Russia Gate

[cardgame]

As for Flynn's connections, why did the Obama administration go after him?

Could it be the case that the Obama administration was a functional administration that actually did its job?

 

[Berzerker]

Who is "Individual #1"?

Trump...what does Mueller say he did?

Could it be the case that the Obama administration was a functional administration that actually did its job?

Why was it their job to question Flynn about a phone call they recorded? Was the call evidence of a crime? They went after him to get Trump, or because they didn't want him working for Trump. This was about policy, Trump was changing direction away from Obama. Flynn opposed regime change in Syria, wanted a better relationship with Russia, and saw China as our main opponent. Somehow I dont think Obama's FBI would care if Clinton's national security adviser was talking to the Russian ambassador during the transition period.

You know, just a few months earlier the FBI was lying to a Fisa court to get a warrant to spy on Carter Page. Was that their job too?

An opposing viewpoint.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ed-russia-evidence-ex-nsc-chief-of-staff-says

Will see if the Durham investigation provides any evidence by summer's end.

No surprise there, John Brennan is a ring leader. I remember the media repeatedly telling us how 17 intelligence agencies all agreed Russia interfered in our election. No, it was 3 - John Brennan's CIA, James Clapper's NSA, and Jim Comey's FBI and each man handpicked a small group of people to tell us the Russians interfered.

But if you look at the interference, its questionable. A troll farm producing click bait, much of it unrelated to politics with more than half its 100k budget spent after the election. The main accusation is Russia stole DNC/Podesta emails showing corruption and had Wikileaks publish them. Like we should complain about Russia exposing election rigging? I'm sure Democrats would be cheering if Putin exposed Trump's corruption. Anyway, according to the owner of Crowdstrike they dont actually have evidence Russians stole the emails. Aint that just great?

 

[Berzerker]

https://nypost.com/2020/05/13/heres...-the-phrase-in-the-michael-flynn-controversy/

Okay, thats what all this hullabaloo about 'unmasking' means. So whats the problem? The article says this is only illegal if the name is leaked to the public. Why would it matter if an Obama official was granted an unmasking of Flynn?

 

[cardgame]

Trump...what does Mueller say he did?

Crime

 

[Kaitzilla]

https://nypost.com/2020/05/13/heres-what-unmasking-means-the-phrase-in-the-michael-flynn-controversy/
Okay, thats what all this hullabaloo about 'unmasking' means. So whats the problem? The article says this is only illegal if the name is leaked to the public. Why would it matter if an Obama official was granted an unmasking of Flynn?

Flynn's name was leaked to the public.
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-b...-leaking-flynns-name-to-press-was-illegal-but

His phone call with the Russian ambassador that got him into trouble was December 22, 2016 and again on December 29th, 2016.
Most of the Obama administration members making unmasking requests were before those dates. (33 people out of 39)

What did Flynn do to get the government spying on him in late November / early December?

November 10th, 2016: Obama warns Trump not to hire Flynn
November 18th, 2016: Trump names Flynn national security advisor.

Oh​

 

[Berzerker]

Crime

Mueller said some obstruction of justice charges could be pursued, thats it. And Trump would argue he was trying to get rid of politically motivated investigators and rein in what turned out to be a fraudulently conducted investigation. Thats the crime...

Flynn's name was leaked to the public.

His phone call with the Russian ambassador that got him into trouble was December 22, 2016 and again on December 29th, 2016. Most of the Obama administration members making unmasking requests were before those dates. (33 people out of 39)

What did Flynn do to get the government spying on him in late November / early December?

Oh​

oh

I didn't know his name was leaked, your link applauds the leak

 

[Kaitzilla]

Here is a story explaining why the DOJ dropped the case against Flynn.
https://thehill.com/opinion/judicia...-the-flynn-case-because-the-fbi-cant-prove-it

Amazingly, the judge doesn't want to let it go and might try to nail Flynn with perjury and contempt of court.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/13/us/politics/michael-flynn-john-gleeson-judge.html

I don't think I've ever seen a case where the prosecution and defense wanted the case dropped, but the judge kept it going.

I guess pleading guilty when you are innocent is technically perjury.
And wasting 3 years of the judge's life ought to be contempt of court.

