Rome!!!!!!!!!

[LionQ]

Originally posted by Caeser_Augustus
hey i thought this was gonna be a story?!

Yes, it WAS. But then I showed up and said something about bad spelling and grammar and then it went in a discussion about that. I've already said we should continue with the real subject, but certain people continue and so do I.

 

[LionQ]

Originally posted by zeeter


This is kind of harsh. There are many people in America who don't speak or write english grammatically well. Many of these people are from homes where it was more important to leave school and work to support the family than to go to school to learn how to write well. Also, there is a large population here who grew up basically on the streets. If you hang around with people who speak a certain way, you're going to begin to speak that way.

We can learn all the English we want in school, but when we go home and our families are all speaking Spanish or Chinese, its difficult to retain what was learned in English.

I have, in haste, probably typed grammatically incorrect posts here or ones with mispelled words. And my dad's an english professor (retired)!

Does this mean that these people should be banned from posting to civ-fanatics for bad grammar and spelling? I don't think that is fair. Its also not fair to criticize these people. There probably are many things that you do that these people do better. Maybe this person is a roofer. You may be able to spell better than him, but he can put you to shame patching a roof.

I've already said that the US is the symbol of the English language for Dutchman. I guess every European thinks that way, also people from Portugal.

 

[Portuguese]

Originally posted by zeeter


This is kind of harsh. There are many people in America who don't speak or write english grammatically well. Many of these people are from homes where it was more important to leave school and work to support the family than to go to school to learn how to write well. Also, there is a large population here who grew up basically on the streets. If you hang around with people who speak a certain way, you're going to begin to speak that way.

We can learn all the English we want in school, but when we go home and our families are all speaking Spanish or Chinese, its difficult to retain what was learned in English.

I have, in haste, probably typed grammatically incorrect posts here or ones with mispelled words. And my dad's an english professor (retired)!

Does this mean that these people should be banned from posting to civ-fanatics for bad grammar and spelling? I don't think that is fair. Its also not fair to criticize these people. There probably are many things that you do that these people do better. Maybe this person is a roofer. You may be able to spell better than him, but he can put you to shame patching a roof.

1st, sorry for the delay. I don't have access to internet at home and so I had to wait till september...

2nd, bad grammar and spelling shouldn't mean bans. Please don't over react to my words. You and I are free to make how many mistakes we want. se wat i maen.

3rd, if you learn a language at school since you're little and you have to know English since little to understand the world outside, you should know it. I, in Portugal, must know Portuguese. You, in US, should know English.

4th, if you didn't know well English, I don't blaim you. But I can make a comment about it. If you complain, I apologised, since I'm not so proud to don't apologise.

I'm not mad at you.
I just wish you understand my point of view and, preferibly, agree with it

 

[Portuguese]

Originally posted by CivilopediaCity

I've already said that the US is the symbol of the English language for Dutchman. I guess every European thinks that way, also people from Portugal.

Yes, we do. Of course.

But if they want to teach Portuguese at schools, I'd very glad.
Portuguese is difficult to learn to foreigners, but if you learn it in your childhood, you can speak other languages easier (same for German language, I think)

I'd like to see it... maybe some day...

 

[zeeter]

Originally posted by Portuguese

3rd, if you learn a language at school since you're little and you have to know English since little to understand the world outside, you should know it. I, in Portugal, must know Portuguese. You, in US, should know English.

Not to beat a dead horse, but there are literally hundreds of cultures in the USA. Mostly immigrants. If you walk into a Chinese restaurant there will often be only one or two people who even speak English. Some of the younger ones speak english very well, but the first and even second generation people often speak broken english or no english at all.

The same goes for spanish families. Whole sections of cities in Miami and southern california do not speak english, or do so poorly.

I'm not sure how many different cultures there are in Portugal because I've never been there. But over here everyone is from somewhere else, thus the mulitude of cultures. Many of these people are more interested in making money to support their families so that their young ones can have a better life. Leaning to speak and write english well is not a top priority.

 

[Portuguese]

In Portugal there are people from: ex-colonies in Africa(speak Portuguese), Brasilians and Timorenses (speak bad Portuguese), Eslaves (Russian or similar, much more common since 1989) and Gipsys (they seem to us as hispanians seem to US people). Portugal is small but there are plenty of differences between different regions (Minho, Oporto, Center, Interior, Lisbon, After Tagus, Algarve, Madeira and Azores).
However, Portuguese is essencial to live here. One of this days, I heard in the news that a former vice-minister of work of an ex-soviet republic is working as a stonemason here due to lack of Portuguese. And all the labor in major contructing companies is done by eslaves who have degrees in medicine, economy or something like that.

