Screenshot stills from the video: more content

[Ahriman]

1050 turns is much longer than Civ4 on normal speed, no?
[Sorry, so long since I played vanilla.]

 

[stealth_nsk]

Guys, the game took 250 turns till 1700. I think it's about half of the game. So 500 turns seems realistic. Don't which speed it is, though.

 

[asboethius]

I'm going to take a guess here and say that agriculture, hunting and fishing are not in the tech tree.

Hunting and fishing were common human activities before the establishment of settlements, and it was the advent of agriculture that started settlements.

So I would suggest that all workers can build farms and cities can build fishing boats and scouts from the start. The hunting camp might be replaced by the trapping camps later on in the tech tree.

 

[eireksten]

I'm going to take a guess here and say that agriculture, hunting and fishing are not in the tech tree.

So, what do you think the left part of the tech tree is occupied by then? It is obvious from the scrollbar that it isn't scrolled entirely to the left. It doesn't necessarily mean that there are more techs there, but that sounds most likely to me (especially since it looks like there is a lot of room left there)...

 

[KrikkitTwo]

So, what do you think the left part of the tech tree is occupied by then? It is obvious from the scrollbar that it isn't scrolled entirely to the left. It doesn't necessarily mean that there are more techs there, but that sounds most likely to me (especially since it looks like there is a lot of room left there)...

No there isn't, there is Barely enough space for 1 Tier..
The fact that there are no prerequisites going beyond the visible tier of archery/mining/ etc., and the fact that you need Some extra space for a good presentation, indicates to me that the far left is either blank or has some other information (time to reach current targeted tech or something where you can see the tech trees of other civs... a list of civ you have research agreements with.)

 

[eireksten]

No there isn't, there is Barely enough space for 1 Tier..

I disagree. Note the difference on the scrollbar from scrolling two tiers to the left. It seems to me that there should be plenty of room (including room for a nice presentation) for another tier if it scrolls all the way to the beginning.

The fact that there are no prerequisites going beyond the visible tier of archery/mining/ etc.

You can't say that there aren't any. The screen never scrolls far enough left to show them if they are there.

For your suggestions to what else could be there, that could possibly use that space. Still, those things doesn't strike me as things you'd want to have to scroll to see. If visible at all, they should be located in the interface independently of what part of the tech tree you are viewing.

 

[asboethius]

So, what do you think the left part of the tech tree is occupied by then? It is obvious from the scrollbar that it isn't scrolled entirely to the left. It doesn't necessarily mean that there are more techs there, but that sounds most likely to me (especially since it looks like there is a lot of room left there)...

I don't think there is enough room for another tier of techs personally, but even if there was, there are no techs that would make sense over there.

With no tech trading, there was probably huge discussions about streamlining the tech tree. Removing Agriculture, Hunting and Fishing from the starting tech tier makes sense from a game design point of view.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Originally Posted by Krikkitone
The fact that there are no prerequisites going beyond the visible tier of archery/mining/ etc.

You can't say that there aren't any. The screen never scrolls far enough left to show them if they are there.

I mean there are no "Tier 0" (disputed tier) prerequisites for any Tier 2 (seond visible Tier) or higher techs (since you Would see those)... and that makes that early part of the tech tree incredibly boring.

Most other Tiers have some prerequisites that cross tiers (some Tier 1 techs a prereqs for Tier 3, some Tier 2 for Tier 4, etc.)


Empty space=~18 mm.. some Needed for rest of Tier 1)
Length of bar (showing almost 4 full Tiers)=~53 mm

so each Tier takes ~14 mm... and some of Tier 1 is not visible..

 

[eireksten]

I mean there are no "Tier 0" (disputed tier) prerequisites for any Tier 2 (seond visible Tier) or higher techs (since you Would see those)... and that makes that early part of the tech tree incredibly boring.

Most other Tiers have some prerequisites that cross tiers (some Tier 1 techs a prereqs for Tier 3, some Tier 2 for Tier 4, etc.)

Okay, I can accept that as an argument. I still don't think that's necessarily the case, though. Civ4 doesn't have any such dependencies either (unless you count BW, which is displayed on the second tier.

I don't think that necessarily would make it more boring either.

Empty space=~18 mm.. some Needed for rest of Tier 1)
Length of bar (showing almost 4 full Tiers)=~53 mm

so each Tier takes ~14 mm... and some of Tier 1 is not visible..

