Russia First Look [Peter]

[Danzo_87]

well they must have thought the extra tiles from the beginning is so powerful that other facets of his ability have to be toned down

 

[Lights]

No, I mean, Russia needs Great People to use one out of four of their uniques to the fullest extent. If you don't get Great People as Russia, then you're essentially sitting with a cheaper Holy Site, and nothing more. That's hardly a good bonus, if anything.

You can't compare that bonus alone. You need to take into account Russia's bonus too. +1 prod and faith from tundra. That allows to settle cities in tundra and be average cities instead of worthless cities. Now you take the pantheon that gives adjacency bonus to holy sites with tundra. And now you have a spammable unique holy district that will be generating tons of faith without gimping your ability to get other districts.

 

[vit_sin]

I always has this thinking that Russian's Lavra has the same meaning, concept and purpose as Arabia's Madrassa: both are educational centres with religion at focus.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Behind in tech/civic is not the same thing as losing and Peter ability mean you can let other civs do the teching and leach on them while you spend your resources in other stuff.

 

[homan1983]

Is it possible that a unique holy site is so powerful that they pretty much had to give them only +8 tiles and virtually nothing else to keep them balanced?

It may be, but then is it ok to give them 1 powerful trait and another good trait, then give them 2 very bad ones to balance out?

I think people would find it more fun if they had a bunch of different useful abilities that they could see boosting their civ and directing their gameplay.

Another question is, is it still confirmed that the unique district also doesn't raise the cost of other districts when built? Or is it just half price (like Japanese trait) but with the added caveat of not being pop-limited

 

[stealth_nsk]

Another question is, is it still confirmed that the unique district also doesn't raise the cost of other districts when built? Or is it just half price (like Japanese trait) but with the added caveat of not being pop-limited

We are pretty sure unique district doesn't count for district cost increase, but I can't point my finger to the source.

 

[Danzo_87]

Is it possible that a unique holy site is so powerful that they pretty much had to give them only +8 tiles and virtually nothing else to keep them balanced?

It may be, but then is it ok to give them 1 powerful trait and another good trait, then give them 2 very bad ones to balance out?

I think people would find it more fun if they had a bunch of different useful abilities that they could see boosting their civ and directing their gameplay.

Another question is, is it still confirmed that the unique district also doesn't raise the cost of other districts when built? Or is it just half price (like Japanese trait) but with the added caveat of not being pop-limited

not the unique holy site, but the extra tiles upon settling new city that seems to be the candidate for "oh that's OP" (people called it Shoshone on steroids, and Shoshone was kinda strong in Civ 5, so....)

 

[SpaceCommunist]

You can't compare that bonus alone. You need to take into account Russia's bonus too. +1 prod and faith from tundra. That allows to settle cities in tundra and be average cities instead of worthless cities. Now you take the pantheon that gives adjacency bonus to holy sites with tundra. And now you have a spammable unique holy district that will be generating tons of faith without gimping your ability to get other districts.

Alright, let's compare that to Japan's Holy Site construction bonus.

As Hojo, you're more than likely going to either start on an island or a coastal region, and given the coastal defense invasion shouldn't be a problem, meaning you can focus more on building infrastructure - exactly what Hojo's ability encourages. While you won't be able to outright spam Holy Sites like Russia, and while you won't get an initial Faith boost from terrain (remember, you need to have enough population to work all of those Tundra tiles to begin with before you can really reap all that Faith), you'll still be able to build a Holy Site just as fast, and thus be able to acquire a religion quickly, particularly if you go wide and build Holy Sites in each city. Furthermore, the national ability of Japan means that building these Holy Sites next to other ones (particularly Encampments and Theatre Squares, which also get half the production cost), you'll be getting a standard adjacency bonus. So that's a +1 bonus instead of a +0.5 bonus, which can double the potential Faith output of well-placed Holy Sites.

All of this can guarantee an early religion with guaranteed defense - something Russia is severely lacking until the Industrial Era (odd, considering Russia's historical defensibility). And ultimately, by the time the late game arrives, Japan still gets an Electronics Factory, while Russia gets nothing.

 

[Magil]

We are pretty sure unique district doesn't count for district cost increase, but I can't point my finger to the source.

