Oh...
BTW, Vox Populi is best played at Marathon speed IMO. So if you add your previous Saga Speed, it would probably be even better as a starting point, IMO.
 
Oh...
BTW, Vox Populi is best played at Marathon speed IMO. So if you add your previous Saga Speed, it would probably be even better as a starting point, IMO.
IMO it’s clearly made for quick and standard. Nothing about it says long games to me.
 
I agree with most of your points except 8, 9, 10 and 12 and 11 is already known( not sure if intentional or not)
 
I agree with most of your points except 8, 9, 10 and 12 and 11 is already known( not sure if intentional or not)
Just curious why you'd be against 12?
I've always felt that too many buildings/wonders are always available to build, so you've got an overabundance of options.
 
I’m playing on a Huge map with Epic speed on a Perfect World mapscript as Hyksos

1. I think removing the option of giving +1 population from nomadic huts would be a good idea. Adding additional population in the Lithic Era seems like a bad idea.
2. Defense on all flat land tiles should be 0, just like grasslands, because there’s a clear line of sight. Hills should have a lower defense than forest, but higher than flat land tiles, say +15. A -15% defense penalty for Marsh seems irrational to me. It’s realistically just as defensible as forest or maybe hills to me.
3. I hated when Civ4 added animals as a concept, so naturally I don’t like seeing them here either. If you want to give unique units to the barbarians, do that, because that’s fine, but seeing a Barbarian Wolf for example, attacking my city is just so silly & completely throws immersion out the window.
4. Hunters are able to explore far too much terrain early on, so I’d recommend dropping the defense from 5 to 1 or 2. They’ll die often then & exploration should be slowed. The only other options I see are either limiting how far from the city a unit can travel (there’s a Civ4 mod that did this, I think the option was called Limited Movement), or implementing some sort of Tile Attrition that damages the units so they absolutely have to return to your territory to heal periodically. Maybe both.
5. Adding the concept of gaining experience by exploring (from Vox Populi) would be nice, I’m missing that. It gives you another reason to go out & explore, instead of going total-turtle in your one city early on, which is too beneficial. It would also go well in combination with #4 above, in that if the Hunter is able to gain enough experience, it could be promoted to the point where it’s defense is enough to survive longer stretches outside of your territory.
6. Getting free Gatherers from nomadic huts also seems like a bad idea, as they can do so little early in the game that they’re likely useless units.
7. Maybe break the Lithic era up into Paleolithic, Mesolithic, Neolithic & Chalcolithic eras. This would allow a player to better start where they’d prefer. Also, there should be a direct jump from Paleolithic to later “Lithic” eras, so that those that do start in the Paleolithic can entirely bypass eras, at the cost of massive research costs, of course – in certain start situations, I’d think the cost would be worth it.
8. Shamans should be available a bit earlier
9. Workers should be available a bit later
10. Being able to purchase a portion of buildings/wonders is another feature I’m missing from Vox Populi.
11. Forest Garden doesn’t show a tile graphic after being built.
12. Overall, I’d suggest that every building & wonder have at least one terrain or resource requirement.
13. In the city screen, it says each citizen consumes 2 food, but it’s actually 3
14. I think Civ5 & all it’s mods, usually combine forest/jungle defense bonuses with hills & Saga of Man is apparently not doing that, which seems weird to me.
15. Trade routes should come earlier. These things happened way earlier than most people think.
16. Reduce Archer’s attack radius to 1
17. Reduce the cost of a canoe to that of a scout, as it’s basically a scouting boat, in fact, most early stuff to build seems over priced to me & should all be about 270 gold
18. At this point in my gameplay, I’m thinking you might want to consider making this mod off of Vox Populi. I’ve been playing that mod for so long, as have so many others, that I feel like I’m missing a lot of those elements (as I’m sure others would also feel).
This is great feedback thanks. I'll respond to your points but my memory might be a little fuzzy because I haven't touched this since December. I see you are using examples from Civ IV mods. When I began this project it started out as a mod mod of Caveman 2 Cosmos but then decided there was too much reverse engineering I needed to do.

