RR-01 World Conquest

[t3h_m013]

i think that at the moment theres not much space for settlers... i can only ee that we may need some during the sumer war, which will be soon... so make a settler factory . Theres plenty of immos to take on the sumerians, i think larger trubechet stacks are more important than building more immos, maybe get 6-8 trebuchets for every stack we intend to make. are we going to have 1 main stack? if so i think we should go straight down the middle, take the capital early (the hills willbe to our advantage) and then work our way outwards. maybe take sumer and then split into 2 stacks?

 

[Hajime]

Well, my parts just got here, and I'm going to upgrade it all tonight.

This SG might be a bit touch and go, but rrau has to go before me. I think it should be fine in the long run .

 

[t3h_m013]

sall good, as long as theres no onforeseen problems with your pc you shoud be ok in time for your turns? other wise just post and you can skip or swap

 

[Hajime]

Nods.

So long as none of the parts are DOA, and barring any driver incompatibilities, I should be up by tonight.

 

[TimBentley]

Agreed on signing peace with Byzantines for now. Here's a deal I like: selling monotheism to Sumeria for engineering and 125 to 150 gold (I didn't bother finding the exact amount). Trebuchets and crossing rivers is good. And if Sumeria builds cathedrals, it means they aren't building military units.

 

[fbouthil]

The Bizantine war is looking good. I would have preferred if we went after Ceasarea before the toundra cities, but 3 new cities is pretty good.

@TheMole: A city is destroyed only if it is size 1 and its borders have not expanded.

We are keeping way too much garrison. IMHO, cities next to another civ border need 2 units for garrison, those on the coast only 1 and the other 0, unless they are too big and we need units to keep the population happy.

To reduce flips, Adrianople should be starved or build a worker once the lib is finished. Personally, I usually starve cities to size 1 after I conquer them.

@TimBentley: What Zulus?

I like TheMole's plan of attacking the center than splitting in two. I think he meant Ur, not Sumer. We will have to see just how difficult Ur's conquest will be before deciding it, but it sounds like a good idea.

I just realized that Agade and Umma are surrounded by mountains and jungles, so those cities will have to be conquered without pults. Bad-tibira is also unaccessible to pults (marshes). Therefore, we might as well build more immo...

 

[Bede]

A few detail notes:

1) Niagra Falls is building an immortal but has no barracks. That city seems to be a really good location for our FP. Flood plinas for growth, lots of shield potential in the plains and Oases.

2) We need to think baout the long term plan for Antioch. It's building an acqueduct right now. Maybe it should stay on Immortal duty for a while, give the food bonuses to Niagra Falls, then at some point we can peel workers off it and shrink it down so that Pasargadae and Arbela can grow.

3) The plains cows at Salamanca need to be watered right away.

4) We need to get the Byzantines out of Constantinople and Adrianople either by starvation (forced emigration) or worker training or both

5) Nicaea amd Dariush Kabit need harbors, then ,maybe courthouses. As soon as we learn Engineering, replace the mines with forest, though the shield waste may make that not worth the worker turns.

6) Concur with the plan to take the last two visible Byzantine towns then make peace. We won't get both in peace negotiations as one is the capitol.

7) Turn down science to minimum and raise the luxury tax to get everybody back to producing food. It's too early specialists.

8) I would be tempted to shift our research priority to Theology at minimum. It is the most expensive of the next available and Engineering is already known and we can buy it from Sumeria for everything we have plus Monotheism, though I don't see a compelling reason to do so and don't see a need to feed the cultural monster that is Sumeria right now.

Nice progress overall.

 

[TimBentley]

@TimBentley: What Zulus?

I must have been thinking of a different game. Where I wrote Zulus, I meant Sumeria.

1) Niagra Falls is building an immortal but has no barracks. That city seems to be a really good location for our FP. Flood plinas for growth, lots of shield potential in the plains and Oases.

That does look like a good FP city. It has a river for gold as well.

It is the most expensive of the next available and Engineering is already known and we can buy it from Sumeria for everything we have plus Monotheism, though I don't see a compelling reason to do so and don't see a need to feed the cultural monster that is Sumeria right now.

Actually, Sumeria will pay us.

