Romantic-Platonic: False Dichotomy?

Eukaryote

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In the past couple days I've been having some thoughts. All our lives we're taught that romantic and platonic love, or "relationships" and "friendships" are two different things. But couldn't that just be a myth? Is it possible this is just an assumption? An assumption we accept for no reason simply because it's ubiquitous throughout society?

After all, what does a "romantic relationship" compose of? As far as I can tell it's mainly defined by love, trust, respect, and attraction. However all these aspects normally exist in varying degrees within so called platonic relationships as well. Now I'm heterosexual, and therefore biologically incapable of being attracted to my male friends, so the attraction part only exists with female friends (who seem to be the majority since I find women easier to bond with). Due to the aspects of emotional intimacy and playfulness that arise in close friendship: love, trust, respect, and attraction inevitably end up as parts of all my cross gender friendships, and all of them except attraction in all my same sex friendships. And I find flirtation to be common in male-female and female-female friendships. After all, flirtation is really nothing more than playful or affectionate behavior that crosses a certain threshold.

Now one could make the case that there's some kind of barrier that draws a line between romantic and platonic relationships, such as: if you're having sex with them, that means it's romantic. However there are many examples of people who say they're in romantic relationships but don't have sex. There are also some examples of people who are "just friends" but do have sex. One could say that a romantic relationship is one where the aforementioned love-trust-respect-attraction feelings are very strong. Despite this, wherever you draw the line that constitutes "very strong" is arbitrary. Plus, you may have "very strong" love-etc feelings for more than one person. Then what? Is it simply that whoever you have strongest feelings for is your romantic partner, assuming that person feels the same way? That would be akin to saying: "Pick which one of your friends is your favorite. If you're her favorite too, then she's your girlfriend."

What I am NOT suggesting is that we become "polygamous." The concept of polygamy still gives reality to the idea that friends and lovers are two different things that require separate categories. Indeed, our entire vocabulary of words such as "monogamy and polygamy," and "single or in a relationship" assumes this dichotomy.

So what is your experience. Does the notion that friends and lovers are two different things fit with your perception of life? Or is it just a bunch of cultural hoo-haa?
 
In the past couple days I've been having some thoughts. All our lives we're taught that romantic and platonic love, or "relationships" and "friendships" are two different things. But couldn't that just be a myth? Is it possible this is just an assumption? An assumption we accept for no reason simply because it's ubiquitous throughout society?

A friendship is a type of relationship after all... right?

Even if you introduce sex into a friendship, it will not necessarily turn into something romantic..

It all basically depends on the 2 people involved. You can make your relationship into whatever you like, if it works for you.. and if you manage to pull it off. Most people tend to put a certain amount of weight on tradition, but that isn't required.
 
It seems pretty obvious that there is a HUGE difference between "friend" and "lover". It's just not at all the same thing.
 
It seems pretty obvious that there is a HUGE difference between "friend" and "lover". It's just not at all the same thing.

What about friends with "benefits"? You can be both a friend and a lover you know! The line between the two is not as clear as you pretend
 
Romantic is not "sex". Romantic is just "thinking about another's needs before your own".

Sex is sex and friendship is friendship. They both are seperate ways of showing an attraction to someone. Hopefully friendship is more mutual than just common sex. Sex can be faked, hopefully friendship is not.
 
Romantic is not "sex". Romantic is just "thinking about another's needs before your own".

Not a good definition - I often think about my mother's needs before my own. (she is awesome and does this for me all the time)

Sex is sex and friendship is friendship. They both are seperate ways of showing an attraction to someone.

So you're saying it's impossible to have a friend who you have sex with from time to time? Why not?

It's been known to happen you know :lol:
 
Not a good definition - I often think about my mother's needs before my own. (she is awesome and does this for me all the time)



So you're saying it's impossible to have a friend who you have sex with from time to time? Why not?

It's been known to happen you know :lol:

So you only have sex to please the other person and not yourself?

Are you romantically involved with your mother?

Having sex is not being romantic, unless you are not normal. Normally one has sex to please their own desires. They usually do not have it twice unless it does. So if you are having sex without pleasure you are being romantic, because you are just doing it to please the other person. If both people are trying to please the other person and neither are doing it for fun, then something is seriously wrong IMO.
 
What about friends with "benefits"? You can be both a friend and a lover you know! The line between the two is not as clear as you pretend
So someone has a romantic relationship when he goes to see a hooker ?
 
I perfectly answered your point.
Now if you don't understand the answer, that's something else...
 
You guys.. You have totally missed the mark with your replies.

I await a more worthy post before I respond again.