1. I agree about extra pop in the Lithic Era that's why I balanced growth so that the additional pop is difficult to maintain. My logic is that the villagers have decided to join your civilization.
2. I will take your idea about flatlands into consideration. Marsh is difficult to maneuver in.
3. Man vs. environment is actually very realistic. Especially before the rise of civilization. There is very little evidence of warfare prior to the Neolithic. I think of cities prior to civilization as temporary settlements and I don't think animals attacking is out of the question. As a matter of fact, I believe I gave mammoths the promotion that prevents city attack in my new version. I'll consider all animals. The animals go obsolete sometime in the Classical Era anyway, I believe. FYI, I started overhauling my tech tree to start the game at 20,000 b.c. because I find permanent settlements by nomadic tribes to be a bit immersion breaking.
4. I agree with you about hunters. I've been trying to come up with ideas to limit exploration. Making them weaker would definitely work. Tile attrition would be awesome but I haven't figured out a way to do it. I wanted this for snow and desert. Limiting the range is also a good idea but I can't find a way to do it. I believe I gave hunters the promotion that makes them more powerful when in range of the city to discourage exploration but I know this doesn't really work.
5. So in my newest version I took the time to assemble a mod pack to go along with this project. I believe I added a mod by WHoward that adds a promotion for exploration xp. So this should be possible. Unfortunately I don't know a way to limit the hunter's range.
6. You might be right about this. I don't like workers standing around either.
7. My first version had a Paleolithic and Neolithic era. But I was experiencing a crash whenever I would start the Neolithic. I tore my mod apart trying to find the cause but couldn't find the problem. So I combined the eras and the problem went away. I might separate them later on but for the moment game stability is my priority.
8. Just trying to be historically accurate.
9. Workers didn't really exist before permanent settlements.
10. If there is a mod somewhere for this I might add it. There might be something like this in WHoward's pack but not completely sure.
11. Done. In the new version berry bushes appear.
12. I did this in my original mod that's on Steam. But decided that this was too penalizing for most generic buildings. Wonders, for the most part, will require something terrain related.
13. It's set at 2 to limit growth.
14. This sounds familiar to me. There was something in the code preventing me from doing this. I'll take another look at it.
15. You are right. I had a historical reason for doing what I did. I think it had to do with the beginning of trade for profit.
16. I have considered doing this.
17. I believe I did this already in my new version.
18. I actually began doing that but ran into some compatibility issues with other mods I wanted to use. I think it was related to the DLL. Ultimately I decided to base this on Whoward's DLL. Many of his mods are also part of Vox Populi. Anyway I have a grand vision for this mod and things get tricky when I have to undo what others have done.

@DImensiondog The project is still at a stand still. I have other priorities at the moment but I am looking forward to diving back into this. It's just a massive time sink and requires my full attention.
 
4. I agree with you about hunters. I've been trying to come up with ideas to limit exploration. Making them weaker would definitely work. Tile attrition would be awesome but I haven't figured out a way to do it. I wanted this for snow and desert. Limiting the range is also a good idea but I can't find a way to do it. I believe I gave hunters the promotion that makes them more powerful when in range of the city to discourage exploration but I know this doesn't really work.
Check out the mod Passable Ice by Elotar for Tile Attrition implemented in Civ5. I installed it via Steam Workshop.
 
I’m playing on a Huge map, Marathon speed on a Perfect World mapscript, this time as Greec