 

[rrau]

Haven't played yet, I'm doing the preflight checks and Sumeria will trade Engineering for Monarchy plus 88g.

What do you think of doing the trade the turn before DoW so they are in a government change. They are still in depotism so will leap at changing governments.

Also will then turn around and sell them Monotheism for all their gold right before DoW.

Also I think flips will be a problem (see below). What do you think about raze and replace for the Sumerian cities (except Ur which has the oracle)?

 

[Bede]

A tactic which has always served me well is not to trade for technology unless there is some other deal available from someone else. In other words is there anybody else out there who can pay us something for Engineering when we get it?

The attack during anarchy following a government tech trade is a good one. You have gained two to four turns on the other guy and crippled any counter attacks.

Flips will be a problem with Sumeria especially. Raze and replace plays hob with the other nations' attitude but that is their problem.

Do we really need the Oracle? It won't help our culture and I don't see us building a whole lot of temples anyway.

 

[Hajime]

Well, I'm back. Currently getting everything up and working, but I've got internet access now .

Bede: Interesting tactic. I'm definitely going to work on incorporating it into my strategies - sounds effective and a good rule of thumb.

Rrau: Raze and replace? Great. Do it. Who cares about what the other civ thinks when we've wiped the floor with them already? Having a weak civ pissed off doesn't bother me .

 

[rrau]

preflight check

MM Persiopolis back to settler factory
Switch Antioch from aquaduct to Immortals
Start starving with scientists in Adrionople and Constantinople
Switch Niagra Falls to FP in 38 - will need some more garrison for happiness, so pulled spear out of Antioch.
Science to 0% for engineering in 46, lux to 40%

ibt:
Mongols politely ask us to remove our troops, agree
Parsagade immo => 1 turn worker
Antioch immo => immo
Sidon immo => immo
Sardis cat => cat

turn 1 (130bc)

Galley moves into Heraclea's waters. It's size 2, tundra, with a fish
move stack of cats and immo towards Caesarea
Start gathering a second stack in Hamadan

ibt:

Salamanca Library => courthouse
Parsagadae worker => library
Bactra cat => cat
Tyre immo => immo

turn 2 (110bc)

Found Ghulaman
Stack arrives by Ceasarea

ibt:

Immortal defends perfectly against 3hp archer and is promoted to elite

turn 3 (90bc)

Bombard Ceasarea - only 1 cat had a hit . Lost 2 vet immo taking Caesarea. After capturing it found a settler and 2 workers hiding inside

ibt:

Persepolis settler => settler
Arbella immo => immo
Oil Springs courthouse => rax
Hear that the Aztecs completed the Great Wall

turn 4 (70bc)

healing and moving.
Our galley sees a Byzantine spear heading N through Mongol territory

ibt:

Allegheny immo => immo
Antioch immo => immo
Sidon immo => immo
Sardis cat => cat

turn 5 (50bc)

sci slider to 10 % as scientists have starved
Found Zohak => library
Found Istakhr => rax

ibt:

Parsagade library => immo
Gordium worker => worker
Samaria harbor => galley

turn 6 (30bc)

move stack next to Varna
MM Sardis. Hire scientist - doesn't make sense to spend 18 more gpt to keep 1 cit in the whole empire happy. Also lets me decrease science to 0%
Change Sardis from cat to spear for MP duty

ibt:

Bactra cat => rax
Tyre immo => immo
Hamadan library => rax

turn 7 (10bc)

Bombard Varna with an unprecedented 75% success rate . It has a 2hp spear and a 1 hp spear defending it.
Attack Varna with 2 of 3 elites and capture it plus 105g. No promotions
Varna => library and starvation diet.

Well someone learned republic and Feudalism and traded them around - I think it was the Byzantines as they suddenly have a lot of money.
Sumer's already in anarchy, so there goes my plan.

