Role Play Challenge, The Next Generation: Sid Meier, The Civilized Tyrant
- Thread starter madscientist
- Start date
LegioCorvus
Prince
Looking forward to an epic game. 
I'd go masonry -> sailing -> pottery -> writing
Sailing won't help TheMeInTeam until he... sorry, the city... has a Lighthouse, which will probably come after pop 2, and even then you'll need to pasture the Horses to get it in a decent amount of time. So it's reasonably safe to wait to tech Sailing until after Masonry.
Masonry will let your 4th pop in MadScientist (getting... confusing...) work the Marble instead of the hillside Mine. Same 1
3 
, but the +4 
will improve your 
by ~25% of its current value. Worth it, in my opinion.
Oh, and notice anything interesting about the shape of the lakes and rivers around the capitol?
I'd go masonry -> sailing -> pottery -> writing
Sailing won't help TheMeInTeam until he... sorry, the city... has a Lighthouse, which will probably come after pop 2, and even then you'll need to pasture the Horses to get it in a decent amount of time. So it's reasonably safe to wait to tech Sailing until after Masonry.
Masonry will let your 4th pop in MadScientist (getting... confusing...) work the Marble instead of the hillside Mine. Same 1
3 , but the +4 will improve your by ~25% of its current value. Worth it, in my opinion.Oh, and notice anything interesting about the shape of the lakes and rivers around the capitol?
Spoiler :
Metal Bunny
Chieftain
Masonry - HBR, because with 40 civs, you will want an early advantage.
I had one game where the wonderful shaka was incredibly close to asoka, who founded both hindu and judaism. The zulu, along with a gold and 1 shrine, had such an enormous advantage that I had to wait for nukes to actually be able to take him on.
The chances of this happening are high enough, so I say, use that UU, would be a shame to let it go to waste.
If Sal wasn't protective you could've tried a really fast chariot rush, but all I can suggest is, since you are going to warmonger a lot and that tends to downplay diplomacy a bit, that you perhaps use a couple of chariots and declare war on Sal, if only to make sure you get workers, pillage money, and the knowledge that Sal can't hook up copper.
If that doesn't sound great, I think beelining Monarchy to get higher happy caps and to be able to whip city 3 in quick successions, while the other cities concentrate on getting construction, could work too. Elephant rushes are awesome, especially with this particular civ, always has this "We're crossing the Alps to pillage Rome" kind of feel.
I had one game where the wonderful shaka was incredibly close to asoka, who founded both hindu and judaism. The zulu, along with a gold and 1 shrine, had such an enormous advantage that I had to wait for nukes to actually be able to take him on.
The chances of this happening are high enough, so I say, use that UU, would be a shame to let it go to waste.
If Sal wasn't protective you could've tried a really fast chariot rush, but all I can suggest is, since you are going to warmonger a lot and that tends to downplay diplomacy a bit, that you perhaps use a couple of chariots and declare war on Sal, if only to make sure you get workers, pillage money, and the knowledge that Sal can't hook up copper.
If that doesn't sound great, I think beelining Monarchy to get higher happy caps and to be able to whip city 3 in quick successions, while the other cities concentrate on getting construction, could work too. Elephant rushes are awesome, especially with this particular civ, always has this "We're crossing the Alps to pillage Rome" kind of feel.
Blacklanner
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2010
- Messages
- 82
Maybe i'm missing something, but i find Numideans extremely underwhelming. The free flanking is nice, but the loss of str for a mele bonus really only makes them super useful vs swords. And kills them as city attackers or vs other calvery. Prior to ai iron working, or vs ai's with no iron it seems like there is little benefit. I have enjoyed the free flanking 1 promotion, but overall i'm disappointed. Maybe having ivory in my capital has something to do with that.
Spoiler :
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Sid Meier, The Civilized Tyrant: Mustering the Numideans
Sid listened to all the advice from the council of Civfanatics. All was good and the general consensus was to use what we have, meaining horses and the UU while exploiting the financial power of the coast.
However, before committing to Horse Back Riding, Sid decided to research Masonry. Again a riverside marble get's Sid 4 commerce!
