Santorum or Khameini? Can you tell the difference?

[caketastydelish]

Lots of people claim to be Christian for political reasons...

I know a guy that meets this definition. He goes by the name of Rick Santorum.

And I have no particular opinion of Islam one way or another, but the "pro Islam" people here would say that Khameini is not a true Muslim, but someone who claimed to be Muslim for political reasons.

 

[History_Buff]

Ummmm... are you trying to say Hitler was a Christian?
If so, I suggest you look into things further. He was a complete and total maniac, first... and not a Christian at all... He persecuted the Church whenever it didn't serve his purposes... This is a terrible idea, that Hitler was a Christian.
He replaced ornaments on a Christmas Tree with Swastikas for crying out loud.

Lots of people claim to be Christian for political reasons... he was clearly nowhere near a Christian...

He absolutely was a Christian, mostly because he self identified as such, and contemporaries would have agreed. Being particularly evil doesn't disqualify him from being one. Countless other evil people have been Christians, just as countless evil people have belonged to every other religious affiliation.

Nor does fighting the power of the church preclude him from being a Christian. Nearly every monarch in the medieval to early modern period fought and suppressed the authority of the Church when the opportunity presented itself.

Claiming he wasn't a Christian is one of the best examples of a No True Scotsman argument.

 

[Ajidica]

This is a terrible idea, that Hitler was a Christian.
He replaced ornaments on a Christmas Tree with Swastikas for crying out loud.

So he replaced a pagan custom. Big deal.

 

[classical_hero]

Which has nothing to do with whether or not Hitler thought he was a Christian or whether he thought his actions were Christian actions.

Taken from the post I just made:

"My feelings as a Christian"- Adolf Hitler. Hitler claimed to be Christian. I am a Christian and I believe Hitler was not a true Christian, but for that matter I think Santorum is not one either. The point was he was "openly" Christian, and used his "pro Christian" agendas to stir up hatred. Of course they weren't true Christian philosophies, but neither is Santorum's desire to go to war with Iran. Would you call that Christian either?

Actions speak louder than words. Saddam claimed he was a Muslims, but by his action he did things that Muslims would not do. I don't consider him to be a Muslim. Just because someone says he a Christian does not make it so. Hitler believed that it was his moral duty to destroy every Jew, does that make what he did moral?

Re Santorum and Iran. An open war is the last option, but still an option. Even President Obama has plans for going to war should the worst come to fruition. His "desire' for war is only the last option we take, not the first option. When you are the leader of a country you have far more on your plate than a citizen ever would. Going to war is not an action to be taken lightly and he certainly is not taking it lightly. Considering their clandestine operations of supporting terror organisation around the world, Iran does need to be harshly dealt with should they cross certainly lines. If you are not willing to stand up for what you believe in, then evil will take over the world.

 

[History_Buff]

Actions speak louder than words. Saddam claimed he was a Muslims, but by his action he did things that Muslims would not do. I don't consider him to be a Muslim. Just because someone says he a Christian does not make it so. Hitler believed that it was his moral duty to destroy every Jew, does that make what he did moral?

I was born and in raised in Canada. If I start running around abroad trying to impose democracy on central Asian countries, shouting about the superior American work ethic, denouncing maple syrup, and mocking Canadian ambassadors, does that make me American?

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

What is the point of this post? There are big differences between the two except in the minds of the simplistic.

Its like saying Hitler and Merkel are the same because they both led Germany and shat on Greece.

You must not have read this post I made on page 1, where I stated the point of the post:

I believe the point of the OP was simply to share a funny quiz that actually stumped me. And since I'm the OP, I believe my opinion is the correct one.

Try reading next time?

Sorry, but the thread starter isn't living up to his username. To quote a famous philosopher*, "Never interrupt the enemy while he is making a mistake." Santorum is the mistake. Let it be made. Please, oh please Flying Spaghetti Monster, amen.

Ridicule Santorum after the primary is settled, K? Thx Bye.

* Napoleon Bonaparte

I don't believe I have the same aims as you. I'm not aiming to ridicule or shut down Rick Santorum. Read the post above - I'm just sharing a quiz.

 

[Traitorfish]

Ummmm... are you trying to say Hitler was a Christian?
If so, I suggest you look into things further. He was a complete and total maniac, first... and not a Christian at all... He persecuted the Church whenever it didn't serve his purposes... This is a terrible idea, that Hitler was a Christian.
He replaced ornaments on a Christmas Tree with Swastikas for crying out loud.

Lots of people claim to be Christian for political reasons... he was clearly nowhere near a Christian...

You're aware that the NSDAP did consist solely of Adolf Hitler, aren't you?

And I have no particular opinion of Islam one way or another, but the "pro Islam" people here would say that Khameini is not a true Muslim, but someone who claimed to be Muslim for political reasons.

Who are you referring to, exactly?

 

[Cutlass]

Ummmm... are you trying to say Hitler was a Christian?
If so, I suggest you look into things further. He was a complete and total maniac, first... and not a Christian at all... He persecuted the Church whenever it didn't serve his purposes... This is a terrible idea, that Hitler was a Christian.
He replaced ornaments on a Christmas Tree with Swastikas for crying out loud.

Lots of people claim to be Christian for political reasons... he was clearly nowhere near a Christian...

If people could be expelled from the ranks of "Christian" because others thought they were lousy Christians then there would be no one in the world who could claim to be a Christian.

