Science

[Zaldron]

I like the way this is going more, only thing I'm not sure about is:



This seems a pretty powerful turn 0 building, especially compared to a monument.



I like the idea, which you could do to the library at printing press as well perhaps. How about:

• 1 per 1 basic science income per city (was 2 per 1).
• Turn 0 Science building (snappy name) 4. Monument provides 4.
• Library 1 per 1 (+ 15 to 25% at Printing Press).

It's a slow start, getting better as the game goes on.

For small size cities it's actually weaker than a monument though, which is probably the intention, especially if it costs more than a monument. If you give the early science building a fixed science, then it's like vanilla was back in the day where the only strategy is to spam size 3 cities in ICS. For this reason I strongly oppose the early science building offering more than say 1 fixed science.

 

[gunnergoz]

Investing in science in the first couple dozen turns is risky. It has long term benefits to be sure, but those earliest turns are what sets the stage for a lot that follows and there are some fairly critical choices to be made. Make the wrong ones and you have a lot of catching up to do later, which may not be possible. So I like the way this is trending. You can gamble a bit that science will pay off sooner than later, or go with the quick-return investments that show immediate results.

 

[Thalassicus]

This seems a pretty powerful turn 0 building, especially compared to a monument.

Turn 0 Science building (snappy name) 4. Monument provides 4.

It depends on when we want it to be powerful; that suggestion would make it more powerful on turn 0 (or any city of 1-3 population).

 

[Txurce]

It depends on when we want it to be powerful; that suggestion would make it more powerful on turn 0 (or any city of 1-3 population).

The more I thought about it, the more this made sense to me. There's a strong argument for delaying the Storyteller build until the population is high enough to merit the hammer turns (or gold outlay). Speaking of which, this strikes me as a building that should tilt toward being a poor gold buy.

 

[gunnergoz]

Is this yet to be implemented in an upcoming V154.2, since 154.1 is what I'm able to d/l most recently from the link on Thal's site V154.2?

 

[Txurce]

It's on v154.1.

 

[Thalassicus]

The v.2 changes in the patch notes are marked v.2 (at the bottom).

 

[gunnergoz]

Got it, but what I d/l is what...v.1 or v.2 simply marked v.1? Maybe I'm just dense or simply too literal?

 

[Txurce]

At this point I can't follow what you're asking.

 

[mitsho]

If you download the beta, it will always be the newest one listed. In this case v.2. If you have downloaded it before the text of the v2. changes appear, you will have downloaded v1. If Thal does fix further minor things, he will simply add it as v3. Changes that alter the gameplay will then receive a new beta. But those changes in v2. are mostly minor bugfixes and changes in text, not worthy of a real update

I haven't downloaded it, so what is the name of the new science building?

 

[Thalassicus]

The currently downloadable version is v154.1. When I make changes I have two choices on the website:

• Start a new post.
  This lets me note changes on a draft before releasing it to the public, but too many small new posts might annoy people.
• Edit an existing post.
  This avoids spamming people's email inboxes, but might cause confusion.

Both options have their drawbacks. I tend to start new posts, but sometimes edit existing posts when the changes are small. I wait to release a new version until I've had a chance to test it and I'm relatively confident it's stable.

 

[Txurce]

Mentors Hall.

 

[gunnergoz]

If you download the beta, it will always be the newest one listed. In this case v.2. (snip)

True, but as it happens, Thal's page for v.2 is not offering a beta d/l right now. So I was confused as to what was going on.

At this point I can't follow what you're asking.

Thal answered my question, thanks. I was asking if what was being d/l was v.1 or some form of v.1 that was actually v.2. When you go to his site the current article is about v.2. When you click to d/l v.2, what you are taken to is the forum d/l page and what you get after you d/l is labeled v.1.

It was running thru my mind that perhaps what was labeled as v.1 on the file actually was v.2.

 

[albie_123]

I have a request.

Could we change the name of the building to Stone Circle, to represent the earliest astronomers?

Following on from this, could we change Stonehenge into a corresponding early science wonder (That gives a free stone circle) and replace the existing abilities of Stonehenge in a new cultural wonder called the Luxor Obelisk / Cleopatra's Needle (that gives a free monument)?

I think this makes a whole lot more sense historically, and would increase the choice given to us in earlygame.

Here's my suggestion put out in a simpler format:

Stone Circle - 120 - Available at Start

Science per Citizen: 1

Monument - 90 - Available at Start

Culture: 4

Stonehenge - 300 - Available at Calendar

Must be within 2 tiles of Grassland.
Great Engineer Points: 1
Free Building: Stone Circle

A grassland tile near the city gains the Stonehenge improvement, giving:
Science: 6
Culture: 3​

Luxor Obelisk - 300 - Available at Writing

Culture: 5
Border Expansion Range: 3
Great Artist Points: 1
Free Building: Monument

And, as a bonus, here's an icon for the stone circle. Pictured are Ursa Major and Minor (Not to scale ), which have importance in many cultures across the globe.

 

[sukritact]

I personally don't see anything wrong with calling it a "mentor's hall". Most civilizations had private schools for the children of the elites and the nobles. The Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Greeks and Chinese all had them, even the Incans had them, and they didn't even have a writing system.

 

[albie_123]

My problem with it is that this building is located at Agriculture - that is, effectively just coming out of the prehistoric era.

 

[gunnergoz]

I think it very fittingly belongs where it is...to me it represents the earliest attempt by settled humans to formalize the passing down of important knowledge without which the community cannot survive, let alone advance. It is the next stage of education up from the individual mentoring of a parent to child, to the more formalized mentoring of several (maybe more) youth that would be provided by a community-recognized (if not appointed) expert/teacher of some particular skill or body of knowledge. Unfortunately, there seem to be few actual descriptive words for it in the lexicon, but "mentoring hut" or its equivalent seems pretty right on the money as to its function.

 

[albie_123]

That sort of 'mentoring' is seen in chimpanzees as well, though. I would have thought for something to become a building it would have to be something which some civilizations may choose to ignore.

EDIT: Oh, sorry, misread your post. I understand what you mean by mentoring now... still not 100% sold on the idea, but, the name really doesn't matter too much.

 

[sukritact]

Well, just in case we're going to keep the "Mentor's hall", I've made an icon.
A bit anachronistic (looks like it may belong in the classical era) but it's still better than the icons for the garden, the bank and scientific theory, those all look like they belong in the modern era.

 

[albie_123]

I like that very much.