Rnes4: Allies and Enemies (Board nes)

[Plexus]

Hey, Roddy, I don't think I have enough time for this, man. At least not this weekend/week.

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

Orders PMed... (last night)

 

[erez87]

Did I gave orders?
Well I think I didn't so I'll send anyway

Russia
to Scandinavia:
We have decided to switch trade reletions to neutural as long as you don't respond us about your huge army building.

to germany:
We still offer peace at current borders. That will be our offer for every turn.

 

[naervod]

To: Russia
From: Scandanavia

We will move it at once. We feared an outbreak of hoslities along this border, but that appears it is not the case.

 

[erez87]

to Scandinavia:
We offered a DMZ ones peace is signed with peace... We had no plans of wars... Only unification of Russia. Wich will be finished ones peace with Germany is signed.
OOC GRRR on you! Now I'll need to redo orders!

Anyhow Roddy Cancel the build up in area 63. Bank all that money to. But all moves are to be done.

 

[Souron]

Originally posted by RI00SF2
so far I have only taken neutral territories that you have neglected to take and was uncontested in. I didn't attack you at all this turn and you tried taking 3 of my territories and you sunk my fleet. I didn't even take 18 or 24 from you which I could have easily done. Your fighting, I'm simply defending myself. You made a poor offer for peace with me in asking to keep 18 and all of africa. As for turkey they also only took a neutral territory that again was uncontested. You simply have made yuorself small, don't go crying about me warmongering.

To the WORLD, I implore you to no longer be allies with this wretched filth, he has now provoked a war in which he may not survive, he brought this on himself and deserves what he gets. He claimed territories that he did not take. He can't be trusted. I'll be honest with everyone, if he doesn't stay out of 18 and leave me alone, I plan on killing him and not stopping until I am have finshed him to his last army. I have no grievance with anyone other than Africa because his trickery and his lies have offended me. I have not invaded even one of his countries yet. The fact that he expanded like a bafoon is not my problem. I require 18 for me to leave him alone. He's going to kill more of me this turn. Must I simply sit back an let him chew on me somemore? That's not very reasonable. I'm not really defending myself to the north at all. I simply wish the world to back me in my decision to remove this filth. I ask everyone to either post their opinion publically or PM me with what you think.
Sincerely,
~The King of Spain

The reason I did not take territories 23 and 25 is it would decrease net gain, as either all contries get the proffit, or just my enemies; newtrality is profitless and thus avoided. I did explisedly state actions against those territaries would be considered acts of war. the claim on territory 18 is also mine not yours; it is closer to my capital. with my privious offer you still get 8 territories (thats above the average #). That offer stands, assuming I can be assured you do not threaten my lands with your troops.

I'll give orders later today. (in 2 hours)

 

[RoddyVR]

Still need orders from:
Sweden - Naervod
Germany - Plexus
Africa - Souron

Souron said he's sending in a little while (see above).
Plexus has (semi?) quit.
and Naervod......

 

[Heine]

any open?

 

[RoddyVR]

Heine, i'm assuming you're asking if any nations are open.

if you look at post 101 (about 7 or 8 up), Plexus seems to be quiting (or trying to).
If you'd like to take Germany, please send plexus a PM asking him to either give it to you or confirm that he's quiting. cause from that post i'm not entirely sure.

for the meantime, if you understand the rules well enough, if you wanna send orders for germany, that would be great, since i'm clearly not getting them this time from Plexus.

 

[RoddyVR]

Souron, i dont mean to get into this, or take sides or anything, but i wanna make sure that you're not misunderstanding the rules. (and also i'm sort of getting back at you now for saying you'll send orders in 2 hours and i still aint got them).

The reason I did not take territories 23 and 25 is it would decrease net gain, as either all contries get the proffit, or just my enemies; newtrality is profitless and thus avoided. I did explisedly state actions against those territaries would be considered acts of war. the claim on territory 18 is also mine not yours; it is closer to my capital. with my privious offer you still get 8 territories (thats above the average #). That offer stands, assuming I can be assured you do not threaten my lands with your troops.