 

[caketastydelish]

If people could be expelled from the ranks of "Christian" because others thought they were lousy Christians then there would be no one in the world who could claim to be a Christian.

I was going to say something even less extreme than that. I was going to say, you could argue, the "Christian" crusaders were not real Christians (though shall not murder) and the same goes for the "Christians" who enslaved Africans and killed Native Americans.

 

[caketastydelish]

Actions speak louder than words. Saddam claimed he was a Muslims, but by his action he did things that Muslims would not do. I don't consider him to be a Muslim. Just because someone says he a Christian does not make it so. Hitler believed that it was his moral duty to destroy every Jew, does that make what he did moral?

Re Santorum and Iran. An open war is the last option, but still an option. Even President Obama has plans for going to war should the worst come to fruition. His "desire' for war is only the last option we take, not the first option. When you are the leader of a country you have far more on your plate than a citizen ever would. Going to war is not an action to be taken lightly and he certainly is not taking it lightly. Considering their clandestine operations of supporting terror organisation around the world, Iran does need to be harshly dealt with should they cross certainly lines. If you are not willing to stand up for what you believe in, then evil will take over the world.

If you've seen Santorum talk at the debates, he's clearly more eager to go to war with Iran than Obama is. And by a long shot.

edit: I want to merge this post with the one I just made, but I don't know how.

 

[del62]

Santorum? I thought this was a criticism of Khameini...


Did Mussolini actually say that? It honestly doesn't sound like him. Fascist theory doesn't have much time for "society", which they essentially regard as an extension of the state. It would be a very out of character comment for him to make.

Fascist theory is all about the state, so it is hardly out of character for a facist leader.

Here is a quote from a National Socialist, "We National Socialists are enemies, deadly enemies, of the present capitalist system"

If anything fascist philosophy does not recognise the individaul in his own right, but sees things a a collective (I dont consider this left or right wing because you we need to avoid falling into such traps)

 

[del62]

You must not have read this post I made on page 1, where I stated the point of the post:



Try reading next time?

Pretty lame defence, no you posted this because you wanted to compare Khommeni and Santorum, I dont see any comparison personally. You would be far better critiquing Santorums policies, which is fine by me instead of simplistic baiting.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Pretty lame defence, no you posted this because you wanted to compare Khommeni and Santorum, I dont see any comparison personally. You would be far better critiquing Santorums policies, which is fine by me instead of simplistic baiting.

I'm surprised you know my motivations so much better than I do. Or are you perhaps saying I'm a liar?

EDIT: My thought process:

"Hahaha, this article is funny. I'd bet OT would get a kick out of it!"

 

[Traitorfish]

Fascist theory is all about the state, so it is hardly out of character for a facist leader.

Here is a quote from a National Socialist, "We National Socialists are enemies, deadly enemies, of the present capitalist system"

If anything fascist philosophy does not recognise the individaul in his own right, but sees things a a collective (I dont consider this left or right wing because you we need to avoid falling into such traps)

I don't know why you're conflating "state", "society" and "collective" like this, when the fascists didn't make any such claims. I get the impression that you're working from liberal "totalitarianism" theory rather than from what they themselves thought.

 

[Cutlass]

If you've seen Santorum talk at the debates, he's clearly more eager to go to war with Iran than Obama is. And by a long shot.

edit: I want to merge this post with the one I just made, but I don't know how.

Santorum comes across like a lot of chickenhawks. Not everyone who didn't serve is indifferent to the lives of service people. But it's very common these days for the most vocally militarily aggressive to be people who never served and don't respect the service people.

 

[del62]

I don't know why you're conflating "state", "society" and "collective" like this, when the fascists didn't make any such claims. I get the impression that you're working from liberal "totalitarianism" theory rather than from what they themselves thought.

I think you are confused, probably by yourself.

The quote from mussolini obvioulsy shows the fascists belief in society, as does the fact the Nazis party used the term natonial socialist, they also had a strong beleif in the nation as a collective people, the one thing in common between communism and fascism is the beleif in the unity of the nation state leaving no room for individuals. Perhaps this is why the Nazi - Soviet pact came about so easily, a common enemy the western capatist system, but in the end the differences tore them apart, or perhaps more likely Hitlers hatred of slavs. Stalin had no idea despite all intelligence to the contrary that Germany was going to back stab them.

Of course the Italian Fascist under mussolini actaully wavered into which side they would go with in WW2, because even fascist theory isnt as racist as the National Socialist theory of Hitlers Nazi Party.

 

[Traitorfish]

See, now you've put me in a sticky situation. Do I horribly derail the thread by highlighting all the Wrong in that post, or do I step back and allow it to stand unchallenged?

Maybe Park will show up and save me from having to answer that question.

(Edit: Not forgetting that Mussolini didn't actually say that, so it doesn't prove anything in one direction or the other. It's just something that Berzerker thinks he would have said.)

 

[JollyRoger]

I think you are confused, probably by yourself.

The quote from mussolini obvioulsy shows the fascists belief in society, as does the fact the Nazis party used the term natonial socialist, they also had a strong beleif in the nation as a collective people, the one thing in common between communism and fascism is the beleif in the unity of the nation state leaving no room for individuals.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

[Antilogic]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Perfect response.

 

[_random_]

I know a guy that meets this definition. He goes by the name of Rick Santorum.

Say what you will about Santorum, but I've no reason to think he's insincere in his faith. I'm not sure whether that makes him better or worse.

So he replaced a pagan custom. Big deal.

It's been baptized.