I see TV (US series...) so I think I know what you are speaking about. Chinatowns, Little Italies and Hispanian ghetos proliferate in US biggest cities. Inside them, people doesn't need to speak in English. Even Portugal has a street like that (in New Jersey, next to New York) where you don't need to speak other language than Portuguese and the 10th of June is celebrated.
Speaking english is not so important in US because a larger country can support larger comunities that can support easily non-english speaking persons.

However, you cannot escape from this: English is dominant!
The US president does all his speaches in US English (he only said some words in spanish during the campaign to capt votes from some of the 20.000.000 hispanians the US has...)
The main TVs transmit in English. Other TVs have little share from market niches.
The institutions like the supreme court and the army have names in English.
...

I know English is not the ONLY language in US. And even that some people live in America without even knowing English.
But to put in question that English is the official US language... I would like (Who vote for Portuguese? ), but I can not.

 

[gugalpm]

Brazilians speak bad portuguese...
Sorry, but I don't think so...
Do you really know brazilians?

Adding to the point... the reference for english is not US...
English = England, go figure!

 

[zeeter]

Thats not exactly the point that I was making. I'll not argue with you that English is the predominant language. It most certainly is. However, there is no document stating that English is the national language. There was talk of making the national language French at one point, but I don't know where that came from. This was centuries ago.
I was simply trying to point out that there are many people who do not speak english in the USA and do quite well. Granted, most of these people perform menial labor such as fruit picking, cooking (behind the scenes), or some other job where they have no contact with the public. Some, however, advance quite nicely in the church or within their communities. Some fewer still are able to advance by way of starting a business and going national using bi-lingual public personas.
What I'm saying here is that it is not necessary to speak, read, or write english to live in the USA.

 

[Jason The King]

No, it certainly is not necissary to speak english in the U.S. for those jobs, but to do less labor work and do something to do with huge buisnesses, it is almost essintial to know english, or you simply won't get hired.

No, English is not the language of the U.S. officially, but it is behind the scene

This does not mean it is a sin per-say to not know how to write or speak English, as a great minority don't, but it is essential to prosper.

-Jason

 

[Portuguese]

OK Zeeter. I guess you are right on that.

Jason the King: Prosper?!? Interesting thought.

gugalpm: eu estava a tentar explicar ao americano que português e brasileiro são diferentes. E sim, os brasileiros não sabem falar português como um português. "Bad" foi talvez uma má palavra, mas que os portugueses topam os brasileiros a léguas pelo sotaque, isso, tens que admitir. E eu estava a falar de "US english", o que é diferente de "English". Procura porto de mar nas duas linguas por exemplo e verás habor e harbour. Nem o bilião tem o mesmo número de zeros...

 

[gugalpm]

You think that english is essential to prosper...
Open you eyes...

Entendido portuguese (seria melhor falar português?)... Apenas entendo que as duas línguas são suficientemente diferentes pra não compararmos quem fala melhor... Claro que admiro e muito o português de Portugal. por exemplo: nem todos os brasileiros têm o péssimo hábito de usar você no lugar de tu... o povo do sul usa o tu, ainda que de maneira errônea...
entendes? um dia ainda visitarei meus ancestrais em Portugal...

 

[Portuguese]

Gugalpm: OK. Eu tabém gosto muito dos brasileiros. Excepto talvez os do futebol de praia E fico feliz por saber isso dos do sul. Porque é que não se fazem telenovelas lá?!?

 

[Jason The King]

Wow, portugese is a lot like Spanish (I guess since it is surrounded by Spain!) I can almost understand it.

And yes, it is a necesity to know English to prosper in America. What does "open your eyes" have to do with anything, my eyes are opened, and I don't see what you are talking about.

 

[Jason The King]

For what gugalpm said: For example about something to do with Brazil using something, the or America. lol

 

[Portuguese]

Jason: Portugal is not surrounded by Spain and Portuguese is not similar to spanish due to that. They come both from latin and so they are similar like 2 brothers are similar.
And do not associate me to Spain. A Portuguese hates that. And I'm one of those...
No hard fellings about it, but try not to associate me with that people again, ok?

Oh, and could you explain the "no fundamental but needed to prosper" thought?
Thx

 

[zeeter]

Uh oh. You don't wanna say Portugal is like spain. Thats for sure. They get fired up about that!

 

[Portuguese]

Thx Zeeter!

 

[Arduano]

What exactly do you mean by "that people"?
I am spanish, so I suggest you watch your words!

 

[zeeter]

Could this be the start of a Spain/Portugal war??? Call Geraldo now!!

 

[Portuguese]

Who is Geraldo?!?