RR-01 World Conquest

[Hajime]

My apologies.

Newbie mistake - confused SGs in my head.

I don't care either way. I'd go for the Immortal route, personally - GA might sting a bit later, but for now, if we can use that GA to significantly reduce the Iro's city-area and take it for ourselves, it'll be worth the early-game GA. At least IMO.

 

[Bede]

I should have looked at the save before opening me big mouth.

A seven city GA with the population we have is going to hurt later, but with all the resources sunk into Immortals we will have to make the best of it.

Housekeeping ifrst: swap Gordium to a settler, no waste in shields and it will preserve our population from malaria. Get Persepolis back onto the settler/worker track. Setting slaves to clear jungle is a waste. Use them to run roads into the jungle then set natives to chopping. At any rate our workers would be better used in the east or in the core.

Trade: trade the tech we have for all the gold in the world and Map Making then set science to the highest rate affordable, run a deficit until we are out of money. Finish Code of Laws at max then go to either Polytheism or Currency at minimum. I would prefer Currency but it's not my call.

Get a galley in the water from Bactra and, if you want to, build libaries in the eastern towns, though I probably wouldn't bother as the growth potential there is just too small. Put a decent garrison into them to prevent the Iro from testing the defenses. Culture flipping risk with 100% native citizens and MP garrisons is a 0% risk right now. Nobody in the world has enough culture to be a threat.

Use the GA resulting from the first attack on the Iro to build a freakin' awesome number of Immortals and take over the continent. There are three towns that can do it (I'm not counting Persepolis) so just let them build till there isn't enough space in the realm to hold them (that would be about 90 and it will take about 20 turns to do it) Take 'em all. Iro first, then the Sumerian cities on the plain, then the Byzantines, then the Romans, then the Mongols. We are four techs from the Middle Ages, probably 60-80 turns, our objective should be to be mopping up the survivors by the time Feudalism rolls around. (BTW Roman legions will be as hard a nut to crack as pikes and Rome has already hooked up the iron. Donlt take time for a government change till the ethnic cleansing is done.

 

[TimBentley]

Having a golden age now would waste 3 spt and 4 gpt in Persepolis due to despotism. It would waste an average of 1 spt and 1 gpt in our three other major cities. That does not take account of future growth, of course.

A 4/3/2 stack as Bede suggested would take about 8 turns to build. Of course this can be reduced since other cities have archers and spearmen.

Horseback riding is worth about 179 gold to the Iroquois. CivAssist says its estimated cost is 160 gold. But according to my spreadsheet they would value map making more.

Iroquois have two sources of horses; one is near Allegheny.

Anyways, since everyone else says we can use immortals and since we have many built up (avoiding the GA would take some work), we can use them.

 

[fbouthil]

All right! I think we now have a concensus.

Game plan (second try):

• Gordium & Persepolis switch to settlers.
• Trade for the gold of everyone and set research to max. Only exception: Iroquois who I will left behind in hope they cannot get HR before we remove their horse. A long shot, but worth it, IMHO.
• Produce enough spear for defense and then DoW on Iroquois, with settlers to replace the destroyed cities.

I will play right now but will check every few turns for comments.

 

[Bede]

Sounds like a plan.

Don't forget to open embassies before the DoW.

 

[Hajime]

Ditto Bede.

Sounds like a good plan.

 

[fbouthil]

1000BC (preturn)

Switch Gordium & Persepolis to settlers.
Switch Arbela to spear, the other 2 cities would produce an immortal in only 1 more turn than a spear, so no change for them.
Move a few troops around so the best troops are on the border.
Trade lit + philo + 175g to Bizantium for mm.
Trade philo to Mongols for 412g
Trade philo to Romans for 171g
Research to 70%, we need the rest for lux.
Switch Sidon and Bactra to galleys.
I am not too sure what to do with Tyre, but not workers, so barrack for now.​

IBT

Persepolis: Settler-> worker
Gordium: Settler -> worker
Sumerians finish the oracle and starts the pyramids.
Many civs cascade to pyramids or TGLib.​

975BC (1)

mm to give some shields from Persepolis to other cities.
I thought I could lower lux with a pop of 5 in Persepolis, but no.​

IBT

Pasargadea: Immo -> Immo​

950BC (2)

DoW on Iroquois.
Bring 6 Immo & 1 archer & 1 settler next to Allegheny​

IBT

Persepolis: worker -> settler
Arbela & Antioch: spear -> spear
Aztec completes the pyramids.​

925BC (3)