 

[Berzerker]

https://www.realclearinvestigations...d_no_proof_of_russian_hack_of_dnc_123596.html

inno posted this link in the Mueller Post Mortem thread but since its relevant I'm posting it here too

Aaron Mate is the writer

 

[Berzerker]

Max Blumenthal on Jimmy Dore

Regarding the Flynn phone call to the Russian ambassador Kislyak, it was actually a result of Benjamin Netanyahu asking Jared Kushner to get Russia to veto a UN proposal to punish Israel over its domestic policy. So Jared told Flynn to make the call...

And Fast and Furious is a big scandal in Mexico, not so much here because, well, you know how the media loves the Democrats. But the DoJ was actually pushing weapons to N Mexico to the Sinaloa cartel battling another cartel. So Obama armed "moderate rebels" in Syria and ISIS took over half the country and Obama armed a moderate cartel in Mexico.

 

[FriendlyFire]

And Fast and Furious is a big scandal in Mexico, not so much here because, well, you know how the media loves the Democrats. But the DoJ was actually pushing weapons to N Mexico to the Sinaloa cartel battling another cartel. So Obama armed "moderate rebels" in Syria and ISIS took over half the country and Obama armed a moderate cartel in Mexico.

Thanks Obama
Trying to stop drug weapons trade == pushing weapons to Mexico cartels
Getting congress approval to send weapons to Syria == Obama being the founder of ISIS

 

[Berzerker]

I'm not sure why it matters if Obama asked Congress for the money, but do you have a link to congressional approval that predates Timber Sycamore? I thought the program was covert and included Libyan weapons shipped from Benghazi where our facilities were attacked. We flooded Syria with weapons and ISIS conquered half the country, Obama aint ISIS founder, just their arms supplier. As for Fast and Furious, the Sinaloa cartel was the primary beneficiary of letting weapons flow into Mexico under Obama. If it'll ease your pain, Bush was doing the same thing.

 

[FriendlyFire]

1-2% of all the legal and illegal weapons shipped to Mexico came from Fast and Furious irrc that for for one year. But I guess its business as usual now
Well then make sure to bash Trump failure to stop the illegals arm trade in Libya as well, since tons of weapons are flowing ever since the civil war restarted. fairs fair right ?
Because Obama Syria policy was a joke

US has trained only 'four or five' Syrian fighters against Isis, top general testifies
A $500m effort to train Syrian forces against the Islamic State has resulted in only a handful of fighters actively battling the jihadi army, the top military commander overseeing the war has testified.
“We’re talking four or five,” General Lloyd Austin, commander of US Central Command, told a dissatisfied Senate armed services committee on Wednesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/16/us-military-syrian-isis-fighters

 

[Estebonrober]

Same bullfeathers different day.

Looks like the RNC machine is cycling up another system of conspiracy theories to rile up the base. Going to be a long summer.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I feel Russia's image in US media is an entity reserved for internal use, which lives its own life and almost unaffected by real Russia as a country.
Textbook villains and troublemakers!

For some Americans other countries and most people only exist by virtue of being something to point to. It's not really anything new. It also explains their absolutely incredible lack of knowledge of everything that isn't wholly American. Most just assume other countries are "America-lite". Like when Rah made the thread "DID YOU GO TO PROM" he never even considered the fact that some countries could have a different customary.

Because Obama Syria policy was a joke

Trump literally executed the biggest threat to ISIS, the one person in the middle-east who was seen as a proper antagonist to them, perhaps the single most important strategist and ally in the fight against ISIS. because he's a fat-fingered ******. don't give me any of that Obama-'a-cryin.

 

[Berzerker]

1-2% of all the legal and illegal weapons shipped to Mexico came from Fast and Furious irrc that for for one year. But I guess its business as usual now. Well then make sure to bash Trump failure to stop the illegals arm trade in Libya as well, since tons of weapons are flowing ever since the civil war restarted. fairs fair right ?
Because Obama Syria policy was a joke

But that 1-2% was mostly going into the hands of criminal gangs. As for Trump and Libya, that was Obama's war. How is Trump responsible for the weapons trade in Libya? We (Obama) were shipping weapons from Libya to Turkey to arm 'moderate rebels' in Syria to over throw Assad. The US is a distant non-entity in Libya under Trump, France, Turkey, Egypt, UAE, Qatar et al are all backing their favs.