As the Civfanatic think tank starting trying to figure out how to saddle a horse rather than tie a cart to them, The City of MadScientist built an archer and prepped the next Civfanatic for city settling. The Civfanatic ABigCivFan was sent to city site #4 near the western horses. As with TheMeInTeam, one of the strongest war-mongers of the Civfanatic community was chosen for an obvious early military pump.
Meanwhile Saladin has proven busy in a totally different direction of research, religion.
Saladin has become the founder of Judaism which quickly spread to the city of TheMeInTeam, followed by the other 2 cities. Excellent news for Sid who had no need to research Mysticism anytime soon, the the Arab zealot enjoy holy enlightenment while The Civfanatics contemplate death. However, for diplomacy and extra happiness Sid did adopt the Jewish faith. Soon Mao and Gilgamesh also embraced Judaism and Sid was soon disappointingly looking at a Jewish lovefest. Yet hope for additional chaos presented itself when Sid met the next leader
Ah Stalin, almost as good as Shaka or Genghis! While he was already Jewish, he also had enough on his hands. Whether he's gunning for a Jewish bretheren or fighting some far off enemy Sid has not found out yet.
The City of MadScientist continues to be a remarkably well run city, producing commerce and hammers and the beginnings of military production
In fact, Sid found it now profitable to initiate the practice of Slavery
And found a disturbingly high level of eager approval from the Civfanatic community.
Finally, the Civfanatics figured out the finer details of saddlery
And began immediately contructing stables, often relying on the whip.
After HBR, writing was researched because frankly Sid got tired of using his fingers and toes to rely on his notes.
Pottery was researched, then Sid went after Iron Working to see where the empire stood
and the million Dollar question, does Sid have access to iron.
Yes he does! And in a very secure and useful place. The Numidian Horde groups together on the southern border
Within site of Sid's Horse Master TheMeInTeam. Sid sat back and started writing ideas down, in characters of course as he still does not know alphabet, and brings his Civfanatics counsil together for some discussions
But before discussion, a few screenshots showing our situation.
9 Numidians already with
3 more on the way and construction of the iron mine underway.
Points of Discussion of Sid's Agenda
1) Is the Civfanatic army sufficient to begin the attack on Arabia. I assume the floodplains/copper city should be first target for a lightening fast strike.
2) As we have iron now, do we begin settling the east, particluarly the gems in the jungle or wait until the upcoming Arabian war in under control?
3) Techpath??? I think math/construction has tremendous upside right now giving us Catapults and War Elephants.
4) Suggestions/Volunteers for upcoming cities??? Sid envisions Dave as the most adapt for the Floodplains city which should be extensively cottaged.
Sid listened to all the advice from the council of Civfanatics. All was good and the general consensus was to use what we have, meaining horses and the UU while exploiting the financial power of the coast.
However, before committing to Horse Back Riding, Sid decided to research Masonry. Again a riverside marble get's Sid 4 commerce!
As the Civfanatic think tank starting trying to figure out how to saddle a horse rather than tie a cart to them, The City of MadScientist built an archer and prepped the next Civfanatic for city settling. The Civfanatic ABigCivFan was sent to city site #4 near the western horses. As with TheMeInTeam, one of the strongest war-mongers of the Civfanatic community was chosen for an obvious early military pump.
Meanwhile Saladin has proven busy in a totally different direction of research, religion.
Saladin has become the founder of Judaism which quickly spread to the city of TheMeInTeam, followed by the other 2 cities. Excellent news for Sid who had no need to research Mysticism anytime soon, the the Arab zealot enjoy holy enlightenment while The Civfanatics contemplate death. However, for diplomacy and extra happiness Sid did adopt the Jewish faith. Soon Mao and Gilgamesh also embraced Judaism and Sid was soon disappointingly looking at a Jewish lovefest. Yet hope for additional chaos presented itself when Sid met the next leader
Ah Stalin, almost as good as Shaka or Genghis! While he was already Jewish, he also had enough on his hands. Whether he's gunning for a Jewish bretheren or fighting some far off enemy Sid has not found out yet.
