Rome First Look (Trajan) Video

[Gali]

I believe forts will be more important than people realize. The change to districts and a more pillage happy AI means that you will need to defend in space more. Having forts that give automatic fortification bonuses whenever you move will make it a lot easier to shore up weakpoints in the line or shut off choke-points. This isn't Civ 5 where you only needed to defend a city tile that melee units bounced off of it.

 

[Human Crouton]

I can't see the advantage of having forts to protect territory unless built at chokepoints or in a long string close together. In any other circumstances I see nothing to stop opponents just going round them.

One of the reason armies hesitated just going around forts is that leaving a manned fort behind them may cause them to get pincered. As long as Civ VI has a flanking bonus, the forts will do their job.

The reason they were pointless in V was because they took forever to build.

And as, Gali said above, the unstacked cities will make them more useful as well.

 

[Miravlix]

In exactly the same way as you are allowed to express your opinions about the game, others are allowed to express their opinion about your opinions. Exactly the same principle. As long as it stay civil of course, but this also applies to both situations.

It's up to the moderators what they allow.

But in my book your nothing but a bully if you attack the person for having an opinion, instead of the topic. Since that is attacking another persons right to have an opinion.

Moderator Action: I would ask everyone to please stop discussing moderation policy, which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

 

[Sitalkas]

Rome will be surely the 1st civ I will try, I love their UA and their LUA, and Legions' forts will help both on offensive and on defensive circumstances.

Then of course I will try Greece, for hoplites death waves!

 

[Tantor]

One of the reason armies hesitated just going around forts is that leaving a manned fort behind them may cause them to get pincered. As long as Civ VI has a flanking bonus, the forts will do their job.

The reason they were pointless in V was because they took forever to build.

And as, Gali said above, the unstacked cities will make them more useful as well.

Another point is that forts are more expensive this time as you have to expend your builders to construct them. Hopefully they will be well worth the investment.....

 

[Paramecium]

And again we have a civilization linked to the new trade route/roads mechanic. Regarding, that you will normally have only a few trade routes available early in the game, instant roads are very strong, only in concerns for extra/easier movement and it is yet unknown if roads give a passive bonus like in CiV.
The only other civ so far I can imagine who can pump out a lot of roads a little bit later is England if it focus heavily on cities near the cost for their free Royal Dockyard. And until so far, the biggest sources of extra trade routes seem to be harbors and commercial hubs. With second, Germany might get a lot too because it wants to build a lot of ch to max their hanses.

In regards of the free trading post, as I have understood it, a trade post is constructed in each city you had already a trade route with. I think an important decision in the early game for a lot of other civs will be if they focus their limited trader units to build internal trade routes for their city connection or to establish trade routes to other civs/city states.

And the free trading post can be very potent. If you place three cities in a line, other civs might send a trader from city A to C passing through B to get the road going. But if they want the bonus of the trading post, they have to establish first a trade route to city B and then to city C. Rome can send it directly to C and already getting the bonus. Or even better, send a trade route from city A through B and C to some foreign City getting the bonus of two trade posts plus the benefit of that trade route itself. And until so far, that can be very good, does it seem that internal trade routes give mostly food and production bonus, but connection to other civs/city states give boni to gold, faith, culture, science depending on their districts. And when Egypt is the neighbor of Rome, you can even push your own city growth plus the gold advantage of your trade routes.

That will have a good synergy with the FREE bath districts. Probably you want to build them in every city and most city will be founded in the near of fresh water and mountains I think, so it is not that bad, that you will get a smaller housing bonus of it, but Bathes get a bonus to housing never the less and also amenities which will support a wide gameplay it think greatly. And until now, Im not sure if there are even special buildings for the aqueduct district at all, maybe sewers?

So considering that boni to amenities support wide gameplay, we have for expansive civs so far the Aztec (ULA, UB in entertainment district), Brazil (free entertainment district) and now Rome (free bathes). And considering the playstyle, they can be by now the fastest to establish a wide empire early on, maybe only contested by the Aztec depending on how good they can farm builders.

The Legion itself is strong as it is I think. Sure, other UU might have a bigger bonus, but a lot of them are very situational. The only concern I have is, that Legions probably need iron and I hope the lack of it will have changed compared to the Lets Plays of the Preview Press build.
They might not be that strong in the pure offense, but every civ without access to iron or horses and which dont have an other UU to counter it might have its problems to deal with it. The biggest advantage I think is, that it will be very hard to get rid of the advancement of the legions, because if they go in the defense, they can insta pop a fortress way earlier then most of the other civs (only china gets an earlier defense bonus with the great wall and only on its border edges). And I think most military advances wont just be Legions itself, they will probably supported by archers, catapults and maybe horses. The first both will greatly benefit from the defense bonus.

The only open point for me is still, how will legions and military engineers build roads? In the UI of the Legion there is symbol with a gear-wheel and an arrow. Might that be the button to construct roads? Maybe you have to draw a line like someone already mentioned? I personally dont think, that one road tile will need a whole charge, that would need quite a big amount of legions/military engineers to make actual use of it. Maybe it is a quarter of a charge, so you might lose the ability to build forts with a Legion who began to build roads. Or it will just need time (one tile per turn). But that might not prevent to mass spam roads in your territory like in old days (Civ 4 and prior). So it might be, that you maybe can only build roads between cities even with Legions/military engineers, but you can chose the path where it is going?

Still very uncertain about it and Im quite excited how Firaxis will handle it.

