Scandinavian Expansion for VD - Brainstorm

[702]

Hmm...
2 packs might be better after all...
Or, would this be possible?
You have the basic pack, which is from Viking to today, perhaps with some Viking-era leaders, UUs, UBs, etc... depending on the civ, and then an add on with the Vikings, which also alters the later Scandinavian civs, switching Viking-era leaders, UUs, UBs, for post-Viking ones.
Too complicated?

For UUs and UBs, I think the Beserker and Trading Post are fine, if there is a Viking-present pack, could these not be given to one of the civs? (actually I think the Berserker could do with a touch more improvement but the basic unit is ok)

I don't know much about Norway, but I'm not sure I like the idea of the Stavkirke if it replaces one of the generic religious buildings...
How about something representing Bryggen?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryggen
Perhaps it could replace the Harbour and provide extra money from trade routes? Kind of like the Stock Exchange to the Bank.

Finally, for the symbols, my preference would be for the symbols, I think they just look cooler than the modern flag, but that's just me.

 

[NikNaks]

Hmm...
2 packs might be better after all...
Or, would this be possible?
You have the basic pack, which is from Viking to today, perhaps with some Viking-era leaders, UUs, UBs, etc... depending on the civ, and then an add on with the Vikings, which also alters the later Scandinavian civs, switching Viking-era leaders, UUs, UBs, for post-Viking ones.
Too complicated?

That's more-or-less exactly what I was thinking, but simply having two packs: one for the replacement of the Vikings, with both ancient and modern leaders, and one modern pack, where the Vikings stay in.

For UUs and UBs, I think the Beserker and Trading Post are fine, if there is a Viking-present pack, could these not be given to one of the civs? (actually I think the Berserker could do with a touch more improvement but the basic unit is ok)

Where would they go, then? Denmark?

I don't know much about Norway, but I'm not sure I like the idea of the Stavkirke if it replaces one of the generic religious buildings...
How about something representing Bryggen?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryggen
Perhaps it could replace the Harbour and provide extra money from trade routes? Kind of like the Stock Exchange to the Bank.

That would be a nice National Wonder, perhaps. It'd give the pack a little extra flavour, so I might include it if I can find decent art for it.

Finally, for the symbols, my preference would be for the symbols, I think they just look cooler than the modern flag, but that's just me.

Perhaps the symbols could be used for the non-Viking pack, and the flags if they're present? That would make the most sense, but I'll allow an install option for both, probably.

 

[NikNaks]

Double post, but never mind. Here's my current working list.

With Vikings Pack
Sweden
Leaders

• Gustavus Adolphus
• Gustav Vasa
• Charles XII

UU

• Carolean

Denmark
Leaders

• Christian IV
• Margrete

UU

UB

• Windturbine

Norway
Leaders

• St. Olaf
• Haakon VII

UU

• Hirdsmann

Without Vikings Pack
Sweden
Leaders

• Ragnar

UU

• Berserker

Denmark
Leaders

• Canute

UU

• Longboat

Norway
Leaders

• Harald Hardrada
• Harald Fairhair

UU

• Milorg

UB

• Stavkirke

 

[702]

That's more-or-less exactly what I was thinking, but simply having two packs: one for the replacement of the Vikings, with both ancient and modern leaders, and one modern pack, where the Vikings stay in.

Seems fair enough to me!

Where would they go, then? Denmark?

Norway and Denmark would I think be best for the Viking UU and UB, though I don't know which way round they would be. Perhaps if Norway has a "weaker/poorer" choice of UBs then the Trading Post could be Norwegian for instance. They could be default options which could be replaced if anyone had a better idea.

That would be a nice National Wonder, perhaps. It'd give the pack a little extra flavour, so I might include it if I can find decent art for it.