Trade Sumer monarchy for Engineering
Peace with Byzantines for 316g. They wouldn't turn loose of a tech unless I gave them 2 of ours - not going to happen
Trade Rome Monarchy for silks and 6g

ibt:

Persepolis settler => settler
Adrianople library => courthouse

turn 8 (10ad)

not much. Healing and moving

ibt:

Arbela immo => immo
Antioch immo => immo
Sidon immo => immo
Sardis spear => rax

turn 9 (30ad)

not much. Healing and moving. Fortified spear in Sardis for MP. MM sardis. Research to 10%.
Sumer is now a Republic.

ibt:

Pasargade immo => immo in 3. If you keep it MM like it is you can get an immo every 3 turns without any wasted shields.

turn 10 (50ad)

not much. Healing and moving.


Notes:

Immo S of Gordium is going there to give more protection.

Sumer will trade us Feudalism + 5g for Monotheism. Do the trade right before declaring war - we may be able to get more gold by waiting a couple turns and keep them from upgrading to maces.

You still have 5 immo and 4 cats (and a couple stray elite immo's) heading toward Hamadan. I would recommend waiting until they arrive before declaring war.

Sumer has 6 dyes hooked up so hopefully there's roads our cats can follow.

We have a Sumer archer fortified in our territory by Salamanca (from before border expansion). We currently have an option demanding they leave or declare war.
If we can get them to declare, they will have a lot of war weariness.

Also, maybe get some team input before playing about whether we have enough for 2 stacks. I think we do.
We could send the larger one through Kish to Ur and a smaller one to Grand River then up to Lagash and then it could rejoin the stack at Ur.
Regardless, both Ur and Lagash have iron near them and need to be captured/pillaged ASAP.

 

[fbouthil]

Do we really need the Oracle? It won't help our culture and I don't see us building a whole lot of temples anyway.

Interesting. Building lots of temples is useful when they are cheaper than lib and we are going for domination, but when going for conquest and scientific, I guess not. I would not replace cities that have useful buildings in it, like barracks, but for the other cities, go ahead and burn them to the ground.

 

[Hajime]

Got it.

Will take a closer look at it in a bit - installing Civ3 + Conquests atm

 

[TimBentley]

I would suggest upgrading our catapults to trebuchets. I think we may be able to split our forces in the way rrau suggested. Trade with Byzantines doesn't look promising at the moment (the Sumerian trade looks better), but if we trade technologies to them, it won't make it significantly more difficult to kill them. Meeting the other continent eventually would be nice. Raze and replace sounds good.

 

[t3h_m013]

defo upgrade to trebs. do we know where the sumeria iron is? disconnecting that would be a huge bonus (specially if they have pikemen.) maybe worth sending a galley for or somethnig

 

[fbouthil]

I am looking at the map and it is difficult to see where the river goes around Ur. By loading the game at 1500BC, we can see that it runs E of the city, not W. So the city can be attacked from the hills S, without the river penalty.

 

[t3h_m013]

i would say as a plan of action bring one of the galleys home (its almost circumnavigated the continent) and take a spear up to pillage the lagash iron can be pillaged in 3 turn with startign war with units in their borders.
then take a main stack, take kish and then take ur, im not sure where the ur iron is, but that wont be a problem once we've taken ur.
i think with trebuchet support we will defo have enough for 2 stacks. we will only need 3-4 immo (max) for medium size cities. but we can wait until we have taken ur to decide

 

[Bede]

I think our best play in the Sumeria war is one group Immortals, spears, or pikes oif we have them and cats (at least four cats in each group) up the coast to Lagash, and another group north from Niagra Falls towards Ur. Take a couple of settlers (or more) and a bunch of workers with each group. Once Ur has fallen start a third group up the east coast, also with workers and settlers.

 

[Hajime]