19. Baskets (the building) has a discrepancy, at the top it says +10% Food, at the bottom it says +5% Growth & also, IMO it’s a really silly thing to build in a settlement, so perhaps Basket Weaver?
20. Gatherers & Shamans should stop population growth as I think this may help with early population boom. Workers already do, which makes sense to me.
21. Hunters & Scouts both have a strength of 5, Scout should be at least +1 from Hunters, perhaps more
22. You really need at least 3 tech choices at every branching, otherwise it becomes a rather formulaic path to follow.
23. Gatherers should probably go obsolete when Workers become available.
24. It’s weird that Mammoths have a higher Strength than Warriors (which come later – 10 vs 8).
25. Dwelling should be renamed Dwellings
26. The first “Settler,” perhaps have that be a “Tribe,” and it has a much higher visibility & a much higher move rate than a real Settler, let’s say treat all terrain as roads. This should put an end to bad starts, though it reinforces the whole early-game exploration problem.
27. I didn’t encounter this issue in the previous game...but in this one, the AI has built so many Hunters that it’s actually difficult to move my Scouts around to explore. It’s a bit tedious to explore with all this interference now.
28. Shaman should go obsolete & get replaced with Priests
29. Suggestion, add the following mods & tile changes:
A. Iconian’s Rivers Yield More Food (can be found on Steam) – except that I might go as far as saying Rivers should yield +1 Food & +1 Production & +1 Gold
B. Coasts And Rivers Yield Gold Again (can be found on Steam) – except that I might go as far as saying Coasts should yield +1 Food & +1 Production & +1 Gold
C. Given the above, all tiles should yield as close to ZERO everything as possible, unless improved.
D. Cities should give +1 of every type of yield possible (food, production, gold, faith, culture, etc.)
30. Just a note, my first city has reached a size of 8 & it’s been relatively easy to maintain that population (before even hitting the Ancient Era), meanwhile, most of the AI hasn’t gone over size 3 in their cities. I only see one with Size 5, one with Size 7 & one with Size 12.

OK, can’t take Marathon speed with this mod atm, so I’m ending this game prematurely.
 
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I’m playing on a Huge map, Marathon speed on a Perfect World mapscript, this time as Greec

19. Baskets (the building) has a discrepancy, at the top it says +10% Food, at the bottom it says +5% Growth & also, IMO it’s a really silly thing to build in a settlement, so perhaps Basket Weaver?
20. Gatherers & Shamans should stop population growth as I think this may help with early population boom. Workers already do, which makes sense to me.
21. Hunters & Scouts both have a strength of 5, Scout should be at least +1 from Hunters, perhaps more
22. You really need at least 3 tech choices at every branching, otherwise it becomes a rather formulaic path to follow.
23. Gatherers should probably go obsolete when Workers become available.
24. It’s weird that Mammoths have a higher Strength than Warriors (which come later – 10 vs 8).
25. Dwelling should be renamed Dwellings
26. The first “Settler,” perhaps have that be a “Tribe,” and it has a much higher visibility & a much higher move rate than a real Settler, let’s say treat all terrain as roads. This should put an end to bad starts, though it reinforces the whole early-game exploration problem.
27. I didn’t encounter this issue in the previous game...but in this one, the AI has built so many Hunters that it’s actually difficult to move my Scouts around to explore. It’s a bit tedious to explore with all this interference now.
28. Shaman should go obsolete & get replaced with Priests
29. Suggestion, add the following mods & tile changes:
A. Iconian’s Rivers Yield More Food (can be found on Steam) – except that I might go as far as saying Rivers should yield +1 Food & +1 Production & +1 Gold
B. Coasts And Rivers Yield Gold Again (can be found on Steam) – except that I might go as far as saying Coasts should yield +1 Food & +1 Production & +1 Gold
C. Given the above, all tiles should yield as close to ZERO everything as possible, unless improved.
D. Cities should give +1 of every type of yield possible (food, production, gold, faith, culture, etc.)
30. Just a note, my first city has reached a size of 8 & it’s been relatively easy to maintain that population (before even hitting the Ancient Era), meanwhile, most of the AI hasn’t gone over size 3 in their cities. I only see one with Size 5, one with Size 7 & one with Size 12.

OK, can’t take Marathon speed with this mod atm, so I’m ending this game prematurely.
It's nice to see someone is actually interested in this mod. Feedback sure helps. I'll respond to your points. But first...