 

[dturtle1]

@ Paramecium.. Yeah England and Germany ATM are the only Civ''s that can run 4 pop double trade route cities. Germany on top of this gets the Hansa Harbor/Commerce/Hansa is huge adjacency boni as each one is major for the other. Tight/Wide/Coastal Germany is going to be a Economic and production powerhouse You build a couple Tall/Spread Cities Focused on Science and Culture and you can still build tight whilst having tiles for your super cities as you only need 4 pop in your satellite Cities to get significant benefit.. Really looking forward to a trade focused Germany, its gonna be the bomb

On topic

I am a Monument Guy in Civ5 too. though i should make more scouts. Really like the design of Civ6 Rome even if it is a bit generic outside of settling Cities. I am also a rapid forward settling player too. If i see a mountain next to a River with Luxes between me and the A.I ....IT IS MINE , go build your 2 bit city in the tundra, this one is mine. Rome is perfect for my "default" play.

When playing against Rome the best bet is just to not let him settle. Harass is Settlers until he has no choice but to Guard them. If he founds a city...raze it before he gets walls and can defend it. Monty, Tomyris, Cleopatra, Kongo,. All would be pretty good counters Vs Rome.

Monty VS Rome, 1vs1 on a small (4 Civs )Pangea Map, (A.I only). I think will be pretty cool. You would have this slow build up where they both just expanding as fast as possible then Boom...fight time Monty gets a slight disadvantage being that he doesnt get too much use out of early Eagle Warrior however as long as he is aggressively Expanding(as he should) the extra Luxes will make up for it. Trajan will just do his thing until Monty comes over the Hill with supercharged Luxe Warriors and you know they wont like each other

 

[rastak]

Dturtle1, but what if AI Scythia is your other neighbor? Harassing Rome could land 6-8 horseman at your door.

 

[dturtle1]

Pay him off to attack Rome ... more the merriier

 

[stealth_nsk]

Pay him off to attack Rome ... more the merriier

We don't know about diplomacy enough to say whether it's possible.

 

[dturtle1]

We can definitely assume it is possible though. Please name ....any 4X strategy game where you cant ask a third party to join your war...any

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

They keep many diplomacy options locked to certain civics such as open borders and casus belli.

 

[stealth_nsk]

We can definitely assume it is possible though. Please name ....any 4X strategy game where you cant ask a third party to join your war...any

It's very exploitable feature, so most games which care about balance tend to have some limits on it. The most common limit is - you may be unable to ask to have a war against a civ you're not at war with. Plus it may require some kind of alliance with a civ you're asking to do so.

Either of those limits will make it impossible to force early-game Scythia to attack Rome.

 

[SJSerio]

We don't know about diplomacy enough to say whether it's possible.

Ed has talked about how with the agendas it outta fun to play the different AIs against each other. With that said, is day that it is a safe bet that you will be able to negotiate a war between two civs.

I hired you to start a war! It is a prestigious line of work with a long and glorious tradition!
- Vizzini, The Princess Bride

Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk

 

[Morningcalm]

It would seem that you are dropping the subject because you know nothing about the subject.

There is actually is not a lot of material from historians that has survived about Trajan. I looked through Cassius Dio, Tacitus and Pliny the Younger amongst others but couldn't find any references to his physique. Certainly there is information on his predessor Nerva and his successor Hadrian in regards to their health and physique. All I could find was the references to Trajan being overly fond of wine, war and little boys.

Have you tried using a Google image search? The closest image to Trajan's current in-game appearance is from a bust (with laurel wreath) from baths in Ankara. This bust was created shortly before Trajan died. Wikipedia states (under the Death and Succession section of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan ) that Trajan's health declined in 117, "something publicly acknowledged by the fact that a bronze bust displayed at the time in the public baths of Ancyra showed him clearly aged and emaciated."

So when I referred to Trajan's in-game representation as a "time of death" Trajan, I was barely joking. The artists made no effort to portray Trajan in his prime, just as they for Pericles showed him basically at the time of death.

Other extant busts of Trajan show a robust, round-faced man with a serious expression and a distinctive hairstyle. Though many Roman emperors had statues idealized to some degree, the less-than-perfect facial appearance of Trajan to me seems an indication of accuracy (just as the elongated features of Akhenaton on extant busts, while potentially exaggerated, likely also resembled the real ruler more closely than other oft-idealized statues portrayinf ancient rulers).

 

[dturtle1]

It's very exploitable feature, so most games which care about balance tend to have some limits on it. The most common limit is - you may be unable to ask to have a war against a civ you're not at war with. Plus it may require some kind of alliance with a civ you're asking to do so.

Either of those limits will make it impossible to force early-game Scythia to attack Rome.

You didnt name any Also you are at War with Rome, thats why you want Scythia to attack Rome, so you dont fight on two fronts.

Maybe there is Culture Tech limits on whether you can propose third party wars. It wasn't In Civ5, It is not in any Total War game, It is not in a Endless Legend...Please name these "balanced" Strategy Games where Third party war is unlocked.

In this current scenario i may not be able convince Scythia to go War against Rome and in that case Scythia becomes the more immediate threat over Rome. I am not going to leave my Home City/Cities totally undefended. In most case i will know that Scythia is building up her army and i will have put in measures in place. You can be damn sure though i wont at least proposition her to do my dirty work for me

 

[lindsay40k]

I can't see the advantage of having forts to protect territory unless built at chokepoints or in a long string close together. In any other circumstances I see nothing to stop opponents just going round them.

'Going around them" = "getting funnelled into crossfires"

Also build forts in your fall back location, you can engage in battle with ranged and line units then withdraw behind your blocker units

 

[Martinus]

Maybe Legions used to have +10 but were the ones nerfed because with a fort they would have been unbeatable?

 

[Craig_Sutter]

I still won't believe the AI will use the fort building ability until I see it... Civ 5 AI Legions never did.

 

[Plus Ultra]

I still won't believe the AI will use the fort building ability until I see it... Civ 5 AI Legions never did.

Don't worry, they'll be programmed to use them.

Effectively? Not a chance.