The length of the bar does not necessarily map exactly to screen size. Try measuring the amount of empty space to the left on the scroll bar when showing, and not showing tier 1. On my screen, I get ~14mm when showing the Pottery tier, while it's ~26mm when it's scrolled one more tier to the right. Sounds just about perfect for another tier at the beginning.

I also find it a bit strange that "Ancient Era" would not be centered above those two tiers if they were all that were there. Seeing that "Medieval Era" is centered above its two tiers and all.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I also find it a bit strange that "Ancient Era" would not be centered above those two tiers if they were all that were there. Seeing that "Medieval Era" is centered above its two tiers and all.

OK, that's a good argument.

I guess they could have some Tier 0... hopefully they won't be quite as restrictive though.

 

[Ahriman]

The fact that there are no prerequisites going beyond the visible tier of archery/mining/ etc.

I also find it a bit strange that "Ancient Era" would not be centered above those two tiers if they were all that were there. Seeing that "Medieval Era" is centered above its two tiers and all.

These both seem reasonable. So, hard to tell.

I guess they could have some Tier 0

I'd be amazed if there weren't an agriculture tech. Only the most important development in all of human history...

 

[asboethius]

I'd be amazed if there weren't an agriculture tech. Only the most important development in all of human history...

That's why I think everyone will start with agriculture. How can you build a permanent settlement without agriculture? That is how important it is.

 

[Schuesseled]

i wouldnt be suprised if the three techs have a prerequisit of agirculture of some other other super basic tech to start off your civ.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

These both seem reasonable. So, hard to tell.


I'd be amazed if there weren't an agriculture tech. Only the most important development in all of human history...

What about Fire
or Toolmaking
or Language

hence not liking 'agriculture' for a Tier 0 tech...
perhaps Irrigation... leads to Pottery
If your people are working grassland they can be assumed to be farming it.. but you need to Build Irrigation.

Hunting.. also not good for a Tier 0 tech

Maybe a Tech that opens up Barracks and the Honor SP Tree, leads to Archery

It and 'Exploration' are required for Animal Husbandry

Then a tech that gives +1 production from Forest Tiles.. Logging?... also gives slight boost to city defense. and leads to Mining

 

[Ahriman]

That's why I think everyone will start with agriculture.

Even if people start with it, its easier to still have that be a tech, to clearly display to the player what they can do from it.

or Toolmaking
or Language

These aren't really specific innovations, and are hard to draw boundaries around - what exactly is a tool - a rock, a stick? - and what exactly is language - any form of communication? Even some animals use tools, or communicate with each other verbally.
Whereas deliberately planting crops in the ground so you can eat them later is a pretty deliberate non-incremental Thing.

perhaps Irrigation... leads to Pottery

Rainfed agriculture predates irrigation. It wouldn't make sense for irrigation to be required so early I think.

If your people are working grassland they can be assumed to be farming it.

Or hunting animals that live on it.

Hunting.. also not good for a Tier 0 tech

Why not?

Maybe a Tech that opens up Barracks and the Honor SP Tree, leads to Archery

Like hunting? Hunting->archery seems very logical.

I'm still guessing Fishing.

 

[asboethius]

Even if people start with it, its easier to still have that be a tech, to clearly display to the player what they can do from it.

That seems reasonable. To the left might be agriculture, fishing and hunting, but they are the "starting techs" and don't need to be researched or lead anywhere.

 

[Fibonacci1123]

I notice from reading Col Kurtz's post http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9291526&postcount=58 in image #10

Spoiler :

Trapping allows "Workers to construct the Trading Post, which increases the Gold output of map tiles."

It sounds to me like you can construct Trading Posts anywhere. So, does the Trading Post replace the Cottage in Civ 5?

 

[Swashbuckler.]

Well in the pottery tile there is only icon for granary so I think cottages are off But I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Danger]

Spoiler :

City screen (note: 11 citizens, but city icon says 12 - new city has no citizens?)

Maybe the 12 represents the hitpoints of the city that Firaxis has told us about?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well in the pottery tile there is only icon for granary so I think cottages are off But I hope I'm wrong.

I still say that the tech tree is incomplete but, even if that's wrong, whose to say that Cottages haven't been moved to a different tech? Indeed, given the description of the Trading Post, I'm going to go out on a limb & say that they *are* the replacement for cottages but-like cottages-they still grow over time. Think about it: a trading post is established &, as it is worked, it grows into a hamlet, then a village & then a town. Just a thought.

Aussie.