalrick
it also means that 'till you have sorcery, you're screwed : no apprenctices for you.

 

[Valkrionn]

I thought the was the whole point of having a barb chance per turn along with free xp.

As Amurites building Adepts that can instantly turn into Mages isn't that hard: A few mana types, some civics and ten xp shouldn't be far off. This gives Tya Kiri an in game way to mitigate her major flaw.

Possibly. My issue is more that if we balance it correctly with 0 free xp in mind, then it becomes too easy to get past it (and yes, I'm looking at actual numbers as I say this! ).

Besides, it may not fit the plans for the Amurite traits.

 

[odalrick]

odalrick
it also means that 'till you have sorcery, you're screwed : no apprenctices for you.

True, but no one else has Mages until Sorcery either. (Apart from other Amurites (Tower Mages) and Shearim (Moebius Witches); assuming the trait is fixed.)

You also have a goodish chance to get magic on regular units. They can fill in for Adepts until you can get some that last.

In short: I like the trait. There are some drawbacks unlike most other traits, but they can be managed and make for a richer playing experience.

Possibly. My issue is more that if we balance it correctly with 0 free xp in mind, then it becomes too easy to get past it (and yes, I'm looking at actual numbers as I say this! ).

How about removing the xp and barbarian per turn and institute a barbarian chance and xp for casting spells? Make the barbarian chance scale with current xp, so that casting spells when near 10 xp is the highest. The most advanced students have the knowledge to overload on spells but lack the wisdom not to.

Besides, it may not fit the plans for the Amurite traits.

First Xivan T'nava, now Tya Kiri; is no interesting leader safe?

 

[Valkrionn]

I never said she'd be removed. We just have plans for the Amurites; I'm not sure her current trait fits those plans.

Hell, you should know what they are, you have team forum access.

 

[Calavente]

What I understood of the actual trait/promotion is that an adpet is sure to become a barb if not upgraded (sorcery)
as even 1% chance for an unlimited time means that in the end all adepts become barb.

-the promotion disapearing after upgrad to wizard means that you have no gain of the trait for the upgraded unit : the wizard is no more powerful than another amurite wizard.
-being amurite, once you have sorcery, you'll likely have insta-mages.
the +1xp/turn is not really interesting as it is limited to 14xp and cave of the ancestor gives you at least 3, and with a mean of 5-8, a command post gives 2, apprenticeship gives 2.
No real need of +1xp/turn until 14 after sorcery : it is only a 4xp gained quicker, maybe even less.
All that means tha the interest of the trait is therefore limited to before getting sorcery : getting chanelling II units + quick xp.

but the drawback is too strong : all your adept disapear into barbs until you get sorcery.
so it means that you have no real gain until you gain sorcery and then you have no more use of the trait.


what would be good would be if the %barb promotion disapears at lvl4 and not at wizard upgrade.
then you'll have a real interest :
hoping to get some adepts with enough xp that they do not become barb.

or
another solution would be for the promotion to have also a chance to disappear :
5% chance turning barb
5% chances that the promotion disapear => the unit never becomes a barb.

so in a mean of 10 turns you'll be sure of what happens to your unit :
-definitly barb or definitly yours.
(or 10/5 or 5/10 or...whatever)

 

[Sjru]

Possibly. My issue is more that if we balance it correctly with 0 free xp in mind, then it becomes too easy to get past it (and yes, I'm looking at actual numbers as I say this! ).

Besides, it may not fit the plans for the Amurite traits.

What I understood of the actual trait/promotion is that an adpet is sure to become a barb if not upgraded (sorcery)
as even 1% chance for an unlimited time means that in the end all adepts become barb.

-the promotion disapearing after upgrad to wizard means that you have no gain of the trait for the upgraded unit : the wizard is no more powerful than another amurite wizard.
-being amurite, once you have sorcery, you'll likely have insta-mages.
the +1xp/turn is not really interesting as it is limited to 14xp and cave of the ancestor gives you at least 3, and with a mean of 5-8, a command post gives 2, apprenticeship gives 2.
No real need of +1xp/turn until 14 after sorcery : it is only a 4xp gained quicker, maybe even less.
All that means tha the interest of the trait is therefore limited to before getting sorcery : getting chanelling II units + quick xp.

but the drawback is too strong : all your adept disapear into barbs until you get sorcery.
so it means that you have no real gain until you gain sorcery and then you have no more use of the trait.


what would be good would be if the %barb promotion disapears at lvl4 and not at wizard upgrade.
then you'll have a real interest :
hoping to get some adepts with enough xp that they do not become barb.

or
another solution would be for the promotion to have also a chance to disappear :
5% chance turning barb
5% chances that the promotion disapear => the unit never becomes a barb.

so in a mean of 10 turns you'll be sure of what happens to your unit :
-definitly barb or definitly yours.
(or 10/5 or 5/10 or...whatever)

Why just don't replace the % barb, with a % of a special enraged, that, instead of normal wandering there like crazy, this enraged would engage your own units using a method similar to those Doviello's challenges.