It was something the developers said in the infamous "missing" stream where the big leader leak occurred, when they were discussing the Hansa. I cannot remember the exact wording of what was said, but the gist was that unique districts were half-price (or produced at double speed), and not tied to the population cap, so that Germany was essentially getting two extra districts per city.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

We are pretty sure unique district doesn't count for district cost increase, but I can't point my finger to the source.

I have looked into how district cost work from the LP videos and it seems to me that district cost is mainly based on turn time like:

District cost = base cost + turn -1

There are some other factor which may increase depending how many cities and districts you get but it have been minor compared to the turn time cost.

 

[ehecatzin]

People aren't getting the full impact of the Lavre. A Unique Holy Site district that is 50 percent cheaper and has no population requirements? Between that and your Tundra bonus you'll be rolling in faith at an early age. The extra tile is a little bonus, it would have been nice if you could select the tile instead of it being random.

The Leader Ability is a filler: you can play a strong culture or strong science game and make up the difference by being careful who you trade with. It means the rest of the world's accomplishments directly help you, which is highly accurate to Peter.

The Cossack will be great, you can swoop in, kill enemies, and move them out of range of enemy bombards. Also, don't forget, with the new system on Unique Units you won't need a source of Horses to build a powerful mid-game unit.

Mother Russia is Shoshone on crack, mostly because playing the map is so important in this game that doubling your options for placing early city districts/improvements is a huge bonus. Also tundra will be useful to you, so you're able to thrive in areas where no one else is.

Looks like a great civ overall.

I'm warming up to civ6 Russia, I agree in that the best part will be the district, the tundra bonus, and the landgrabbing potential of Russia. The Cossack does seem underwhelming tho this version at least get more movility.

The LUA I still don't like, as other have pointed out, it would probably require you to beeline to get the most out of it, if the ability is triggered by tech advantage (then it may be good), if "more advanced" means being on a different era, then it is really bad, at least for me it's not clear which one is it.

Russia seems like a very annoying civ to play against tho, land grabbing, early religion, extra production, and if you are doing well (mos likely for a human player) the AI will keep up with you.

As I said, I don't really like the LUA, but the civ as a whole is warming up to me.

 

[bite]

I do find it a bit ironic that a lot of us are warming up to Russia, given its tundra bias

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I do find it a bit ironic that a lot of us are warming up to Russia, given its tundra bias

That's global warming for you.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I don't see why Russia would lack defence. Given that they have less need for campuses and their holy site do not use an district slot you could spend your extra slots on building encampments. One of the biggest questions I have is if great generals do stack, if they do stack you wont need good tech for a very long time if you grab a good amount of great generals.

Low tech units are cheaper so if GG do stack you can save alot of resources by building a well lead but primitive army and instead focus on expanding and such.

 

[fmm]

The Cossack ability is slightly synergistic with the overall thrust of Russia because Russia will tend to have a lot of territory so being able to move troops efficiently will be important.

 

[kul]

I do find it a bit ironic that a lot of us are warming up to Russia, given its tundra bias

S-shut up!

You know what I think would have helped Russia without changing any of its designs? Not revealing them the last. The hype and expectation for them didnt cushion the fall after their meh bonuses were revealed. If I really had to change anything, then its to give Lavra at least some GP generation bonus, and Peter embassies to be 2 yields per 3 Undiscovered tech/policies

 

[ehecatzin]

That's global warming for you.

Or Vodka

 

[rastak]

It's one bloody tile stealth, one bloody tile for one city for a great person. Come on now, I want to hear you for once say this is frikkin terrible.

It's very important to you he say this it seems. Terrible is YOUR opinion. He doesn't sound offended either.

 

[ehecatzin]

S-shut up!

You know what I think would have helped Russia without changing any of its designs? Not revealing them the last. The hype and expectation for them didnt cushion the fall after their meh bonuses were revealed. If I really had to change anything, then its to give Lavra at least some GP generation bonus, and Peter embassies to be 2 yields per 3 Undiscovered tech/policies

Well technically they are not done with revealing stuff, Firaxis is yet to reveal whatever is on the deluxe edition. Russia is probably one of the main candidates for multiple leaders down the road, so as much as I don't like Peter's UA, the rest of bonus could call for a very different playstyle under another leader.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

She say then you use a great person (many great persons have several uses) you get a free tile.

It is not one tile per great person it is one tile per great person use.