The City of MadScientist continues to be a remarkably well run city, producing commerce and hammers and the beginnings of military production
In fact, Sid found it now profitable to initiate the practice of Slavery
And found a disturbingly high level of eager approval from the Civfanatic community.
Finally, the Civfanatics figured out the finer details of saddlery
And began immediately contructing stables, often relying on the whip.
After HBR, writing was researched because frankly Sid got tired of using his fingers and toes to rely on his notes.
Pottery was researched, then Sid went after Iron Working to see where the empire stood
and the million Dollar question, does Sid have access to iron.
Yes he does! And in a very secure and useful place. The Numidian Horde groups together on the southern border
Within site of Sid's Horse Master TheMeInTeam. Sid sat back and started writing ideas down, in characters of course as he still does not know alphabet, and brings his Civfanatics counsil together for some discussions
But before discussion, a few screenshots showing our situation.
9 Numidians already with
3 more on the way and construction of the iron mine underway.
Points of Discussion of Sid's Agenda
1) Is the Civfanatic army sufficient to begin the attack on Arabia. I assume the floodplains/copper city should be first target for a lightening fast strike.
2) As we have iron now, do we begin settling the east, particluarly the gems in the jungle or wait until the upcoming Arabian war in under control?
3) Techpath??? I think math/construction has tremendous upside right now giving us Catapults and War Elephants.
4) Suggestions/Volunteers for upcoming cities??? Sid envisions Dave as the most adapt for the Floodplains city which should be extensively cottaged.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
The power of these units are the free flanking, 3 promtions (assuming a barracks and stable) and +50% versus melee making them almost immune to any counter. They stand against any unit with combat 1, even spears
Combat 1 numideans are 5.5 with +50% versus melee, spears get +100% versus mounted, thus
5.5 versus 6.4 for a Combat I spear.
Add the shock promotion rather than flanking II
5.5 versus 5.4 for a combat I spear.
Also the flanking II line plays on the charismatic trait as the survive a decent number of battles to get well promoted and allow faster GGs.
Finally, they make excellent upgrades!
Blacklanner
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2010
- Messages
- 82
I guess the key is early advantage vs spears or swords compared to normal ha. and i can see going flanking II, combat I giving decent city crackers even vs archers. hopefully most of your first wave can retreat and soften up those protective jerks. Also much as all the protective neighbors suck, its kinda nice not to have the mongols or somebody to deal with that would favor ha or a uu replacement.
bobbyboy29
I was saying boo-urns...
Good luck Mad, just a note, you have clams, fish and rice which tie in well with another optional rule to add: Being Sid, you must found Sid's Sushi and spread it as far and wide as you can!
3 cities and 2 workers? Sounds a bit light to me but with the warprep it's understandable. (I always try for at least 1:1)
Seconded on the "Sid's Sushi". Although with the name that should be a dead giveaway.
I haven't taken a look at the save (being at school at this time... yeah I should be working) but if Sal is 3 cities or less we should aim for a single "finish him" move and take all his cities in a single go.
This nets us a nice floodplains city, a second cap site and the jewish shrine which all would do nicely to fuel our economy.
(I'm a big fan of massive cottage economies which fuel a "big economy of buying my way to the top")
Seconded on the "Sid's Sushi". Although with the name that should be a dead giveaway.
I haven't taken a look at the save (being at school at this time... yeah I should be working) but if Sal is 3 cities or less we should aim for a single "finish him" move and take all his cities in a single go.
This nets us a nice floodplains city, a second cap site and the jewish shrine which all would do nicely to fuel our economy.
(I'm a big fan of massive cottage economies which fuel a "big economy of buying my way to the top")
Infantry#14
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,600
It's too bad that UN cannot be built. Otherwise, Sid can force Environmentalism and bring all ai into bankruptcy while Sid in millions
.Der Graf
Omnipresent Eye
Do it, I say !
I think everyone agrees with copper city as first target. These floodplains require competent administration
The gems city will pay for itself, so settling depends on your decision when to attack Sal. Is there time for a quick settler build in between ?