On a side note: Again, Jotnar Settlers shouldn't be able to attack!!!, main reason Jotnar AI doesn't expand any further than 2 cities.

EDIT: About Doviello... Are animal spawn related CTD's fixed?

 

[Valkrionn]

What I understood of the actual trait/promotion is that an adpet is sure to become a barb if not upgraded (sorcery)
as even 1% chance for an unlimited time means that in the end all adepts become barb.

-the promotion disapearing after upgrad to wizard means that you have no gain of the trait for the upgraded unit : the wizard is no more powerful than another amurite wizard.
-being amurite, once you have sorcery, you'll likely have insta-mages.
the +1xp/turn is not really interesting as it is limited to 14xp and cave of the ancestor gives you at least 3, and with a mean of 5-8, a command post gives 2, apprenticeship gives 2.
No real need of +1xp/turn until 14 after sorcery : it is only a 4xp gained quicker, maybe even less.
All that means tha the interest of the trait is therefore limited to before getting sorcery : getting chanelling II units + quick xp.

but the drawback is too strong : all your adept disapear into barbs until you get sorcery.
so it means that you have no real gain until you gain sorcery and then you have no more use of the trait.


what would be good would be if the %barb promotion disapears at lvl4 and not at wizard upgrade.
then you'll have a real interest :
hoping to get some adepts with enough xp that they do not become barb.

or
another solution would be for the promotion to have also a chance to disappear :
5% chance turning barb
5% chances that the promotion disapear => the unit never becomes a barb.

so in a mean of 10 turns you'll be sure of what happens to your unit :
-definitly barb or definitly yours.
(or 10/5 or 5/10 or...whatever)

One important thing wrong with your analysis.

It is not useless once you have mages. As I have said, the blocking promotion carries with it a free Twincast effect, which stacks with the regular twincast; All your mages will have twincast, and at level 10 you can have triplecast. That is in no way useless.

That said, level 4 would be better than t3, yes, as it would make it useful prior to Sorcery.

Why just don't replace the % barb, with a % of a special enraged, that, instead of normal wandering there like crazy, this enraged would engage your own units using a method similar to those Doviello's challenges.

On a side note: Again, Jotnar Settlers shouldn't be able to attack!!!, main reason Jotnar AI doesn't expand any further than 2 cities.

EDIT: About Doviello... Are animal spawn related CTD's fixed?

Your suggestion would be incredibly complex. Will not happen.

Now, I have a question for you. Please tell me, why do you feel the need to ask the same question numerous times? I've lost count of the number of times we've said that the Jotnar are being redesigned, or that the issue with Animal spawning has been fixed, or that X issue is fixed, or that Y issue is fixed.

 

[Sjru]

Now, I have a question for you. Please tell me, why do you feel the need to ask the same question numerous times? I've lost count of the number of times we've said that the Jotnar are being redesigned, or that the issue with Animal spawning has been fixed, or that X issue is fixed, or that Y issue is fixed.

Is because I'm waiting for an answer, and I believe that I have to post again if the previous post I made falls back or is forgotten.
Sorry if it does annoy you...

 

[Jarwy]

Shearim (Moebius Witches)

I feel that these critters are well balanced. They start with random magic and several levels that made it slow to gain, say; a fireball. I mostly get useless flaming eyes from my gates anyways.

 

[odalrick]

I never said she'd be removed. We just have plans for the Amurites; I'm not sure her current trait fits those plans.

If her trait is removed, then she is removed. She may be replaced by a new leader with the same name, art and outlook; but it will be a new leader.

Now a redesign of her trait is entirely in order, but the flavour of powerful unreliable mages must be preserved. I do hope you make her more powerful and reckless rather than reduce the disadvantages.

 

[Calavente]

valk
ohoh... I forgot (read it but forgot it instantly) about the twincast effect
so it is not a worthless trait after sorcery.
but no adept until sorcery is weak.

EDIT :
bug or design ?
I had a spellsword with the 3shards, I WB gave him mountainering for 1 turn so he gets onto the guardian of pristin pass.

I casted the spell and lo. hop, my lvl 13 champion was transformed into a lvl 13 tower mage... with the threeforce promotion.
I couldn't see the +1 +culture, +science .. in the cities, but why not, I may have looked at a wrong place + the civilopedia says "+2 stars"... what is a "star" in a city?

So, needless to say, I loaded back, didn't give mountainering, and kept my three shards...

then IMO,
the treeforce is less interesting than having the three shards (well, in fact it depends on what is a "star").
-blitz + immune to FS + commander effects on one, very powerful if you don't have Orthus axe, and nice even with it,
-2 per dead... weak but why not, all shards can not be as powerful.
-+1:strengh: +25% xp per combat, +20% heal .. very powerful

and you have what : treeforce : civilization effect, interesting if you have many cities, low effect on the unit having it, + sacrificing the unit with it (high level unit to get mountainering) into an useless fort commander (if you go on the mountain, you can claim the fort without even having any shard... so triforce doesn't even give you the fort)

 

[Valkrionn]

If her trait is removed, then she is removed. She may be replaced by a new leader with the same name, art and outlook; but it will be a new leader.