Yeah that could work as well, in that case I'd call it a Kontor,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontor
And since they were present in a number of countries I think it would work very well as a National Wonder. Perhaps an effect would be that it would give an extra trade route to a foreign city with the same Wonder. So if a Kontor is built in York, then another one is built in Timbuktu, York gets an extra trade route with Timbuktu, and Timbuktu with York. If a Kontor is then built in Rome, Rome may get an extra trade route with either York or Timbuktu.

Perhaps the symbols could be used for the non-Viking pack, and the flags if they're present? That would make the most sense, but I'll allow an install option for both, probably.

That seems a good idea.

 

[702]

Also, out of curiosity, why not have one of the Gustavs or Karl for the Viking-present mod?

 

[gopher666]

As you have a better idea on this than most of us, would you be able to select the two most significant leaders from the four suggestions?

I'd love to.

As this might be difficult, could I suggest a scoring system? Give each a score out of five for influence (winning wars, diplomacy, religion), legacy (do modern Norwegians remember them, and are their changes still visible) and popularity and the two with the highest scores go in. Obviously, I've come up with those criteria quickly, so I'm sure you can think of some better ones, but it's a suggestion at least

I think your system sounds good, and I'll go with that.

Harald Fairhair
Influence: 5/5
Legacy: 5/5
Popularity: 2/5
Total: 12

Harald Hardrade
Influence: 3/5
Legacy: 3/5
Popularity: 1/5
Total: 7

St. Olaf Haraldsson
Influence: 4/5
Legacy: 4/5
Popularity: 3/5
Total: 11

Haakon VII
Influence: 4/5
Legacy: 4/5
Popularity: 5/5
Total: 13

Harald Fairhair and Haakon VII, then.

Also, here are the buttons. You'll be able to choose whether to go with symbols or with the modern flags.



Thanks to Yenemus and 0d1n3oo3Broad for the decals for the top 3.

These look sweet.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Hey NikNaks, how is this mod coming?

We should just do the Nordic countries, I believe. Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland. Don't replace the Vikings. That would be like replacing the Celts with Ireland, Scotland, Wales... just not right.

I agree with Madman, probably this is the best solution. I prefer the with Vikings version.
DSN are priority, but the Finns and maybe the Normans can get in too.
So I'll make suggestions only for this version:

Vikings: Ragnar (Vanilla), Canute (cfkane's Beowulf), Harald Hardrada (C. Roland). So we would have one from all Scandinavian civ's past.
UU and UB are the usual, Berserker and Trading Post

Denmark: Margrete (CivGold), Christian IV (Capo's version), and i would add the Christian IV now in Gold after little modifications as Valdemar Sejr (Valdemar II) or Valdemar Atterdag (Valdemar IV)
UU can be the Longboat in this version too, and i like the Wind Turbines as an UB.

Sweden: Gustavus Adolphus (Capo), Karl XII, Gustav Vasa (IgorS). There are no decent LHs for Karl yet.
UU: Carolean, UB: Riksbank (used in CivGold)

Norway: Haakon VII, St. Olaf, Harald Fairhair. No LH yet :S
Altough i think there is an Einar Gerhardsen LH WIP, so you can add him instead one of the medievel rulers. One less LH to make, and he was the most important modern Norvegian leader...
UU: Hirdsmann, UB: Stavkirke

As an extra (optional in install) i would get the remaning two civs in. Just for further flavouring. These are already made, so u won't have too much work with them.
Finland: Leader is Kekonnen (Capo), but u can get the whole civ out of Gold
Normans: Kochman made a really cool Sicilian Norman civ. If u don't like the idea of the Sicilian Normans, a great William the Conqueror LH (Cybrxkhan) was made recently.

 

[gopher666]

Norway: Haakon VII, St. Olaf, Harald Fairhair. No LH yet :S

I'm not entirely sure what a leatherhead is, but I'm sure I've seen either a scandinavian or WW2 mod of sorts before. It had Haakon VII as Norwegian leader. I can't really recall how they had solved his appearance, to be honest, but it might be worth looking into. If I find it, I'll post here.

