[BTS] Saved Game - What to do here?

[LincolnOfRome]

OK, I'm securing the area. Turn 38 and one turn from pottery. I get this message.

Is +2 health worth the risk?

 

[lymond]

Many here don't use events. Do whatever you feel is best with them.

 

[sampsa]

Is +2 health worth the risk?

It doesn't show what the risk is. 50% chance of -1pop in each city IIRC? I think taking that event is useful only for space victories. I'd go with "forget these tests".

 

[LincolnOfRome]

I've got one worker in the gold and wheat city "Trigo." In the new city, I can work the capital's corn. Use the two remaining workers to hook up the copper? I'm using both workers now to build a road to the new city. It should be done by the time and the settler comes out in one turn.

The wheat is improved in the eastern city. I can use the worker to improve the mine. I can also use him to build a road to the capital. I'm seeing barbarian archers appear and a road will help an axeman get from the capital to the eastern city in case of trouble.

I'll build a granary in the capital as soon as the settler finishes. Monument will be done in the eastern city soon. I guessing granary next there too. Start with granary in the new city too.

Pottery > Masonry > Writing?

 

[sampsa]

I'd focus all effort on safety. You are in excellent position unless you get screwed by Charlie or barbs. Hooking up copper seems like a good idea. I think I'd rather improve gold than start roading wheat city. You could also consider putting a chop to a worker there and whipping it immediately size 2.

 

[Harv]

You said Trigo, so I will say tres tristes tigres comieron tres tristes platos de trigo. I hope your cities are not like those three sad tigers.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

You said Trigo, so I will say tres tristes tigres comieron tres tristes platos de trigo. I hope your cities are not like those three sad tigers.

LOL!

I'd focus all effort on safety. You are in excellent position unless you get screwed by Charlie or barbs. Hooking up copper seems like a good idea. I think I'd rather improve gold than start roading wheat city. You could also consider putting a chop to a worker there and whipping it immediately size 2.

Chopping workers. I want to get 5 for three cities. Bronze is hooked up. How many axemen should I have?

 

[sampsa]

I want to get 5 for three cities.

Why?

How many axemen should I have?

1-2. Main point is to be safe and stop the war.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Why?

To improve quickly and to have workers for fourth city.

1-2. Main point is to be safe and stop the war.

War is stopped.

I just noticed the capital just now grew to four again. I thought I clicked on the top option for the random event, but it seems to have run the event anyway.

The AI are moving in. The Germans just built a city near my pig/copper city. The Holy Romans took the site to the south of my capital. Warrior in south was heading to secure site to south, but HRE grabbed it. Thoughts for a fourth city site?

The capital is building an axeman (it has a granary already). Trigo and Cobre are building granaries. Cobre will go granary first because it doesn't need an immediate border pop. Cobre has bronze and pigs improved.

The worker in Trigo is building a road to Becerro. The same road will make the stone easily accessible after the border pop. I currently have three workers, but want more. The area to the east of the city seems to be wide open for expansion. It doesn't look like any AI are to the northeast.

None of the AIs have writing yet for open borders. I should build road to Germans after writing for international trade routes. I did pottery > masonry > writing. After writing, what next?

Spoiler :

 

[sampsa]

To improve quickly and to have workers for fourth city.

In general, it's better to expand to at least 4 cities as fast as you can. I think I typically have 3 workers at that point. After you have access to granaries with an EXP leader, new cities need exactly one good improved time for quite many turns (grow to 2, whip gran). While working unimproved tiles is not great in general, also having too many improved tiles is moot.

The capital is building an axeman (it has a granary already).

Because cap has granary, you should take max benefit from it. I'd drop working the gold for a while and work corn, cow, 2*fp. Cobre can work copper. Perhaps you should start a worker though and put a chop towards it. Getting the axe out in the cap doesn't seem urgent even now that you got out of war.

I want to stress that it's more important now to get a settler out than a worker. You are not working unimproved tiles (I wouldn't count fp as unimproved), haven't whipped granaries everywhere so you are not short on workers at all.

4th city location? Area NE or 3S1W capital, which might have iron though.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

There's some really nice bonus resources around, but I'm not excited about any city site nearby. Even the frigid north has furs and silver. I'm going to stop here for a bit. The HRE city to the south had a quick border pop. A city in the south to support the capital would be nice, but it may have a tough time with culture.

 

[sampsa]

First off, you are doing great. Also I have to note that you've neglected plenty of my advice, some of which I repeated in nearly every message. Scouting in the NE is pure insanity (high risk no reward), which can only be explained by the fact that you've played too much emperor. What happened in the capital, did you 1-pop whip an axe? That makes no sense at all. You should GROW in order to 3-pop whip a settler. Early game is about expansion and having enough units to safely expand. There is no reason to slow down. Note that after you've built a granary, it no longer makes sense to slow build any workers/settlers, they should be whipped. I can explain it in more detail if needed.