Now a redesign of her trait is entirely in order, but the flavour of powerful unreliable mages must be preserved. I do hope you make her more powerful and reckless rather than reduce the disadvantages.

Oh, I will try to preserve the flavor of the trait even if it is changed. It would not be a completely new trait. The issue is it needs to fit into the three tier system.

valk
ohoh... I forgot (read it but forgot it instantly) about the twincast effect
so it is not a worthless trait after sorcery.
but no adept until sorcery is weak.

EDIT :
bug or design ?
I had a spellsword with the 3shards, I WB gave him mountainering for 1 turn so he gets onto the guardian of pristin pass.

I casted the spell and lo. hop, my lvl 13 champion was transformed into a lvl 13 tower mage... with the threeforce promotion.
I couldn't see the +1 +culture, +science .. in the cities, but why not, I may have looked at a wrong place + the civilopedia says "+2 stars"... what is a "star" in a city?

So, needless to say, I loaded back, didn't give mountainering, and kept my three shards...

then IMO,
the treeforce is less interesting than having the three shards (well, in fact it depends on what is a "star").
-blitz + immune to FS + commander effects on one, very powerful if you don't have Orthus axe, and nice even with it,
-2 per dead... weak but why not, all shards can not be as powerful.
-+1:strengh: +25% xp per combat, +20% heal .. very powerful

and you have what : treeforce : civilization effect, interesting if you have many cities, low effect on the unit having it, + sacrificing the unit with it (high level unit to get mountainering) into an useless fort commander (if you go on the mountain, you can claim the fort without even having any shard... so triforce doesn't even give you the fort)

Design that is converted, bug that you can claim it without needing the shard (Should not be able to do this!).

Stars are free experience. All units should gain 2 free xp throughout your empire when built.

 

[Calavente]

well, in fact,
I went near the pristine pass,
the three gargoyles appeared, and in the inter-turn, they summoned a fort-commander.
Then they sacrificed themselves on me and the shards fell on the mountain.
I WB-gave mountainering on the spellsword, killed the fort commander, claimed the pristine pass with a tower-mage and went on to claim the shards.
So I could claim it without needing the shard, only because the gargoyles did it before.

 

[Valkrionn]

well, in fact,
I went near the pristine pass,
the three gargoyles appeared, and in the inter-turn, they summoned a fort-commander.
Then they sacrificed themselves on me and the shards fell on the mountain.
I WB-gave mountainering on the spellsword, killed the fort commander, claimed the pristine pass with a tower-mage and went on to claim the shards.
So I could claim it without needing the shard, only because the gargoyles did it before.

No, it would have been claimable regardless. Oversight from the new fort-claiming system.

 

[Zetner]

Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but:

Last night I played a game as Illians, I was ready for the war of all time, I completed "The Draw", but wasn't able to do my ascension...?

I was playing as Auric, I had the Auric-unit in my capital where I was trying to make the ascension - this city was also the holy city of the white hand... The only ritual I hadn't done, was the one that put Frozen into the world...

Also, yes, I had Omnisciense, and all the tech-reqs..

No idea what was wrong - any ideas out there?

 

[black_imperator]

it is known that the ascension ritual is bugged. It will be fixed next version.

 

[Sarisin]

My first 1.30 game playing as Luchuirp.

I think the Mud Golems used to be the best/fastest builders in the game. However, in 1.30 they seem very slow.

I had no reference to compare except my last game when it seemed the normal Workers were much faster.

Now, those Workers were able to have those Skill promotions and had them.

However, I don't think the Mud Golem can gain promotions to boost their speed.

Have the Mud Golems (who take longer to build) fallen behind normal Workers in speed in building improvements?

Thanks

 

[EugeneStyles]

However, I don't think the Mud Golem can gain promotions to boost their speed.

Have the Mud Golems (who take longer to build) fallen behind normal Workers in speed in building improvements?

I feel like they have. Mud Golems have a speed of 150 compared to normal Worker's 100. However, the Worker catches up fairly quickly with Worker promotions. I might be the wrong one to judge, since I doubled the effect of Worker promos on my game because of the too-slow worker balancing (which will be adjusted in 1.31). However, even with +25% per worker promo, it only takes 2 to equal a Mud Golem and 3 to exceed it.

In my mod (adding the Myu civilization), I added +50% workrate to Accelerate (Force I), because I wanted that spell to be useful to my civ (and since it already boosts golems and siege, why not boost workrate for the one golem that it applies to?). It would also be useful to Luchuirp, so I hope it will be added to base RifE at some point. Luchuirp don't start with Force mana, but Accelerate is already useful to them because of the move bonus for all of their golems...

Honestly, I'm not sure that that boost to Accelerate is enough to balance Mud Golems - maybe their cost should just be lowered? Regular workers cost 75, but they use food so it goes faster (and on the downside, halt your city growth while they build), whereas Mud Golems cost 100.