I'll give orders later today. (in 2 hours)

if i understand correctly, you're saying that you didnt take the 2 "disputed" territories cause taking them would DECREASE your income?
that's wrong, they can only increase your income.
if you're saying that they would give all your allies (combined)more moeny then you, then wouldnt that be a good thing? makes you a better trade partner.
The reason that i switched England's relations to you as neutral before Sheep took it, was that Spain threatened to stop trading with england if it didnt stop trading with you, and considering that you were half the size, it made sence to "side" with them.

as for giving your enemies more money, well yes, in a way you would have, but then again, now they not only are getting that money anyway (by taking the lands), but also have a base of operation from which to launch another front in the war against you.

I guess what i'm trying to say, is that contrary to what a couple of you (players) have tried to convince me of:
The Benefits of being BIGGER are greater then the downsides. Not as much so as it would have been without the trade system being as it is, but still in total its an ADVANTAGE.

 

[RI00SF2]

Souron, you show me now that you were trying to cheat the world of income. And you ask for assistance from the world against me, who only tried to make everyone richer. Now I petition you for the terms of your surrender or I shall destroy you in the name of the greater good. Since you now obviously cheated us out of income, which you made more than obvious in you last statement. The King of Spain petitions the WORLD to trade embargo AFRICA PERMANENTLY. After this turn anyone who allies themselves with africa shall never be allied with the Spanish ever again. Africa cheated us all out of possible 4 or 5 gold each by intentionally not expanding correcting and still claiming lands. This must be punished. If you want to still ally with the african you may compensate me anonomously by donating me gold to compensate me for my losses so that the african may not know that you are against them. Be allies with the deceitful african without compensating me for remedying this WORLD problem will not be taken lightly. I need to know where people stand on this. I request PMs at once.
Respectfully,
~The King of Spain

P.S. AFRICA, 18 is equidistant to both out capitals and I no longer trust you at all. 18 is mine and I shall take it from you if necessary. I await world opinion before I attack you further, but if you attack me at all this turn you will clearly be the aggressor which you are already by your attacks last turn. If the world lets me kill you after your treachery, I will do so. Good luck proving that you are not to deceitful cheat that I claim you to be.

 

[Souron]

Originally posted by RoddyVR
Souron, i dont mean to get into this, or take sides or anything, but i wanna make sure that you're not misunderstanding the rules. (and also i'm sort of getting back at you now for saying you'll send orders in 2 hours and i still aint got them).

I was planning to. In any case I'm glad I did, otherwize spain would have screwed me over quite well.

if i understand correctly, you're saying that you didnt take the 2 "disputed" territories cause taking them would DECREASE your income?

no deacease my proffit in the case of war. proffit is the % more gold I gain verses my enemy. allies get the same amount of gold in proffit from me regardless, expecialy if they are also allied with my enemy.

if you're saying that they would give all your allies (combined)more moeny then you, then wouldnt that be a good thing? makes you a better trade partner.
The reason that i switched England's relations to you as neutral before Sheep took it, was that Spain threatened to stop trading with england if it didnt stop trading with you, and considering that you were half the size, it made sence to "side" with them.

I dissagrea. lets leave it at that.

as for giving your enemies more money, well yes, in a way you would have, but then again, now they not only are getting that money anyway (by taking the lands), but also have a base of operation from which to launch another front in the war against you.

yes there is a need for a bace of opperations. I have one that's very effective -- can't be distroyed in one turn. thats all you need.

I guess what i'm trying to say, is that contrary to what a couple of you (players) have tried to convince me of:
The Benefits of being BIGGER are greater then the downsides. Not as much so as it would have been without the trade system being as it is, but still in total its an ADVANTAGE.

seemed quite equal to me, until you instaled that no neggetive income rule, now you may be right.

 

[Souron]

Originally posted by RI00SF2
Souron, you show me now that you were trying to cheat the world of income. And you ask for assistance from the world against me, who only tried to make everyone richer. Now I petition you for the terms of your surrender or I shall destroy you in the name of the greater good. Since you now obviously cheated us out of income, which you made more than obvious in you last statement. The King of Spain petitions the WORLD to trade embargo AFRICA PERMANENTLY. After this turn anyone who allies themselves with africa shall never be allied with the Spanish ever again. Africa cheated us all out of possible 4 or 5 gold each by intentionally not expanding correcting and still claiming lands. This must be punished. If you want to still ally with the african you may compensate me anonomously by donating me gold to compensate me for my losses so that the african may not know that you are against them. Be allies with the deceitful african without compensating me for remedying this WORLD problem will not be taken lightly. I need to know where people stand on this. I request PMs at once.
Respectfully,
~The King of Spain

In bold is the actual acusation. I cheeted the world of of a possible 4 or 5 gold? yes. but indoing so only decreased the total gold of the world, including my own, thereby helping the richer nations by keeping the value of gold high.

