Rise of the Pasha [K-Mod]

[lymond]

Yeah, I don't think vassaling her is an option. Never even considered it. Extorting techs is another matter.

I love whales in Maoi cities, but that city is just too bad already. I'd rather make a good city better like Istanbul, than a very crap city just crappy.

 

[Cam_H]

Vassalising Bouboulina was being discussed around the time we secured Feudalism. I'm glad we're on the 'same page' on the option not to vassal her.

I'm fine with Maoi not going to the proposed icy Copper-Whales-Fur city. Istanbul sits pretty comfortably with me, although I've got it in mind as a second farm, which (if so) means most of those water tiles won't be worked for much of the time. Ligurian is looking like another option for Maoi.

Re-thinking Elephantine ... maybe a Forge now for a faster National Epic + Courthouse build, plus the Engineer slot, is the way to go.

I doubt this is a real concern, but 'someone' (I assume Bouboulina) twice stole from our treasury during my turnset, and as such I'd be happy to run down our treasury to a balance of 'say' 80 (in case of events) unless there's a plan to do something with the funds (e.g. unit upgrade, cash gift, etc.) just to avoid a repeat of this espionage action.

Just so you know, I've donated $20 to karadoc for K-Mod via PayPal by way of supporting his efforts on behalf of the roster.

 

[·Imhotep·]

Had a look at the save. My thoughts:

1. Athens: I want that city...this will be a powerhouse! We could cancel the NE in Elephantine, get the fail gold and set it up there. Though Elephantine is a good enough spot anyway.
2. I'll declare in 5 to get more units in our border cities. This will be 3 turns for walking to Athens - shoulds be able to capture it in my TS. Of course will use the conveniently laid down route to Athens over the mountains and the forest for max defense bonus.
3. Yes to Moai in Istanbul. I'd rather make a strong site even stronger than a crap one mediocre. Istanbul will be a nice all purpose city...
4. PYYYYYYYYYYRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5. Readjust tiles in Thebes as the whipping unhappiness decreases. Take over cottages.
6. Grow Helopolis to happy cap, afterwards pumping units at full prod.
7. Settle double-fur-copper-whales
8. Don't cap Bouboulina
9. Readjust espionage spending

Anything else? Going to play tomorrow. Btw. any Baseball fans on the roster?

 

[lymond]

any Baseball fans on the roster?

Lifelong Braves fan here

 

[·Imhotep·]

Ok, your Braves just homered against my Phillies

 

[Cam_H]

All these points raised before, however;

Prepare a city (Forge) for the Taj Mahal ... I like Edirne.

Spread Hinduism ... I like Memphis as a Hindu Missionary pump.

Build Workers ... I'd grow Bursa to 10 pop and improve more tiles first, and then churn them (and Settlers if we must) out of here.

Spawnbust the south for preventing both land and sea Barbarian units.

While we're in the Caste System, use Artists for the first border pop in new cities.

While not needing to be addressed this turnset, I wouldn't mind if we discussed victory condition options.

Athens is a very, very nice city, but its pool is very muddy, and I have concerns about using it as the site for the National Epic.

If in doubt, build a Forge.​

Sorry - not much help on the baseball. An unfortunate weekend on the Australian Rules Football front however.

 

[vranasm]

imo we should get hindu into Nappy and switch him for some tech...

 

[lymond]

Ok, your Braves just homered against my Phillies

You can probably imagine that I'm not a big fan of the Philthies Braves will probably find a way to lose.

Did not realize Baseball was popular in Germany, and I've been to Munich a couple of times in recent years.

 

[lymond]

pool is very muddy

well, if the idea here is to get golden ages, a muddy GP pool is really not such a bad thing really

We might consider spreading Tao to Napster and switching to it sometime later. I'm not keen on Nap and Sal getting chummy. However, if the are already getting along quite well then maybe not worry about it.

Then again, I guess all we have to do with Nap is achieve "Friendly" status once. Not sure if that means we can then backstab him later.

 

[Cam_H]

'Yes' ... we can backstab later if we want. Said it before, but I agree that spreading Hinduism into France and getting him to convert seems to be one of our few tactics to get him to 'Friendly' in the short term (putting up another Winery and gifting him Wine 'might' help, although it might not). It'll take him a while to get to Representation for favourite civic bonus.