I'm diligently working on this as we speak. The version you are playing was more of an experiment. I wasn't sure how sharing uniques between civilizations and the linear tech tree was going to play out. I decided I liked what I was seeing and decided to focus on the core components of the game instead. I have assembled a mod pack of mostly WHoward's mods and anything that I felt was realistic from the workshop. There were some compatibility issues that I couldn't iron out so I didn't include everything I wanted but I'm satisfied with what I have so far. Currently I am making changes to core mechanics. I have added Farmers and Slaves and tons of growth and production buildings. I will be tackling the tech tree next and anything science related. Then I plan on making the economy a bit more realistic and changing the social policy trees into governments. I will also take a hard look at culture, faith and happiness. Once I get this assembled I will release it for testing. Then I will get back to overhauling the civilizations. So back to your points...

19. I'll double check that discrepancy. I called it Baskets because it's the actual thing people build. I felt this made sense in the prehistoric era since because historically there really wasn't much building going on before the Neolithic. People were semi-nomadic and I imagine anything they would have created would have been a big deal. I'm actually trying to avoid building names like Basket Weaver. I've seen other mods that will call it "Weaver's Hut". I challenged myself to use actual buildings and not professions. For example I used Loom instead of Weaver. I know a Loom is not a building but it is something that can be built and even in the Neolithic I still imagine these communities to have been quite small. I've been researching the historical names of these work places in order to avoid using generic names. I know sometimes that's not possible though.
20. Good idea.
21. I'm sure I did that intentionally for balancing reasons.
22. So here's the deal. I've been going back and forth on this but the problem I have with the vanilla tech tree are the unrealistic beelines. I wanted a more realistic historical progression and I realize this does remove some of the strategy by forcing everyone down a path. The new tech tree will start around 20000 b.c. I haven't made a final decision on this yet but I'm still leaning towards having a more linear progression and I'm thinking about putting technologies back instead of using time periods. I would like to think of this as a tech timeline rather than a tree. Creating more buildings and units does force me to create more techs. I'm trying to keep everything visible on the tech tree.
23. Gatherers will probably upgrade to Farmers
24. Maybe. Warriors were still using stone age weapons. Mammoths were probably quite strong.
25. I agree
26. I don't think I'll change this.
27. Game progression might be a bit different when I redo the tree.
28. Shaman go obsolete in the Classical era. It seemed realistic from everything I have read. But then we get Missionaries. I will be taking a close look at the Faith portion of the game. So something may change. I added the Shaman to make the prehistoric era more interesting.
29. Honestly don't remember what changes I made to tile yields. But in my newest version tile yields have been dialed down to the bare minimum. Special buildings boost tile yields. For instance I added Irrigation Canals that add +1 food to all tiles. I started from scratch with production and growth, overhauled almost every building related to those yields and added a bunch of new ones.
30. Messing with the tile yields has definitely had an affect on the AI. I'm still working to iron this out.
 
I'll keep trying different Civs here & there, to see if I can't come up with anything else. Until a new version is ready for testing, that's about all I can offer. :goodjob:
 
Progress report
Tech tree update:
Spoiler Paleolithic :
Tech_Tree_Paleolithic_4_2_23.JPG

Spoiler Neolithic :
Tech_Tree_Neolithic_4_2_23.JPG

Spoiler Ancient :
Tech_Tree_Ancient_4_2_23.JPG


After my last build that was mostly focused on civilizations and uniques I decided that the core portion of this mod needed to be priority going forward. So I set that one aside for the time being and took the time to assemble a modpack that included a DLL from WHoward, many of his mod components, and other must have mods from other modders. After completing that portion I began implementing my own changes into a separate module. Well the modpack hasn't been cooperating with my new overhaul and I haven't quite figured out why. It works on it's own just fine so if for some reason I decide not to use it I will share it as a separate mod. It's a great modpack, in my opinion. So for the moment my focus has been strictly on my overhaul. My vision is my priority and I will worry about the modpack later. So I'm creating this new module so that it will be playable on it's own.

