Second Leaders: Which Civs Need Them?

[Zaarin]

Napoleon can sit Civ6 out and come back for Civ7/8.
I would like Louis XIV to get a voiced appearance, not necessarily as an alt leader for France in Civ6, but in a future game.

Joan of Arc, I won't accept as French leader. I feel bad for her, she was like 16 when she got burned to death, but I don't think she qualifies as a French Civ leader.

I think he can wait for CivX at this point. Also, Jeanne d'Arc was nineteen at the time of her death, sixteen when she became the "Maid of Orléans."

 

[Guandao]

I think he can wait for CivX at this point. Also, Jeanne d'Arc was nineteen at the time of her death, sixteen when she became the "Maid of Orléans."

Looks like I misremembered Jeanne's age at the time of her death.
I do have a soft spot for France since my second language from Middle to High School was French. Also went on a trip to Paris and Provence with my High School French class.

 

[Zaarin]

Looks like I misremembered Jeanne's age at the time of her death.
I do have a soft spot for France since my second language from Middle to High School was French. Also went on a trip to Paris and Provence with my High School French class.

I took French in high school and college as well.

 

[Patine]

Well, it looks like a deadlock again. I'll throw in Charles de Gaulle again. In for a centime, in for a franc.

 

[God of Kings]

I took French from elementary school to high school.

 

[halfhalfharp]

Joan of Arc, I won't accept as French leader. I feel bad for her, she was like 16 when she got burned to death, but I don't think she qualifies as a French Civ leader.

Agree, just like we won't make Jesus a leader of Jewish empire.

Honestly, if I were at Firaxis and told that for whatever strange reason France must have a female leader, I would've chosen Eleanor of Aquitaine.

Oh no, Eleanor might suit for a love story or drama but she is far from politically influential ruler. Catherine might not be liked, but she did rule. And she brought many unnoticed influence-- like the introduction of fork from Italy, when the rest of Europe was still using hands to grab food.

 

[God of Kings]

Catherine might not be liked, but she did rule. And although she brought many unnoticed influence-- like the introduction of fork from Italy, when the rest of Europe was still using hands to grab food.

She also introduced ice cream to the French as well.

 

[halfhalfharp]

She also introduced ice cream to the French as well.

If thats the case, Catherine is my favorite

But I still want to see Louis XIV and other powerful french leaders

 

[fredrikslicer]

If thats the case, Catherine is my favorite

I second that

 

[Patine]

Agree, just like we won't make Jesus a leader of Jewish empire.

What Jewish Empire? I mean, Jews are an ancient, influential, and far-flung people who've valued education and discipline traditionally, and have, at certain and in certain places, dominated certain professions (like moneylending, admittedly, in places and times that Christians and Moslems have forbidden their own followers to engage in it), but they have never, in all that long history, had anything that can be called an outright military, political, AND economic 'empire.'

 

[halfhalfharp]

What Jewish Empire? I mean, Jews are an ancient, influential, and far-flung people who've valued education and discipline traditionally, and have, at certain and in certain places, dominated certain professions (like moneylending, admittedly, in places and times that Christians and Moslems have forbidden their own followers to engage in it), but they have never, in all that long history, had anything that can be called an outright military, political, AND economic 'empire.'

Emmm... Kingdom of Israel, Somewhere in David/Solomon's time?

 

[God of Kings]

Emmm... Kingdom of Israel, Somewhere in David/Solomon's time?

Call it the Hebrews for a less politically contentious name.

 

[halfhalfharp]

Call it the Hebrews for a less politically contentious name.

Technically they were Jewish. But anyway call it Hebrew as it pleases anyone.

 

[Patine]

Technically they were Jewish. But anyway call it Hebrew as it pleases anyone.

My main qualm, more in pedantic than PC terms, by far, actually, is that the Kingdom of Israel of Antiquity was a small kingdom, not an 'empire.' I'm not overly concerned if you refer to it's denizens as Jews or Hebrews, it's the political scope of that Ancient polity and the term used that I was correcting at least (other may have had other issues).

 

[Lord Lakely]

Having Israel/Hebrew/Judea as a Civ isn't any different from having Georgia, Scotland or Mapuche. It's a recognisable, ancient, out there culture. Definitely preferable to some other options (I'm looking at YOU, Zulu )

 

[halfhalfharp]

Having Israel/Hebrew/Judea as a Civ isn't any different from having Georgia, Scotland or Mapuche. It's a recognisable, ancient, out there culture. Definitely preferable to some other options (I'm looking at YOU, Zulu )

I still remember how I laughed when I heard "Venice" and "Zulu" empire. So yeah, Israel should have no shame in that.

My main qualm, more in pedantic than PC terms, by far, actually, is that the Kingdom of Israel of Antiquity was a small kingdom, not an 'empire.' I'm not overly concerned if you refer to it's denizens as Jews or Hebrews, it's the political scope of that Ancient polity and the term used that I was correcting at least (other may have had other issues).

Very impressive. And why are we talking about Jewish empire or not here? Maybe let's turn back to the previous topic we are discussing, an alt leader for existing civ?

 

[Patine]

Having Israel/Hebrew/Judea as a Civ isn't any different from having Georgia, Scotland or Mapuche. It's a recognisable, ancient, out there culture. Definitely preferable to some other options (I'm looking at YOU, Zulu )

I'm not saying Israel/Judea couldn't be a decent civ, I'm saying, by definition, they weren't an empire. Though, would Solomon, Herod (a bit compromised as an autonomous Roman proxy ruler, but big builder of structures and big on trade, luxuries, and promoting local religion), or David Ben-Gurion be the best leader, here? All very different leader in VERY different time periods.

 

[Siptah]

I still remember how I laughed when I heard "Venice" and "Zulu" empire. So yeah, Israel should have no shame in that.

Venice and Zulu easily qualify as empires. The Stato da mar is in many respects a special case, but it is also the prototype of the later European imperialists in many ways. Empires don‘t need to have an absolute monarch. Zulu can go with both Kingdom or Empire in texts. Structurally, it is closer to an empire in my opinion.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm not saying Israel/Judea couldn't be a decent civ, I'm saying, by definition, they weren't an empire.

A Civ doesn't necessarily equal an empire.
Take the Cree for example.
Land size isn't relevant either.
Founder of one of the worlds major religion as well. Would be the perfect time to put it in the game with the new religious victory if possible.

 

[Phrozen]

Philip Augustus. He is new to the franchise. He made the French crown powerful and Paris the center of French culture. He was cunning in dealing with his more powerful vassals eventually bringing most of them to heel or conquering their lands for the crown. He could have a bonus to flipping and conquering independent cities.