Muddy pool means less control over our types. Athens would pop a lot of Great Artists with the Statue of Zeus and The Parthenon as well as the National Epic. I doubt that this six Golden Age requirement is going to be all that difficult provided we make some effort, but I'd nonetheless like to be in a position of reasonable control over our pops.

I don't know how to handle Diplomacy, because I don't know our victory target.

 

[·Imhotep·]

I hope this time there is less confusing stuff, and hopefully I didn't play too bad . Feel free to point out my errors though . Anyway, here is what happened:

There are several AI with erratic settling it seems:

Right in the middle of nowhere...More importantly, we pile up some bricks:

Didn't revolt yet as the switch to Rep + Slavery is 2 turns of Anarchy, should be done in the upcoming GA.

Settle Whales + Fur + Copper:

Time to die:

Thucydides thinks that as well...

Quite useless event:

Errrmmm...no, I don't think so...

The battle of Athens...

...sees us victorious at the cost of 3 Cats...

What a prize!

And that were my ten. Although Bouboulina sports Maces now I think we can pretty much stomp her with the stack we have. 1 GM and 1 GP were born during my set, we can trigger a GA, burn through Nationalism and get the Taj. Espionage got focused on Saladin.

We're in a strong position...have fun!

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks Imhotep for the turnset.

This is a 'got it'.

I've had about two minutes to check out the save before heading off to my job, but pleased to see that Athens was taken with the loss of only three Catapults. Shock-promoted War Elephants should be able to defend OK against Macemen (as well as Horse Archers and Chariots).

Can not fathom what's happening on the diplomatic front ... Zara Yaqob is 'Friendly' to Saladin with -1, while we're still only 'Pleased' to Napoleon with +10. K-Mod has certainly made things 'interesting', but there just seems to be a lot that's got me fu 'bamboozled'.

Really pleased that we'd popped a Great Prophet, who can be banked for one of the two last Golden Ages.

I note that Bouboulina self-researched Philosophy despite our monopoly.

A couple of early questions before I present my PPP:

Where is The Taj Mahal to be built?

I'd like to keep the war effort up against Bouboulina, but I'm curious as to the best approach. lymond likes the 'extort for peace cycle' approach, while 10 turns ago I wanted her completely off the map ... but now with that new junk Greek city, I'm not so sure whether annihilation is 'in the picture'.

While we can run a Golden Age with the Great Scientist and the Great Merchant, I'm not 'sold' that now is the best time for it, especially with no National Epic up and Nationalism still a few turns off (we can ramp up however given our treasury). Also, Athens is going to be in resistance for a number of turns yet, and I'd like to leverage this city with the next Golden Age. Yes? No?

 

[lymond]

Good turnset, Imo.

Couple of things I have issue with:

1) Helio should not be building a CH. We still need more units and it should build them constantly in war. That was a pretty big mistake.

2) Some cities could grow when outside a Golden Age like Istanbul and Elie

3) Some useless roads by workers when they could be improving stuff. and we can improve deer by planting one on those Axe on the tile.

Also, some of those units in Sparta can move up.

I'm not sure I like settling that city for the whales, but I guess we can put Maoi there. Not sure. We could still have gotten whales with a city north of them.

We might be able to OB Sal now, but should get some settlers out soon.

 

[vranasm]

looks like good progress on Athens front... I will have to check save later

One thing that sprung my mind immediately is that Athens has Great Library and we should put National Epic there.

As for the extort techs thingy... I think leave Boubolina only the crap city, take the 3 good ones (which we have to find still?) and extort some techs.

The quest for Iron from Saladdin...does anyone know what is reward? If it's good one...well we're warmongering anyway... problem could be timeframe since I think such quests have only limited time to fulfill (or is it us reaching some era?)

As for the launching GA... chaining GA's is very strong tool, so I kind of see what had Cam on mind... maybe waiting until Athens is out of revolt, but before finishing NE is good time to launch the GA, but as I said have to see the save first (8 turns per the SS provided...).

As for where to put it...obviously in strongest hammers city aside from Heliopolis, I wouldn't be surprised if it would be corinth with it's 2 ivory and 3+ hill tiles (can't remember now exactly the number).

edit:
gosh...crossed fingers for some SS of corinth in last few pages...bad luck :-( well anyway...I think I am not too far away from judging the hammers of that place.