What you see in the screen shots is my vision that focuses on the core mechanics minus the changes to civilizations like I had in my last build. This is not playable yet. I will not release it until the tech tree is complete and I'm satisfied with my changes. In addition to this core module I will be creating a separate expansion that overhauls civilizations, their uniques, and wonders. So now to what has changed...

Tech tree: I decided to keep the "Ages" theme in the tech tree. Technological progress is represented by what the techs unlock. All techs in each column must be completed before moving to the next column with the exception of the naval themed techs on top of the tree. This forces a more historical accurate progression and removes unrealistic beelines. I have always had an epic vision for this mod and I originally had planned on making an immense tech tree. But with my focus on historical accuracy I decided that creating techs for the sake of creating techs was kind of silly. So I don't create a new tech until I run out of room in other techs. I don't want to add unnecessary fluff to this mod. My goal is to represent everything important is history.

Grand eras: Paleolithic, Neolithic, Ancient, Post-Classical, Early Modern, Industrial, Late Modern, Contemporary, The Future (This may change because the Industrial era is technically part of the Late Modern era. Gameplay will determine this ultimately). These are the macro eras that historians generally agree on for world history (At least according to Wikipedia).

Stone Age: The first two eras are part of the Stone Age. As you can see the tech tree becomes busier as time passes on. I expect the Ancient era will be the busiest era in the entire tree just looking at my notes. The buildings and wonders chosen for the Stone Age are everything important I have compiled from my research. The Paleolithic begins with a Tribe (Settler) unit. It's the only Settler until the Ancient era. The game begins in 20,000 BC. I am aware that most of the Paleolithic took place before that date but I wanted everything to be represented. 20,000 BC is about the earliest time in history for human settlement that we have evidence for. The Hunter (a Scout) and the Gatherer (a worker) are unlocked immediately. The Gatherer can build mines, quarries, camps and forest gardens. Forest Gardens add +1 food to forests and jungles and can not be built by Workers. It's designed to give an early game food boost. Barbarians are animal units like the wolf, lion, and mammoth. They go obsolete around the beginning of the Neolithic when the Warrior is unlocked. City growth in the Paleolithic is designed to go slowly. My goal is to keep populations low in the first two eras. I'm using the demographics info as a measurement for realism. The first two eras have many new wonders. I don't plan on adding more wonders to the Ancient era and beyond until I get to my expansion.

Industries: My goal is to take a more realistic approach to the economy. Industries are buildings that require resources and unlock trade routes. Some buildings produce luxuries and others just generate gold. Industries began to appear in the Neolithic. Examples: Tannery, Loom, Brewery, Jeweler, Apiary, etc. Buildings that are government funded like public buildings will have maintenance costs. Some buildings may generate gold like the Arena. This is still a work in progress.

Growth: Agriculture now spreads more realistically. Workers can domesticate Wheat, Maize, Soybeans, Rice and Potatoes but can't spread the seeds. This is what Farmers do. These resources are now strategic and can be traded. Farmers require one of those resources to be built. This way agriculture can be spread from city to city. This does no apply to luxuries though. That would be too much.
I mostly have growth buildings fleshed out for the entire game. Buildings amplify growth with modifiers instead of giving direct food yields with a couple of exceptions.

Production: Production is also mostly fleshed out for each era. I have taken a hybrid approach to strategic resources. This is based on what I did in a mod for Civ 6 (which is not up to date, sorry). Units require consumable resources like horses, coal and oil. Iron, copper, tin, lumber are examples of strategic resources that are required by factories. Factories speed up the production of units. Units can be built without these resources but have high production costs. The factories are designed to cut unit costs in half. This approach doesn't completely handicap players when they are missing needed resources.

Innovations: Innovations are buildings that represent important inventions. For example Wheeled Carts give a food bonus. Cranes give a production bonus. There are some historical innovations that I wanted to make sure are represented.