Its like this: if you have lots of gold, say 100, an increase of 5 would benifit you %5 were as your poor 50 gold bearing nabor gets a %10 increase from that gold. thus the reitive weath of your nation goes down (from 66% of combined wealth to 65%) it would make a greater difference if the amount were greater ofcorce.

As my income is greater than spains, I am able to aford a few ships to declare war on you, forcing you to loze money becouse you are smaller then me. there is also no secresy in giving money to spain, by any means as the income is displayed for all.

P.S. AFRICA, 18 is equidistant to both out capitals

It takes me 1 turn to get there by ship. you, 2 regardless how.

and I no longer trust you at all.

you fail to mention why. we are at war and I act apropriatly. If any of my actions seem a to be breaking any agreament, or involve suprize attacks please tell me as I seem to have over looked them. a suprize attack is an attack when not at war. We are at war I shall act aproprietly.

18 is mine and I shall take it from you if necessary.

now you tell me. after I wasted sending troops there. Perhaps there is some way you can make it worth wile for me to give it to you? a nother territory perhalps. Negotiations are possible but you do not express your claims and wants. 18 is rightfully mine, and I have no reason to surrender it. I also rightfully claim 23.

"humph. you suggest something then" -- rival civ3 civ when you refuse there trade offer.

I await world opinion before I attack you further, but if you attack me at all this turn you will clearly be the aggressor which you are already by your attacks last turn.

you are the first agresser as you captured territoy 23. I explisidly claimed it, but neglected taking it for reasons already stated. I was able to but chose not to. Yes my having been able to is important.

This is war. I will perhalps to my foly act as such. "offence is the best deffence" -Civ3 Millatary Advisor.
This does not mean I am closed to negotiation

If the world lets me kill you after your treachery, I will do so. Good luck proving that you are not to deceitful cheat that I claim you to be.

In my eyes I am not cheating the world. I have already explained my reasoning. If some one wishes to argue this feal free. there is always a chance that my calculations are off.


My Views on the Conflict with Spain

Resons for War:
-Spain attacked territories clamed, justly by me.
-Offence is the best defence
-spain will not negotiate

Reason others should join:
-Spain does not act in the benefit of you in any way aside from weakening itself and me.
-your cheif enemy is the amout of people, not the amout of land they control
-spain is agressive, and likly to treat you as it has me; attack. attack it before it attacks you.
-territories are worth more the longer you have them (total income is more, not per turn income)
-spain seems irrational in its arguments, if so, and I am not intirly sure that it is, It is dangerous to have him near you. perhalps he will find some wierd reason to attack you too.
-you will likly gain my trust

 

[Souron]

To other nations: the only reason I called oppon italy is becouse turkey has commited an agressive act against me. I am unable to fight both spain and turkey, so I called appon help. It was not my intention to drag other nations into my conflict with spain, however if it I must fight turkey it is nessisry that I get help to fight spain. Also spain seems to be draging you in.

I request help from Austria, Italy and France.


To turkey: we offer 6 gold for territory 25 back inorder to avoid war. Juging by the size of your invation force, however I would guess you are not willing to bargin.

Take no offence to my asking for help as spain has done(taken offence).

 

[Souron]

RoddyVR could you please post the diplomacy with every turn so that I can site the history of the game.

 

[RoddyVR]

oh, sure, will do. i still have all the orders starting from turn 1 too. so if needed i can recreate the "chain" of relations from then. but starting with the update i hope i'll do tonight, i'll post a revised relations chart along with the map.

 

[Amon Savag]

To:Africa
From:Austria

We cannot help you as we are a trading isolationist country

To:Turkey
From:Austria

We'll buy serbia off of you for 15 gold...Deal?

 

[naervod]

If Heine wants my place he can have it.

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

Should I expect an update anytime soon?

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

Spain & Africa check you PMs.

PS: Africa -- Italy will remain neutral.