 

[Smilingrogue]

*Lurker*
@ Vranasm

From Ori's guide to Events and Quests:

Prereq: BRONZE_WORKING AND lacking either of the following revealed resources: Oil OR Copper OR Iron OR Horse
Obsolete: if GrowthPercent for the current Game Speed number of turns have ellapsed (100 for normal)
Active/Weight: 40/300
Aim:
Declare War on the owner of the resource triggered, stay in war until you conquer the resource
Result:
1.get 0.5*default number of players for this world size+1 units (4 for standard) with the conquered resource as prerequisite

So, four units for taking the iron tile. Not actually worth bothering, IMHO.

/end Lurker comment

 

[astre]

corinth will be a good place for taj when we get out of war.
At this time, war warriness make it a suboptimal place.

athen wil get out of revolt in 8 turns. I propose also to launch the GA at this time. just in time for us to get rid of boubou and nationalism to arrive (9 turns if we gain money).
We will use the boosted production for taj mahal...

the 3 left cities from boubou can be deducted from broders.
the closesr us are not very far (3rd border for these each ones)

micro stuff; erdine should gain 1 tile from sparta

btw: did anyone notted that our population exceed pop requirement for domination?
> 46% !
we still have to multiply our area by 2 and we win... easy *cought* *cought*

EDIT: we need to take a shot to mauselum.
IA is not interested in wonders (pyarmids in + 700 AD, WTH).
It will be a great addition to generated more GP.

more interesting, i bet there is marble in boubou lands! I think he IA in kmod seem to build wonders when thet have discount for them but i have no proof except that we have a monopoly on stone at this time and noone did built pyr (but nappy buit the great wall)
there is 2 more marble outside. one in saladin and one in zulu lands

 

[Killroyan]

Does Athens even have a resourceless tile??? Still can't check the save too bad. My laptop refuses to install civ properly. There is some stuff lingering around in my directory of the old version. If I load the mod I keep ending up in warlords........ sigh.

 

[astre]

Does Athens even have a resourceless tile??? Still can't check the save too bad. My laptop refuses to install civ properly. There is some stuff lingering around in my directory of the old version. If I load the mod I keep ending up in warlords........ sigh.

there is only 7 recources near athen ^^ + 3 unknown tiles

 

[vranasm]

checking the save and typing my thoughts in no particular order

- I would pull out our medic from Athens, since we don't know what is in the fog and at least 4 attackers visible

- Thebes is hurting in hapiness, I wonder what happened to the third MP planned, but for now we should maybe switch the order and build archer before forge and readjust some tiles eventually to not grow

- edirne, memphis work scientists even though they are not at happy cap and have food...i would grow them, we are not in slavery yet, but once we are...well nothing like we don't find use for them ;-) (edirne could grow in 1 turn if employed all citizen and then can switch into scientists or grow close to another growth and then readjust untill unhappy fades for example)

- I was the meaning bursa will build settlers until we have enough of them...so confusing why there is barracks almost finished?

- i would maybe readjust mycenae to coast since we will need pop once we hit slavery there and I don't think running nonriverside cottages is good there

- sparta needs granary not forge

- alexandria should work stone not forest plains (or that grass farm to grow quicker), deer should have been improved before stone though and we don't need road on the stone

- there is stack of 3 archers heading out of the barb city...i wonder where they go...

- we need to be in slavery seeing all the lack of built things :-(

- we need to get rid of "we yearn to join our blabla" - we really should think about this (extort/wipe)

- we didn't inflitrate Nappy with hindu? It failed the mission or we didn't send there the hindu missionary? I have to repeat that it's in our interest to infect him with hindu since it seems like our main religion until end of game and it's cheap +1-+2 relations - i would give him some tech for convert after infection asap - there was probably some miscomunication before TS since I remember someone mentioning taoist missionary spread, but we really need hindu

- boubou doesn't have many useful techs for us... theo (totally useless), music (not much use and she will build sistine for us anyway?), Machinery (the only thing useful, but if get Nappy to friendly due to hindu we should be able to trade it)

- I don't like the 40% slider...either we burn the money or spare some more

good luck Cam on the military front...i suspect you will need a turn or two healing before proceeding, those catapults seem very hurt

 

[Cam_H]

Here goes the PPP:

Generally agree with the observations made (many echoed below). $64,000 question being when to hit the Coco Chanel - Plato Golden Age ... I'm still a fan of waiting until the war's largely done and Athens is out of resistance. I suggest in nine turns we kick one off.