For someone who used his mother as an example, one sure gives up easily. Having a romance does not equate to sex, even if you are "romantic" with your mother. When a person is romantic it has nothing to do with sex. A friend with the benefit of sex is not being romantic, they are just allowing you more freedom with their body. Sexual freedom has little to do with romance. Are you going to tell me dogs are romantic?

Can sex occur without a strong attraction?

Just because a friend allows you to have sex, does not mean they are being romantic. Romance is the descriptive term of the one giving the pleasure by the receiver, not the descriptive term of the one receiving the gift. A true friend with benefits, only exist in an utopian society. It is not real, no matter how much the media forces the concept on us. There is a fine line between allowing someone free access to our bodies without receiving anything in return, and doing something that is pleasurable for ourselves. When it comes to sex, there is nothing altruistic about it.
 
Its like you are all arguing the same point but against each other. In truth your basically arguing semantics. Akka he sees lover as two people that have sex which is usually part of the relationship and he is saying that it does not imply romance. You however see lovers as more than that therefore your just arguing over what being lovers means. Timtofly he's not trying argue against you on whether just having sex is romance in fact it seems you both agree it doesn't always mean romance. He's saying that putting your needs before someone else's is not always romantic like as he gave an example he thinks about his mother's needs before his own but he has no romantic interest. Alright now that I think I got that covered hopefully. Can we progress with this thread and try to identify possibly not one or two but the many different attributes of a relationship that make it romantic?
 
So someone has a romantic relationship when he goes to see a hooker ?

If he brings her a dozen roses and a huge box of her favorite chocolate....
 
In the past couple days I've been having some thoughts. All our lives we're taught that romantic and platonic love, or "relationships" and "friendships" are two different things. But couldn't that just be a myth? Is it possible this is just an assumption? An assumption we accept for no reason simply because it's ubiquitous throughout society?

After all, what does a "romantic relationship" compose of? As far as I can tell it's mainly defined by love, trust, respect, and attraction. However all these aspects normally exist in varying degrees within so called platonic relationships as well. Now I'm heterosexual, and therefore biologically incapable of being attracted to my male friends, so the attraction part only exists with female friends (who seem to be the majority since I find women easier to bond with). Due to the aspects of emotional intimacy and playfulness that arise in close friendship: love, trust, respect, and attraction inevitably end up as parts of all my cross gender friendships, and all of them except attraction in all my same sex friendships. And I find flirtation to be common in male-female and female-female friendships. After all, flirtation is really nothing more than playful or affectionate behavior that crosses a certain threshold.

Now one could make the case that there's some kind of barrier that draws a line between romantic and platonic relationships, such as: if you're having sex with them, that means it's romantic. However there are many examples of people who say they're in romantic relationships but don't have sex. There are also some examples of people who are "just friends" but do have sex. One could say that a romantic relationship is one where the aforementioned love-trust-respect-attraction feelings are very strong. Despite this, wherever you draw the line that constitutes "very strong" is arbitrary. Plus, you may have "very strong" love-etc feelings for more than one person. Then what? Is it simply that whoever you have strongest feelings for is your romantic partner, assuming that person feels the same way? That would be akin to saying: "Pick which one of your friends is your favorite. If you're her favorite too, then she's your girlfriend."

What I am NOT suggesting is that we become "polygamous." The concept of polygamy still gives reality to the idea that friends and lovers are two different things that require separate categories. Indeed, our entire vocabulary of words such as "monogamy and polygamy," and "single or in a relationship" assumes this dichotomy.

So what is your experience. Does the notion that friends and lovers are two different things fit with your perception of life? Or is it just a bunch of cultural hoo-haa?
Of cuorse it's possible, before the 19th century they were a dime a dozen in both men and women however they were always same sex. Ruth and Naomi, Jonathan and David, these pairs were the best of friends. These friendship were exalted even above marriage forr they were agape rather than eros, they were selfless and not selfish. They did however get physical (but not sexual), for example 16th century quote from Discourse on Friendship: "For as an eye that dwells long upon a star must be refreshed with lesser beauties and strengthened with greens and looking-glasses, lest the sight become amazed with too great a splendour; so must the love of friends sometimes be refreshed with material and low caresses; lest by striving to be too divine it become less humane: it must be allowed its share of both."
 
What is "platonic relationship" anyway, besides a misnomer?

Serious question, someone please answer.

The definition given by Plato that has no real meaning.
 
Sex can be faked, hopefully friendship is not.

Having sex is not being romantic, unless you are not normal. Normally one has sex to please their own desires. They usually do not have it twice unless it does. So if you are having sex without pleasure you are being romantic, because you are just doing it to please the other person. If both people are trying to please the other person and neither are doing it for fun, then something is seriously wrong IMO.

I'm honestly not trying to be insulting here, but it seems to me that you don't have a lot of experience with sex.
 
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