Turn 0, 50 AD: Traded Sumeria Monotheism for Feudalism + 5 gold. (Maybe they'll build cathedrals - HOPEFULLY!)
Turn 1, 70 AD:
Saw Sumeria planting an Archer stack near our land, prepping to get them pissed off at us.
Turn 2: Persepolis built a Settler.
Set it to an Immortal.
Oil Springs built a Barracks
Set it to an Immortal.
Tricked Sumeria into declaring war on us. Wiped the floor with their initial attack force sent into our lands (No health lost, no promos)
Sent a stack of units to the Hills near Kish, preparing to attack Kish then Ur. (Remove the capital early on, and grab their major source of iron!)
IBT: Archer attacked Immortal unit, managed to kill it with 1 hp left.
Turn 3: Pasargardae produced Immortals.
Set it to an Immortal.
Allegheny produced Immortals.
Set it to Immortals.
Arbela produced Immortals.
Set it to Immortals.
Antioch produced Immortals.
Set it to Immortals.
Sidon produced Immortals.
Set it to Immortals.
Began artillery bombartment on Kish - 2 successes.
Attacked Kish with Immortals - 1 health lost to Bombardment, no health lost to Enkidu
Attacked Kish with Immortals - Lost 3 health to Enkidu, killed it. Captured Kish, captured a Trebuchet.
Temporarily captured Kish so as to have a defensive spot for units - will abandon and replace next turn.
Killed Archer invading our territory.

IBT: Stupid Sumeria sends units into our territory - on our roads.

Turn 4: Gordium produces worker.
Set it to Worker.
Bactra produces Barracks
Set it to Immortals.
Abandoned Kish - created a new city with our Settler. NOTE: Kish had NO improvements.
Started Walls in Kish, and wishing for gold rush.
Attacked Enkidu with Veteran Immortals - Redlined it, lost barely.
Attacked Archer with Veteran Immortals - Archer died easily.
Attacked Archer with Veteran Immortals - Immortals died (?!?)
Attacked ARcher with Veteran Immortals - Down to 2 health.
Attacked redlined Enkidu with Veteran Immortals - Died, redlined the attacking Immo
Attacked 2hpArcher with Veteran Immortals - Archer died horribly.
Attacked Archer with vet Immo - Archer died horribly.
Began prepping for an invasion straight into Ur - all units to the hillside near Jinjan, the city formerly known as Kish, and preparing to go hill-hopping.
Prepared to take Grand River with a small force of Immos (Distraction for the comp more then anything.)

Turn 5: Tyre produced Immortals.
Set it to Immortals.

IBT: Medieval Infantry attacked Immo on Hills near CFKA Kish - got its ass beat by the Immo .

Turn 6: Perse produced Immortals. Set it to Worker.
Pasar produced Immortals. Set it to Immo again.
Samaria produced Galley. Set it to Galley.

IBT: Lots of AI movement, no attacks.

Turn 7:
Perse produced Worker
Set it to Settler.
Arbela produced Immortals.
Set it to Immortals.
Antioch produced Immortals.
Set it to Immortals.
Sidon produced Immortals.
Set it to Immortals.
Sardis produced Barracks.
Set it to Immortals.
Istakhr produced Barracks
Set it to Immortals.
Attacked Grand River Enkidu with Immo - no health lost, perfect kill.
Attacked Grand River Enkidu with Immo - 1 health lost
Razed Grand River - began preperation to hit Lagash
Began attacking Ur - No units lost!
Captured Ur - acquired Oracle. Razed it. Captured two workers in Ur.
Founded Borazjon on Ur's ruins.
Found a Medieval Infantry sneaking around our territory - killed it with Immo. Immo redlined, then promo'd to Elite - 2hp.

IBT: Lost Gordium to Sumeria, and 26 gold.

Turn 8: Sardis prepping to go into Civil Disordered Can't do anything but put an entertainer there temporarily - set it to Temple to address the problem.
Attacked Sumerian pain-in-the-ass Galley with our own, won with no health loss.

Turn 9: Salamanca prepping to go into civil disorder. Set an Entertainer there temporarily.
Various other sniping incidents - picking off archers, etc.

Turn 10: Archer attacked Immo, Archer died and Immo promo'd.
Perse produced Settler, sent it to the appropriate settling area.
Set it to Immos.
Salamanca produced Courthouse.
Set it to Worker - bleed off pop.
Went after Settler and caught it - sent it back to our territory.
Captured Lagash. - Our friends the Sumerians now lack iron completely to the best of my knowledge.
Kept Lagash - it had a spearman, and no chance of cultural flip according to the map. Captured about 8 workers from it.
Next player may or may not want to keep Lagash. I made a tactical error with it potentially - their call.

(Edit) Yeah, craptacular play. Didn't want to delay the game anymore, and had to move too fast for comfort.