Spoiler :

 

[LincolnOfRome]

First off, you are doing great. Also I have to note that you've neglected plenty of my advice, some of which I repeated in nearly every message. Scouting in the NE is pure insanity (high risk no reward), which can only be explained by the fact that you've played too much emperor.

The far northeast, where the silver is located, was where my warrior caught up with the HRE scout. The path back involved running from archers into the forest to the north. This one warrior did a vast majority of scouting to the northeast.

What happened in the capital, did you 1-pop whip an axe? That makes no sense at all. You should GROW in order to 3-pop whip a settler.

I did explain this earlier. After the health quest, I took your advice and selected "Forget the tests." A couple turns later, I noticed the capital was one smaller than it should be. It is possible I missclicked. There is still some unhappiness from that quest. If I am going to whip an axeman, I know a trick to two-pop an axeman. You have to feed it less than 5 hammers for one turn and you can get two axemen in two turns.

Early game is about expansion and having enough units to safely expand. There is no reason to slow down. Note that after you've built a granary, it no longer makes sense to slow build any workers/settlers, they should be whipped. I can explain it in more detail if needed.

Yes, please explain.

 

[sampsa]

The far northeast, where the silver is located, was where my warrior caught up with the HRE scout. The path back involved running from archers into the forest to the north. This one warrior did a vast majority of scouting to the northeast.

Hmm ok. I thought you caught the guy just E of 2nd city. Anyway, I think I suggested you to fortify him N of 2nd city. To me, you are moving units very recklessly, causing unnecessary risk. It's a big part of deity mindset just to play as safe as possible, but surely on immortal you can get away with some things.

I did explain this earlier. After the health quest, I took your advice and selected "Forget the tests." A couple turns later, I noticed the capital was one smaller than it should be. It is possible I missclicked. There is still some unhappiness from that quest. If I am going to whip an axeman, I know a trick to two-pop an axeman. You have to feed it less than 5 hammers for one turn and you can get two axemen in two turns.

Oh, missed that! Perhaps you should re-load? Losing a pop and getting 10T of unhappiness for a tiny benefit....

Yes, please explain.

It's due to the way granary works. Slow building worker/settler transforms 1->1 no matter if you have a granary or not. Growing from size 3 to 6 in a city with a granary intending to 3-pop whip (+90) a settler costs how many food? (count or guess, or just check the spoiler)

Spoiler :

Food bar is 22 when size 1, then it goes +2 for every size. Thus growing from 3->6 costs 26+28+30=84, but with a granary when you grow to say size 3 you already have 24/2=12 in the bar. Thus 3->6 costs 14+15+16=45, which can be transformed to 90, offering a 1->2 ratio. This means that the only reason not to always whip workers/settlers is if stacking unhappiness is problematic. And I'd say it's much less problematic than many players think.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Oh, missed that! Perhaps you should re-load? Losing a pop and getting 10T of unhappiness for a tiny benefit....

I noticed the turn I got the other random event that stopped the war. I didn't want to reload after that. I think the herbal quest generates unhappiness for a long time though. I probably should have disabled random events. I don't like many of them.

The granary does allow big savings. I just checked and I have 9 turns of unhappiness left. I can still go to 6 and pop off the unhappiness. I have workers improving the capital. Lay down some cottages?

I can see when the event occurred and reload before that as well. I see your map of possible city sites. Do you like the 3 south and 1 west the most?

 

[sampsa]

Lay down some cottages?

Yeh, cottages where needed, maybe chop/whip a worker in 2nd or 3rd city or both.

I can see when the event occurred and reload before that as well. I see your map of possible city sites. Do you like the 3 south and 1 west the most?

Don't know really. It's a bit of a crap spot as it doesn't claim anything new and could be on iron. Could go 1E of that too I guess. Eastern spots are pretty decent, but perhaps go 1S with the crab-city so you can place northern one on desert gold. In the marked spot no 1st ring food which is problematic. 1S of desert gold is possible too but that blocks the crab/ivory-spot. On ivory in that case I guess.

Where are you planning to build the Mids? Trigo or Cap?

 

[LincolnOfRome]

The jungle island could be a Moai Statue city if it has a seafood resource, but that has to wait for sailing. Open borders will come with writing and I should choose first victim. If I settle right on northeast horse then deer and fur are in the second ring. This gives me a strategic resource most quickly, but city will struggle until borders pop. I have no hunting either. All cities with new resources have that problem. Nothing has new resource and food in first ring.

Horse and corn city has a second ring strategic resource and is weak in production. Germans will claim it though unless I do first, so settling it will block their advancement. It looks like a good future National Park city, but the game probably won't last that long.

I guess Pyramids should go in Trigo. The capital is closer to front lines and can build units.

What tech next? Math will help chops. Alphabet will let me trade techs. Meditation & priesthood will let me build Oracle, but I have no marble. Hunting & Archery will let me build new units. Sailing would let me build galleys if the jungle island can be settled. I could build a workboat in Trigo for exploration. All these nice resources can keep my economy strong though I would probably learn better from a weaker map.