 

[Berzerker]

Trump literally executed the biggest threat to ISIS, the one person in the middle-east who was seen as a proper antagonist to them, perhaps the single most important strategist and ally in the fight against ISIS. because he's a fat-fingered ******. don't give me any of that Obama-'a-cryin.

That guy can burn in hell, he killed a bunch of Americans trying to help post-Saddam Iraqis. The US does not want Iran building a fertile crescent empire, nor does Israel or a half dozen other countries. Some would rather have ISIS control E Syria/W Iraq, Putin is not one of them.

 

[FriendlyFire]

But that 1-2% was mostly going into the hands of criminal gangs. As for Trump and Libya, that was Obama's war. How is Trump responsible for the weapons trade in Libya? We (Obama) were shipping weapons from Libya to Turkey to arm 'moderate rebels' in Syria to over throw Assad. The US is a distant non-entity in Libya under Trump, France, Turkey, Egypt, UAE, Qatar et al are all backing their favs.

So how many of the 98-99% of weapons that are purchased in American and then make their way into Mexico do you believe end up in the hands of criminal and gangs then ?
Illegal weapon shipments in Libya are occurring right now, under Trump how much responsibility is Trump for trying to stop this flow of illegal arms ?
Trump is backing hes fav, and those US Javelin anti tank missles that keep turning up, Trump isnt responsible ?

Trump praises Haftar in apparent reversal of US policy on Libya
On April 4, Haftar and his forces launched an offensive against the country's internationally recognised government, which is based in Tripoli.
In their phone call, Trump "recognised Field Marshal Haftar's significant role in fighting terrorism and securing Libya's oil resources, and the two discussed a shared vision for Libya's transition to a stable, democratic political system."
Trump's praise for Haftar was seen in Tripoli as a reversal in US policy on Libya, as earlier this month, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo demanded an immediate halt to Haftar's offensive.
But Qatar said an existing UN arms embargo on Libya should be strictly enforced to prevent the commander from receiving arms.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...ant-role-terrorism-fight-190419182035115.html

 

[Berzerker]

So how many of the 98-99% of weapons that are purchased in American and then make their way into Mexico do you believe end up in the hands of criminal and gangs then ?

I dont know, the article I read said ~2,000 guns were sold as part of F&F

Illegal weapon shipments in Libya are occurring right now, under Trump how much responsibility is Trump for trying to stop this flow of illegal arms ?
Trump is backing hes fav, and those US Javelin anti tank missles that keep turning up, Trump isnt responsible ?

Your article doesn't mention anything about Trump providing arms, just him thanking a general for fighting terrorism. The only Javelins I know about were sold to Ukraine to deter Russian armor and they did the trick. Trump is not in Libya selling weapons or hunting down gun runners and he's letting the neighborhood work it out. It aint his war. Why do you think he's responsible for guns in Libya? Obama created that situation.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I dont know, the article I read said ~2,000 guns were sold as part of F&F

Your article doesn't mention anything about Trump providing arms, just him thanking a general for fighting terrorism. The only Javelins I know about were sold to Ukraine to deter Russian armor and they did the trick. Trump is not in Libya selling weapons or hunting down gun runners and he's letting the neighborhood work it out. It aint his war. Why do you think he's responsible for guns in Libya? Obama created that situation.

So you cant bring yourself to answer that ? It was a botched attempt to stop illegal weapons smuggling not Obama arming a drug cartel
Trump is now publicly supporting the restart of the civil war in Libya, US javelins are turning up in Libya, How are you failing to connect the dots suddenly ?

Libya's GNA says US missiles found at captured Haftar base
Military officials with Libya's UN-recognised government say they have seized US-made weapons at a base they captured from forces loyal to renegade military commander Khalifa Haftar in Libya, prompting an investigation by the US Department of State.
The GNA said that among the weaponry its forces seized were a number of US-made Javelin anti-tank missiles packed in wooden crates marked "armed forces of the United Arab Emirates" (UAE). Libyan media also aired footage that appeared to show markings that indicated that the US-made weapons were originally sold to the UAE - a major buyer of US weapons and one of Haftar's main international supporters - in 2008.
If the UAE did provide the weapons to Haftar's forces, it would likely be a violation of arms sales agreements with the US.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/06/libya-gna-missiles-captured-haftar-base-190629183615435.html

 

[Zardnaar]

Obama inherited a crap situation from Bush. That whole Iraq invasion destabilized the Middle East.