Resources: When I set out to create this I didn't want to flood the map with luxuries. Honestly I'm struggling to keep this under control because there are so many resources in history that are important. To that end my plan is to do some serious balancing for happiness. I have also added more strategic resources like Obsidian and Tin. Resources are revealed on the tech tree when they became historically important.
No more mines over nothingness. Mines and Lumber Camps (Lumber Mill renamed) can only be built on resources. Historically entire forests were eliminated. Lumber mills didn't sit in one spot era after era. So if you need that production then you need to chop, chop. Now if somebody can create a mod that prematurely ends the game if too many forests across the map are chopped down that would be fantastic.

So this is where I'm at right now. I'm looking forward to moving beyond the Ancient Era, finally.
 
Unfortunately I cannot give feedback as I haven't tried out your mod (Not enough time due to work schedule)

I have been following thread progression closely for quite a while now, am quite intrigued and interested to see future development of your endeavours.

Out of curiosity, what complications did you have with compatibility with VP?
 
Unfortunately I cannot give feedback as I haven't tried out your mod (Not enough time due to work schedule)

I have been following thread progression closely for quite a while now, am quite intrigued and interested to see future development of your endeavours.

Out of curiosity, what complications did you have with compatibility with VP?
Well originally I had planned on using Health and Plague and some other mod components that conflicted with VP. I believe that was my primary problem. Secondly VP (just the core component) actually makes many changes to the base game that I don't exactly agree with. I was interested in using the DLL but I discovered that I would have had to undo many things that they had done. It gets very messy trying to do this. So that's when I switched over to WHoward's mods. VP is based on his mods including the DLL and the AI improvements. Right now I'm experiencing a mysterious crash with his modpack. I'm clueless as to why because it began happening early on after I had only made some minor changes. Hopefully I'll get it to work.

So I have actually set Health and Plague aside for the moment. I've been experimenting with my own ideas for Disease and Pollution but haven't decided if I'm going to use it yet. As a matter of fact I'm only using More Luxuries and a few wonders from Steam's workshop. The rest of the work is my own. It's more satisfying for me to do it this way. The base game is very bare bones compared to Civ 6 which makes it perfect for modding. I'm also on the fence about using the City State Diplomacy mod. I like the logic behind it. But when I play I rarely seem to utilize it. So I'm looking for a more streamlined yet satisfying approach to City States. Something definitely needs to be done.

So some new mods by Iska and Ismet on the workshop have caught my attention. It appears he has created his own DLL. I like his ideas for health, loyalty and diplomacy. When I get a chance I will check these out and maybe go that direction.
 
Just from the comments since my last visit...

A. Have you read Guns, Germs & Steel? It sets out a completely different array of resources important to the develop of civilizations.
B. Instead of Early Modern, Industrial, Late Modern - how about Early Industrial, Middle Industrial, Late Industrial?
C. Chopping down Forest/Jungle needs a huge reward to spur a player to do so. Perhaps each chop creates a free naval unit?
D. Something I've felt is lacking from every Civ5 mod to date - some buildings/wonders should boost the border expansion rate.
 
Just from the comments since my last visit...

A. Have you read Guns, Germs & Steel? It sets out a completely different array of resources important to the develop of civilizations.
B. Instead of Early Modern, Industrial, Late Modern - how about Early Industrial, Middle Industrial, Late Industrial?
C. Chopping down Forest/Jungle needs a huge reward to spur a player to do so. Perhaps each chop creates a free naval unit?
D. Something I've felt is lacking from every Civ5 mod to date - some buildings/wonders should boost the border expansion rate.
A. You must not be familiar with my older version on Steam. It's actually called Guns, Germs, and Steel. Yes I have read the book. The core mod that I'm in the process of developing is highly dependent on local resources for growth and production. For instance, if you don't start the game with Stone near your city you're already handicapped. Civ 5 is nice because this idea is already baked into the game. City growth equals more science.


B. I know what you're saying. If I did that then I would still need to add another era between Late Industrial and Contemporary. Both Industrial eras are technically part of the Late Modern period according to most historians. I'm trying to keep things macro. But for gameplay purposes it makes sense to have an Industrial or Mid Modern era. I'm still constructing the tech tree. When I reach that time period I'll make a final decision.