Altough i think there is an Einar Gerhardsen LH WIP, so you can add him instead one of the medievel rulers. One less LH to make, and he was the most important modern Norvegian leader...

Einar Gerhardsen would make a fine leader too, as the prime minister held chiefly responsible for rebuilding the country after WW2. I'd suggest putting him as Industrious and Financial, as building and the growth and reforging of the Norwegian economy was his primary work.

 

[702]

If you do go ahead with the Wind Turbine for the Danish UB, I have a couple of thoughts,

because it comes so late in the game, and provides something (electricity) that a city probably already has (from a Coal Plant), it will have to be really good.
So perhaps, as well as producing electricity, and not needing to be next to a river, it should also, at the very least, remove any other power plant in the city. That way pollution and/or meltdown risk are gone.
As well as this I think it should probably be cheaper to build than the Hydro Plant, and perhaps also provide a health or happiness bonus.

So perhaps,

Wind Turbine, replaces Hydro Plant - provides electricity, can be built in any city, removes Coal and Nuclear Power Plants, 150 , +1

 

[AbsintheRed]

I'm not entirely sure what a leatherhead is, but I'm sure I've seen either a scandinavian or WW2 mod of sorts before. It had Haakon VII as Norwegian leader. I can't really recall how they had solved his appearance, to be honest, but it might be worth looking into. If I find it, I'll post here.

Not leatherheads, just the usual animated leaderheads.
It would be great if u can find and post that Haakon VII LH here.

If you do go ahead with the Wind Turbine for the Danish UB, I have a couple of thoughts,

because it comes so late in the game, and provides something (electricity) that a city probably already has (from a Coal Plant), it will have to be really good.
So perhaps, as well as producing electricity, and not needing to be next to a river, it should also, at the very least, remove any other power plant in the city. That way pollution and/or meltdown risk are gone.
As well as this I think it should probably be cheaper to build than the Hydro Plant, and perhaps also provide a health or happiness bonus.

So perhaps,

Wind Turbine, replaces Hydro Plant - provides electricity, can be built in any city, removes Coal and Nuclear Power Plants, 150 , +1

Good ideas, but balancing is quite sensitive, so i always prefer to balance all civs at the same time.
So i suggest to wait till NikNaks decides which will be the final UBs and UUs...

 

[gopher666]

Not leatherheads, just the usual animated leaderheads.
It would be great if u can find and post that Haakon VII LH here.

Just in passing, I'll note that Dale's "Road To War" mod has Haakon VII; Dale's solved it by giving Napoleon a moustache. The result isn't terrible, although ymmv. Will look more later.

 

[unfairlane]

Hmm, any scandinavians involved in this selection? Some leaders names should be corrected from those silly english "transelations" like "Charles" XII should be Karl XII. Hardrada should be Hardraade (-strongheaded) aso.

Harald Haarfagre (fairhair??) was the one who fought down all the local leaders/kings and by that founded Norway. Olav Trygvason was the last great viking-king, killed in an ambush by cowardish Swedes and Danes. (they wouldn`t have a chanse in a fair fight but heavily outnumbered Olav had no chance)

Olav the st. should rathe be called by his real name, Olav Haraldson or his nickname Olav Digre (the giant).

 

[AbsintheRed]

Gopher is from Norway.
Spelling: I have no problem with Karl XII, but i kinda like the sound of Harald Fairhair, and i think Olaf Haraldsson is better.

Anyway, for Norway I was thinking we should have Haakon VII or Gerhardsen. One modern leader is enough, and then Harald Fairhair and Olaf Haraldsson can both go in...