Allegheny is still size 2 (no pop-rush!). Capture it with no losses: GA. [dance]
Most of the attack force goes toward Oil Springs.
Switch the spears to immo.
Research to 80%.
Switch Persepolis to worker since we did not need use a settler this turn.​

IBT

Persepolis: worker -> immo (I think I can squeeze one before it grows too much.)
Mongols completes MoM.​

900BC (4)

Capture Oil Springs killing without any damage. Why in hell did I think I needed settlers?
Send the rest of the attack force next to Niagara Falls.​

IBT

Furs are connected.
Lose an immo to archer.
Bactra: galley -> harbor​

875BC (5)

CrpMapStats says Oil Spring has 1% chance of flipping to Bizantium, so I switch it to temple.
Conquer Niagara Falls without losses. We have 2 new slaves. The second horse is W-SW of Niagara Falls. [dance]​

IBT

Pasargadea: immo-> immo
Gordium: worker -> galley (would complete another worker before it gets to size 2)​

850BC (6)

Kill the wandering spear​

IBT

Persepolis: immo -> worker
Arbela & Antioch: immo -> immo
Sumer learns const and trade it to Bizantium for gold.​

825BC (7)

Trade lit + mm + 122g to Sumer for const.​

IBT

Research: CoL -> curr, in 11t.
Persepolis: worker -> worker​

800BC (8)

Send 3 immo + 1 archer near Cattaraugus . There are wounded Sumerians nearby.​

IBT

Bizantium asks us to move our galley. I say I agree, but I won?t.
Persepolis: worker->immo​

775BC (9)

I destroy Cattaraugus. I will send a settler soon.
Move next to Salamanca. It has 3 cows inside its borders!
Also move next to Mauch Chunk, but with only 1 immo + 1 archer.​

IBT

Sidon: galley -> barrack
A spear + archer pair moves out of Salamanca. I guess they want to attack Sumerians.​

750BC (10)

Kill a spear in Mauch Chunk, but there is another in the city. The immo should heal and go back.
Capture Salamanca. Capital relocated to Mauch Chunk
Kill the 2 units next to Salamanca and get my first promotion to elite.
I see there is enough space for 2 cities in the hole made by Cattaraugus, so I switch Persepolis to settler.​

Conquered Iroquois territory:


Sorry, I got carried away and forgot to check here every few turns. I did not established embassies, but Salamanca was not building a wonder when I conquered it, so there is no harm done. The Sumerians helped us for the last 2 cities (Cattaraugus had only an archer as defense).

The immo next to Persepolis is going toward Mauch Chunk. There is a settler there to replace that city.

The settler near Niagara Falls was going to settle between the 2 cows.

I thought the settler being constructed in Persepolis should settle NE of the lake (where an immo is). Some slaves are already connecting the future city. Try to block Sumerians settlers with the troops nearby.

After the 2 cities are founded, we can go after someone else. I would prefer Bizantines since they are applying cultural pressure on some of our cities but Sumerians have troops near us and may declare war on us before we get the chance of deciding.

 

[fbouthil]

Roster:

TimBentley - up next
Bede - on deck
t3h_m013 (the mole) - on the wheel
rrau - on the plank
Hajime - in the pit
fbouthil - off the hook



I brought settlers with my attack forces for every attack except Cattaraugus and it was the only one that got destroyed. The fog was preventing me from determining its size. Another example of Murphy's law!

 

[TimBentley]

Good job on the Iroquois. Got it. I will play tomorrow. I probably will comment before playing as well.

 

[Bede]

Nice job, fb.

I would cancel the temple in Oil Springs and the barracks elsewhere and build catapaults and workers. Local culture is not going to reduce flip risk to the Byzantines. I would use garrisons instead.

I think continuing the Anschluss against the Byzantines is the way to go., though the Sumerians may change our plans for us. They want that Iro land so filling it with Persian towns is really important. Also I don't see any reason to take Perepolis off settler/worker building, and may be not settlers if we captured enough Iro slaves.

The banana plantations At Gordium should be irrigated BTW, with water from the lake to the south.

 

[t3h_m013]

its all looking good (Y) just hope i dont get the job of the rome persia wars...
i would have to say go to war with sumeria as the units in the open will be easy pickings and there maybe some settler pairs to take soon.

 

[t3h_m013]

Also I don't see any reason to take Perepolis off settler/worker building, and may be not settlers if we captured enough Iro slaves.

The banana plantations At Gordium should be irrigated BTW, with water from the lake to the south.

just to check, do you mean that if we capture enough slaves we can just make settlers???