Time periods:
Paleolithic: 200,000 bc to 10000 bc
Neolithic: 10000 bc to 4000 bc
Ancient: 4000 bc to 500 ad
Post Classical: 500 to 1500
Early Modern: 1500 to 1800
Industrial: 1800 to (1850 or 1880)
Late Modern: 1880 to (end of WW1 or end of WW2 )
Contemporary: WW2 to today
Future: tomorrow

C. I've had the impression that chopping is popular with players. I don't chop unless I'm desperately rushing something. So I've been play testing this and I'm actually chopping more frequently to make forests more useful. Also I have added the Forest Garden improvement that adds a +1 food to forests and jungle. But the the Forest Garden doesn't get tech bonuses like other improvements. I would much prefer to have an environmental penalty for chopping forests. I'm still trying to work that out.

D. Adding culture to a city simply does just that, does it not?
 
So here is the Post Classical Era. Just finished a play through to the end and did some balancing. All game speeds will be longer than the vanilla game speeds. I was attempting to keep them the same but because I added so many techs I needed to lengthen the overall pace to make the gameplay more satisfying. Game speeds will be about double that of vanilla speeds it looks like. My goal is to make every era about the same number of turns. The Neolithic turned out to be the longest era so I'm matching all other eras to it's pace.

Added more industries and guilds. The cannon is now an archery unit that upgrades from the Crossbowman and requires Niter. It's been replaced with a Bombard that is unlocked in the Early Modern era. The Scout now upgrades to a Horseman and the Horseman gets the Scout's promotions. The Hunter has a new promotion called Carnivore which means 50 health points are awarded when the Hunter kills another unit. This is my way of providing food from barbarian animals when they are killed and this also makes the Hunter a cannibal by default, ha ha. The Battering Ram is now available to all civilizations and upgrades to the Bombard.

Spoiler Post Classical Era :
Tech_Tree_Medieval.JPG
 
D. Adding culture to a city simply does just that, does it not?

It does, yes. What I meant was that border expansion isn't fast enough, though culture rates are fine for other purposes. So therefore, I feel that specific Border Growth bonuses to certain buildings should be added to make that expansion faster.
 
A. You must not be familiar with my older version on Steam. It's actually called Guns, Germs, and Steel. Yes I have read the book. The core mod that I'm in the process of developing is highly dependent on local resources for growth and production. For instance, if you don't start the game with Stone near your city you're already handicapped. Civ 5 is nice because this idea is already baked into the game. City growth equals more science.
I did play the GGS mod, I didn't realize it was yours though. What about his other book, Collapse?
 
I did play the GGS mod, I didn't realize it was yours though. What about his other book, Collapse?
There might be another mod called GGS on Steam by someone else. Mine specifically has Saga of Man as part of the title and it's two modules. No I haven't read that book yet. It's on that list. After I finish this mod I plan on reading some books for new ideas.
It does, yes. What I meant was that border expansion isn't fast enough, though culture rates are fine for other purposes. So therefore, I feel that specific Border Growth bonuses to certain buildings should be added to make that expansion faster.
Well if it makes you feel any better I'm experimenting with a new improvement called a Frontier Camp. It uses the barbarian encampment art and is constructed by Gatherers. It's a weaker version of the fort and can be constructed outside borders. It gives a culture bomb when built. I also gave this ability to Forts as well. The game moves quick enough and the Gatherer goes obsolete before this improvement can be abused. This way you can snag a nearby resource early on to get your game going. This does not culture bomb neighboring civs though. Just unclaimed tiles. I don't think it's too unrealistic. I'm sure tribes have always been territorial. Are there any vanilla buildings that increase border expansion? Nothing is coming mind.
 
Russian Krepost, of course.
Of course it does. Never looked at it that way. This makes sense for a unique building. I don't think I'll give this ability to a shared building unless I see a logical reason to do so. I can see applying this ability to a wonder but I plan on leaving wonders mostly untouched until I get to my expansion.
 
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