I am a bit overwhelmed by possibilities now and have problems deciding what is most important. Charlemagne is closest to attack, but protective enemies can be draining. Conquering the Germans would give me dominance in the north part of the map and leave me with less borders with others overall. I would guess that most AI's are in the south. The German scout approached me from the northwest. All other scouts approached me from the south.

The only wonder that has been built is Stonehenge.

Don't know really. It's a bit of a crap spot as it doesn't claim anything new and could be on iron. Could go 1E of that too I guess. Eastern spots are pretty decent, but perhaps go 1S with the crab-city so you can place northern one on desert gold. In the marked spot no 1st ring food which is problematic.

I do see the purpose of this city. It can help develop the capital's cottages. It has no special resources, but river grasslands are the most useful of normal terrains. I'm lost, so I'll trust your judgement for the next city.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

I've thought about it a bit. After writing, hunting > archery > alphabet
Becerro - Axeman will finish same turn it gets to population 6. I'll 3-pop the settler and put the overflow into a worker
Trigo - finish granary and build a workboat (the workboat can explore coast and island) then chop into and whip a worker into Pyramids.
Cobre - Finish monument and then build scout (scout can explore civs with open borders) then chop worker.

The settler will build a city on the desert hill northwest of Becerro (silk, corn, horse in BFC). Supporting city south of Becerro will be city five.

Worker 1 - build cottage in shared Becerro/Cobre tile and chop worker for Cobre.
Worker 2 - improve stone.
Worker 3 - build road to new city location.

Axeman 1 - secure new city location
Axeman 2 - defend Becerro

I welcome any suggestions to improve this plan.

 

[sampsa]

The jungle island could be a Moai Statue city if it has a seafood resource, but that has to wait for sailing.

Main reason to build Moai is failgold. In general, just ignore it, it is too weak. There isn't really a time frame where 212 is good, I mean it's decent but not worth investing in.

Horse and corn city has a second ring strategic resource and is weak in production. Germans will claim it though unless I do first, so settling it will block their advancement. It looks like a good future National Park city, but the game probably won't last that long.

Corn-city in NW is decent. Production will always come via whip, so a single -res and some green tile makes a city. Blocking is not really important, it just makes them a juicier target for you. As you hinted (sorry kids and campers) the NP does not exist outside of space games.

I guess Pyramids should go in Trigo. The capital is closer to front lines and can build units.

That is probably a wrong reason to not build it in cap. The main question is where do you get it the fastest?

What tech next? Math will help chops. Alphabet will let me trade techs. Meditation & priesthood will let me build Oracle, but I have no marble. Hunting & Archery will let me build new units. Sailing would let me build galleys if the jungle island can be settled. I could build a workboat in Trigo for exploration. All these nice resources can keep my economy strong though I would probably learn better from a weaker map.

Well. It's a time to pick a strategy. What do you want to do? I think alpha makes sense since you will be first to it. In general I wouldn't go math for chops really (though here it helps since Mids is a big build) but for math-construction which also seems a good choice if you want to conquer some land.

I am a bit overwhelmed by possibilities now and have problems deciding what is most important. Charlemagne is closest to attack, but protective enemies can be draining. Conquering the Germans would give me dominance in the north part of the map and leave me with less borders with others overall. I would guess that most AI's are in the south. The German scout approached me from the northwest. All other scouts approached me from the south.

In general, softest targets first. Neither one is a weak target, which speaks against elepult, but it's guaranteed to work nevertheless.

I've thought about it a bit. After writing, hunting > archery > alphabet

I think it's a LOT better to go hunting-alpha or straight to alpha. Archery is useless for you, for now. The main point of an early alpha is to backfill for free.

Becerro - Axeman will finish same turn it gets to population 6. I'll 3-pop the settler and put the overflow into a worker
Trigo - finish granary and build a workboat (the workboat can explore coast and island) then chop into and whip a worker into Pyramids.
Cobre - Finish monument and then build scout (scout can explore civs with open borders) then chop worker.

Not sure if you do much with a scouting boat. You've met everyone. What are you trying to achieve? In Cobre a worker is higher priority than monument/scout. I get the feeling you worry a bit too much about what is happening with AIs and stuff. It doesn't matter and you can't influence a lot. Try to focus on handling YOUR empire in an efficient way.

The settler will build a city on the desert hill northwest of Becerro (silk, corn, horse in BFC). Supporting city south of Becerro will be city five.

Sensible.

Worker 1 - build cottage in shared Becerro/Cobre tile and chop worker for Cobre.
Worker 2 - improve stone.
Worker 3 - build road to new city location.

Axeman 1 - secure new city location
Axeman 2 - defend Becerro

I welcome any suggestions to improve this plan.

Sensible, except that you shouldn't leave an axe to cap. That is not why you build tougher units. If N/NE is secured by another axe, scout a bit to the west. This would be the time frame when I start pushing scouting a bit since land is now more or less secure from barbarians.

 

[Gumbolt]

German industrious with stone. So they might build mids and other wonders for you? Difficult to beat them if they do build it.
Main danger here is if HRE connects metal or gets phants. Then you are their likely target.