 

[Bede]

Yeah, but it takes three slaves to march the productivity of a single native worker IIRC.

 

[fbouthil]

Nice job, fb.

I would cancel the temple in Oil Springs and the barracks elsewhere and build catapaults and workers. Local culture is not going to reduce flip risk to the Byzantines. I would use garrisons instead.

...

The banana plantations At Gordium should be irrigated BTW, with water from the lake to the south.

CrpMapStat says that it would take a garrison of 26 to prevent flips, that is why I decided on a temple, but if it would probably be too late if we go after Bizantines right now. Local culture there is going to reduce flip chances. The basic factor in calculating flip chances is the number of pop + number of tiles in the 20 workable tiles of the city. The basic factor is then multiply by many factors like distance to the capital, global culture, etc. By expanding the borders around that city, the basic factor for the bizantines would be 0 so no flip risks.

I did not lose any immo when attacking. I did not see any point in building catapults before we start thinking of going after the romans. I thought we could get more cities building immo, so that is why I started building barracks.

About the banana plantation, well, all I have to say in my defense is: Oups! My mistake. I actually started a galley because the city was not growing fast enough to pump workers and did not even think about it. :shakehead

As for Persepolis building something else than workers/settlers, the GA is giving that city enough shields to squeeze a immo (3t) from time to time:

Size Production
4.5 to 6___immo (3t)
6 to 5.5___worker (1t)
5.5 to 5___worker (1t)
5 to 4.5___worker (1t)

I think it should also work with 1 immo, 2 workers, 1 settler (3t).

The important thing is to always keep a +5f surplus and not getting to size 7. Just make sure Persepolis is under size 5 when starting an immo and follow it with workers.

BTW, it has been a long time before I saw the AI playing as stupidly. It did not pop-rush any defense, it killed an immo 2t from Niagara Falls with an archer instead of attacking those next to it to delay us, sent 1spear + 1 archer out of Salamanca when I was about to attack it, etc. Actually, the spear + archer had a settler with them when they moved out, I think. When it was my turn to play, the settler was gone (probably disbanded).

 

[Bede]

My thinking on the cats is that the Byzatine cities are going to be bigger and tougher. (Fortified spears in towns are D3). IIRC the only Iro city larger than 2 or 3 would have been Salamanca.

Thanks for the GA based calculator. I am always annoyed at the way GA's mess up my carefully calculated settler farms, and I've always been too lazy to do the figgerin'.

Oil City is right next door to the Byzantine capitol so flip risk would be high if the citizens were Byzantine regardless of the level of local culture. Since they are not I don't think it matters in this case. (I don't think Dianthus' handy tool considers citizenship when calculating flip risk.) I would build a library instead of a temple if you want culture, anyway.

 

[fbouthil]

Well, Niagara Falls was size 4 or 5 when I conquered it. I have put it to starving duties to prevent flips, but may have been unnecessary since they will be wiped out soon.

On pults, Constantinople is size 6, but could be size 7 when we attack it. If it was for only one city, I would not think it matters, but Sumer has 3 cities on hills and their capital is also close to size 7, so I now think we need some.

My apologies.

Newbie mistake - confused SGs in my head.

Don't blame yourself. Not having a clear team game plan is a team mistake, not the problem of a single player.

Bizantium have been building 2 wonders for some time and Sumerians just started one. If we go after the Sumerians, that could permit the Bizantines to finish wonders we could conquer afterwards.

Bizantines have sent a Dromon toward Mongol territory. If Sumer sends a galley toward the romans, we do not need the blockade anymore. We have enough money to upgrade the warriors, but I think it would be better to use regular warrior to control happiness.

 

[TimBentley]

I think I'll build a library in Oil Springs, since that will reduce the flip chance from 1.314% to about 0.22% (once the borders expand). It seems we are at a significant cultural disadvantage. Wipe out the last Iroquois city, and prepare the army for the next war. Irrigate the banana plantation. Build some cats. Build some immortals in Persepolis in addition to workers and settlers. I guess that's my plan for this afternoon.

 

[t3h_m013]

sounds good, pults and immortals for the larger cities and just immortals for smaller ones.. time metinks.

 

[fbouthil]

This map is insane! At least 11 cows nearby and more than half the cities on rivers! We will barely need aqueducts! This is going to be the easiest emperor game ever!!!

 

[rrau]

excellent turns

Do we have enough workers and guards to start roading through some of the jungle and hills towards Sumer?

This is one of the times where I wish we could still trade maps with MM with C3C.