General Acts:

Move most of Sparta's units to the war front.

Take back our Clam from Saladin and trade Pigs instead. Gift him Pigs if we can't get to improve our relations to possibly 'Pleased'. I'm uninclined to Open Borders with our southern cities so vulnerable to a sneak attack.

Gift Wine to Napoleon.

Run down our treasury by 'upping' the component of the commerce slider.

No more Cottages in any BFC of a city that isn't clearly a commerce hub and has sufficient food to work its tiles! There is way too much 'hybridisation' ... Bursa? Edirne? Istanbul? Bursa's currently got a food count of -5.

Move super-medic back to injured Catapults.

War vs. Bouboulina ... slow and steady to minimise risk. She's on the ropes and I'd rather drag it out for a couple of turns than potentially burning good but injured units.

Barbarian Archers will have to be met by our Axes. I think we have to take a risk here, or else Alexandria could be in trouble. Move west Axe on to Iron tile so that there's a chance that the Archers may retreat. The other Axe to take a huge risk and move one tile south to confront the stack. If we lose Alexandria, I guess it won't be difficult to wrestle it back later on.

Cities:

Thebes: Work the Cottages where practical. Hand the shared Villages with Heliopolis back to that city to work (and grow its population faster) while working other Cottages. I'll squeeze in that Archer as proposed, but I'm keen to get that Forge up (+2 from Gold and soon Silver). With Hinduism as the AP religion, I'm split between a Hindu Monastery and a Market after.

Memphis: Frankly I like this city as a Maoi site more than Istanbul. Both have eight sea tiles incl. a seafood resource, but Istanbul should be running specialists and working Farms, while Memphis presents itself as a fair production centre if it had a few more . Keep on with the Hindu Missionaries. I'd join one or two up with a Heliopolis War Chariot and run them up to Hurrian. Gift the Missionary/Missionaries to Napoleon for improved % chance of Hinduism infiltration. I wouldn't mind sliding a Forge build in here, and as per above, Maoi after could work. I'd opt for a Priest rather than Scientist.

Heliopolis: I'd like to get the Stables done, but while we're in Hereditary Rule and still haven't spawnbusted properly, I'd go with 2 War Chariots. Population growth, incl. taking the two Villages from Thebes for a while.

Edirne: I don't know what this city's role is. As proposed, I'd take Sparta's Town due to the Edirne Library. War Elephant for lack of other unit producing cities. I don't mind the Courthouse build, but agree with lymond that this war effort should take priority for now.

Istanbul: Work Boat > Trireme > Forge > Courthouse. As potentially a second Farm, I'd Farm over the Cottage.

Ankara: Finish Forge to run an Engineer. Needs Hinduism for Pacifism. I'd Farm the south to chain-irrigate to the proposed Iron-Wine site.

Elephantine: I don't like the Cottages there, but doubt if it's worth the effort to convert them to Farms. I'd swap to the Forge before revisiting the National Epic. Also needs a Courthouse due to its high population.

Corinth: Given the progress made on the Forge, I'm happy to support this site for the Taj Mahal as proposed. The whip weariness is soon to go, and the Forge will add .

Bursa: I would convert that southern Cottage to a Farm, Farm every available other tile, and Mine the remaining three Hills. Again, this city should focus on population growth, and then Workers (and Settlers).

Mycenae: Work Boat build in three turns. Despite some of our odd roads around the place, this city is lacking and needs to be joined to our road network to improve unit movement. Again, Cottages in a city that I thought would have been Farms and Workshops. Two choppable Forests.

Sparta: As per earlier, give up Town to Edirne. Has choppable Forests on riverside Grassland. Agree with the Granary recommendation, but not upset by the Forge. This site is an acceptable commerce hub, and as such, happy to put Cottages down here.

Alexandria: Archer in four turns might be futile or might work. A Deer Camp would be handy if and when the dust settles.

Pi-Ramesses: Get the Fur Camp done and hooked up, gift Fur to Napoleon if we still need to to get him to 'Friendly' if he's still not there.