 

[veBear]

Landsfaderen (literally Father of the land) Einar Gerhardsen must be in. His reformes formed the backbone of modern Norway and under his period(s) as Prime Minister Norway became a industrialised country. If there is one leader for Norway who is a must, then it is him. When it come's to UU, the Stave Churc would be wrong to, as they are in both Denmark, Sweden and even Russia too. Instead the best UB choiche would be Vannkraftverk (replaces Hydro Plant). This is actually the norwegian word for Hydro Plant, but the main point with that as an UB is that Hydro Plant's have an important part of norways economic and industrial expansion in the later days. Today they provide Norway with almost all (just a small 1% or something like that not provided by Hydro Plants) electricity. The UU look's ok i guess. And when it come's to the old Vikings. Reaname them Germanics, make Berserker replace Axeman and add in a new LH instead of the old Ragnar.

When it come's to city list, i would suggest:
Oslo
Bergen
Trondheim
Eidsvoll
Fredrikshald (Halden)(Where Karl XII were shot)
Stavanger
Narvik
Skien (Where Henrik Ibsen were born)
Ålesund
Tromsø
Arendal
Kristiansand
Sarpsborg (Representing the original and modern day one)
Tønsberg
Lillehammer (Not that important, but sport enthusiast would like it i think)
Drammen
Dombås
Bodø
Åndalsnes
Hamar
Steinkjer
Longyearbyen (In Svalbard)
Namsos
Haugesund
Egersund
Alta
Vardø
Kirkenes
Karasjok
Ny-Ålesund (In Svalbard, the world northernmost functional public settlement)

And i think that should be enought.

P.S.
Use the symbols, so we can some classical Civ4 style. And there might be an idea to use this (the lions) as the danish symbol instead of the earlier raven.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:COA_of_Denmark.svg

P.P.S
The leader names should be Harald Hardråde and Harald Hårfagre, not with these aa letters (Civ4 can use both Æ, Ø and Å, i have tested).

 

[The Capo]

I actually have an unfinished Gerhardsen lying around, it is based on FDR and probably needs a bit of resculpting, I also haven't tested it in-game at all. I don't really know who made this but I have it on my computer.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I think with little improvements this can be made really accurate, so it would make an awesome LH.
Capo, i saw u had a little misunderstanding with Nitram, so I don't think he would take this WIP. He will continue his own project.

So if u have a little time, could u finish this version too? I like this one much better...

 

[The Capo]

I think with little improvements this can be made really accurate, so it would make an awesome LH.
Capo, i saw u had a little misunderstanding with Nitram, so I don't think he would take this WIP. He will continue his own project.

So if u have a little time, could u finish this version too? I like this one much better...

That would sort of be bad form to undercut him like that. I agree with you though, this would look much better. Although he did sort of make William Wallace right after I said I would, so I sort of owe him one.

I'll tell you what though, when I get around to making my Norway module (which shouldn't be that far off actually) I'll do it.

 

[CyberChrist]

Regarding the UBs then I'd suggest the following (I have only listed the differences from default building).

DENMARK:
Offshore Wind Farm (replace Hydro Plant)
* coastal, but doesn't require river
* +1 trade on all water plots

NORWAY:
Whaling Station (replace Harbor)
* provides 1 free Whale resource

SWEDEN:
Riksbank (replace Bank)
* +10% research
and/or
* -10% maintenance

 

[veBear]

I'll tell you what though, when I get around to making my Norway module (which shouldn't be that far off actually) I'll do it.

When you remake that LH, credit me then, as that were my first attempt to make an LH.

 

[AbsintheRed]

When you remake that LH, credit me then, as that were my first attempt to make an LH.

So it's your LH? It was a really promising start, why didn't you finish him?

That would sort of be bad form to undercut him like that. I agree with you though, this would look much better. Although he did sort of make William Wallace right after I said I would, so I sort of owe him one.

I did not mean to undercut him either. Especially Nitram, first because he is a fellow hungarian and second he can be a little sensitive about his LHs...
I just think this version can make a better Gerhardsen. Many LHs has multiple versions, so people can choose which one they like more...

I'll tell you what though, when I get around to making my Norway module (which shouldn't be that far off actually) I'll do it.

Sounds good to me Thanks, Capo!