Frankthetank
Chieftain
The danger of scouting Sal's lands are that the longer he waits, the more likely the magic longbows will appear to protect his cities
LegioCorvus
Prince
Scouting now may be a bad move, but surely there were turns while he was researching Iron Working and building up his forces that he could have used one of his faster Numidians to do some quick reconnaissance. Still, I don't think it'll end up making a big difference.
EDIT: Just reread. Since he's building 3 more Numidians, he has enough time to send one down to do quick check of what he might be facing. DOUBLE EDIT: Unless he whips. Ahhhhhh... forget it.
Out of curiosity, Mad, what's the Chariot for? Axemen defense, a low strength healing unit, or just a leftover quick unit pump that came before HBR?
Metal Bunny
Chieftain
I agree, attacking now would be best. Although, magical longbows are not that big of an issue, since any type of HA with flank II has a minimum of 50% retreat, they kind of become like catapults in late games; have enough of them and you can reduce anything to such low hp, that even warriors can kill them.
But for that too work you need a lot of units, so I suggest that attacking now, would be best.
I also think that it'd be best if you get your workers ready to prepare the gems, so that you can whip out a settler and more efficiently recuperate thanks to the compensating effects of the gem happiness.
But for that too work you need a lot of units, so I suggest that attacking now, would be best.
I also think that it'd be best if you get your workers ready to prepare the gems, so that you can whip out a settler and more efficiently recuperate thanks to the compensating effects of the gem happiness.
cripp7
Playin' Bored
how often do you apply the whip? you should be able to take out Salad with mounted units and bring swords, axes in for city garrison.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
To answer a few questions,
First point, contrary to the Civfanatic community's opinion, Sid is not divine and makes mistakes!
I should have at scouted out Sal's capital with the chariot once we opened borders.
Second Point: we have not had open border with sal that long, but should have opened them earlier, like before Iron working :duh:
Third Point: The chariot was basically a fast horse pasture defense against a few wandering Barbarian pre-HBR.
Fourth Point: I doubt Sal can get Longbows that fast, so the Numidian Charge is the number one priority. Additional Swords/Axes will be sent to mop things up and pehaps give Gilgamesh a look over (Sid quickly computes the effectiveness of Numidean's against the Vulture...)
Fifth Point: I have whipped enough but refuse to send the cities into 30 turns of unhappiness. The future Numidians can get to the front real fast. Also as sal swapped to slavery rather recently he may have very few metal defenders and very likely NOT have iron.
Sixth Point: The above 5 points form a Pentacle!
First point, contrary to the Civfanatic community's opinion, Sid is not divine and makes mistakes!
I should have at scouted out Sal's capital with the chariot once we opened borders.Second Point: we have not had open border with sal that long, but should have opened them earlier, like before Iron working :duh:
Third Point: The chariot was basically a fast horse pasture defense against a few wandering Barbarian pre-HBR.
Fourth Point: I doubt Sal can get Longbows that fast, so the Numidian Charge is the number one priority. Additional Swords/Axes will be sent to mop things up and pehaps give Gilgamesh a look over (Sid quickly computes the effectiveness of Numidean's against the Vulture...)
Fifth Point: I have whipped enough but refuse to send the cities into 30 turns of unhappiness. The future Numidians can get to the front real fast. Also as sal swapped to slavery rather recently he may have very few metal defenders and very likely NOT have iron.
Sixth Point: The above 5 points form a Pentacle!
Numidians are fun. They're painful to watch against ellies, but it's really not hard to get F2/C3 or more fairly quickly. I mean, you can afford to attack with 20% win odds, 40% retreat odds. You'll survive over half the time. When you win, you get like 6-7 XP. When you retreat, you get 1.
drlake
Emperor
Interesting start. I haven't played a Hannibal game where I could use the UU yet, but love the potential of HAs.
Math/Construction sounds like a good tech direction, but I still screw up on Monarch so what do I know?
Math/Construction sounds like a good tech direction, but I still screw up on Monarch so what do I know?
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