Second Leaders: Which Civs Need Them?

@The Kingmaker Egypt, France, Germany, and England I can see--the leaders they selected for those have either been unpopular or unconventional--but I really hope we don't see new leaders for Rome or America, who already have good leaders. I would welcome a new leader for China, though. There's nothing wrong with Qin, but he was a very, very safe choice compared to some other civs' more interesting leaders. I'd like to see a Tang emperor, personally: either Taizong or Wu Zetian.
 
England: Victoria isn't bad but as others have pointed out she had little power.
Germany: Barbarossa at least led a semi-united HRE.

Egypt and France are needed.

I would say Russia's uniques while they don't represent Peter well do represent Russia, until the Soviets, well. Faith, large territory, and lots of great writers and musicians.
 
I would ask for Sumer, Assyria and Babylon. All three.

Sumer of course was the earliest and is a language-isolate.

Babylon and Assyria were founded later by Semitic peoples and each was a major civ in its own right.

We've got Brazil, Scotland and Australia now, we can afford to give the great empires of antiquity their dues.

I was thinking that by having a unified mesopotamian civ for the semitic empires of the region you could then have a leader representing each individual state
Then again there hasn´t been that many alternate leaders so three civs might be a better suggestion because its more likely to happen

I would personally like to see Akkad considering it was the first unification of Mesopotamia and the language and so forth

Now on the topic Sumer could use some alternate leaders like Gudea or Ur-Nammu
 
Changing the subject back to second leaders, I expect any further second leaders will go to civs off the following list:

Egypt
Rome
China
America
England
Germany
France
Russia

I don't expect second leaders for DLC or XP civs or for more obscure offerings like Scythia or Brazil.

I wouldn't have expected a second leader for Spain, but they at least started to make one. No idea whether Isabella will actually be released though.

Ohh sorry I know I am powerful in distracting haha.
I agree with most of the list instead of Rome. Trajan wasn't that underwhelming and un-popular after all. I like him around anyway, although he likes to denounce me.

Spain does need a buff actually so I think it should be on the list too.

And really, no one thinks of the poor Norway? It is literally (and really) the weakest civ by now.
 
Now on the topic Sumer could use some alternate leaders like Gudea or Ur-Nammu
The problem is the idiotic design of the civ as it stands at present. At present, there is no Sumer in game; there is "Gilgabro and Enkidu at Uruk." :wallbash: The Sumerians don't just need an alternate leader; they need an entire redesign. (But yeah, Gudea and Ur-Nammu, in that order, would be my preferred choices for Sumer.)
 
The problem is the idiotic design of the civ as it stands at present. At present, there is no Sumer in game; there is "Gilgabro and Enkidu at Uruk." :wallbash: The Sumerians don't just need an alternate leader; they need an entire redesign. (But yeah, Gudea and Ur-Nammu, in that order, would be my preferred choices for Sumer.)

Very true, Sumerian Unique currently have nothing to do with Sumeria. Gilgabro:lol::lol::lol::lol: that phrase made my day.

I was thinking that by having a unified mesopotamian civ for the semitic empires of the region you could then have a leader representing each individual state
Then again there hasn´t been that many alternate leaders so three civs might be a better suggestion because its more likely to happen

I would personally like to see Akkad considering it was the first unification of Mesopotamia and the language and so forth

That can be an idea to free some rooms for other civs.... I think Akkad can be an option to fuse Babylon and Assyria,
although they do have some distinct differences, which can be better represented by a civ ability, rather than a leader ability.

But smashing them into Sumerian is a NoGo :aargh:
 
Changing the subject back to second leaders, I expect any further second leaders will go to civs off the following list:

Egypt
Rome
China
America
England
Germany
France
Russia

I don't expect second leaders for DLC or XP civs or for more obscure offerings like Scythia or Brazil.

I wouldn't have expected a second leader for Spain, but they at least started to make one. No idea whether Isabella will actually be released though.
I agree that this list seems the most probable.
What I would like to see:
Egypt: Any male pharaoh honestly. Akhenaten would be the most interesting with faith based abilities.
Rome: I don't necessarily see them getting one. If they do it could be a more militaristic approach to a leader instead of infrastructure. Would be interesting if it was Julius Caesar during the Republic.
China: Many possibilities. Wu Zetian stands out as a female, but doubtful for repeat. Ming China or early Qing would be interesting. I would like to make them more science focused, since they already get some cultural bonuses with the Great Wall.
America: If they get another leader I would go with Thomas Jefferson. Louisiana Purchase ability would be interesting. I don't know how buying tiles cheaper and faster from other players would work but it would be unique. But I think Teddy is fine.
England: I guess Elizabeth would be a good choice. We already have a Medieval leader with Scotland and too many modern leaders for Churchill. Plus she could give us a Globe Theatre wonder. :mischief:
Germany: United Germany leader. Bismarck would be good honestly. Diplomatic German leader would be nice. I don't want to go closer to modern. :shifty:
France: Louis XIV. There's no one else. :p
Russia: Soviet era Russia would be good. I would do Lenin personally.
Spain: Isabella is a possibility if they wanted to do an exploration based leader, but they might just give that to Portugal in the future.
 
Honestly, there's nothing particularly wondrous about the Globe other than the fact Shakespeare performed there. I'd hate to see the Globe when we still don't even have a single Gothic cathedral wonder in the game.
 
Honestly, there's nothing particularly wondrous about the Globe other than the fact Shakespeare performed there. I'd hate to see the Globe when we still don't even have a single Gothic cathedral wonder in the game.
Isn't that what made it wondrous in the first place? :p
Of course I wouldn't mind say Notre Dame either.
Would a free Great Writer with the globe be too OP?
The Louvre would also be nice with Louis XIV but I don't know how to differentiate it from the Hermitage.
 
The Louvre would also be nice with Louis XIV but I don't know how to differentiate it from the Hermitage.
I'd rather see Versailles than the Louvre. :p

Notre Dame de Paris has being iconic going for it, but I think I'd rather see Notre Dame de Chartres or Reims Cathedral. For secular Gothic, Palais des Papes would be pretty cool, too.
 
I assume they will either want to represent different aspects of the culture (ie. Athens v. Sparta) or different time periods (ie. Gandhi v. Chandragupta) or both. This being VI, they may want leaders who haven't been done before, unless it's a big enough name to guarantee sales.

Egypt - they have a classical queen, so I'd expect an ancient king. Ramses is obvious. Akhenaten is a big personality and might be eclectic enough to be interesting. Khufu, Amenhotep III and Thutmose III are also good possibilities.
Rome - they have one of the "good" emperors, so I'd expect either a consul of the republic or a "bad" emperor. Julius and Augustus Caesar are of course too obvious. Scipio and Cicero are good republic picks. Marcus Aurelius is famous but wouldn't play all that differently from Trajan. Finally, Caligula, Nero, etc. are big personalities and would represent a whole other side of Rome.
China - they have the first emperor. Probably not Mao due to modern sensibilities with the Chinese market. (They had to remove Mao and make a custom Taizong leader just for Chinese players in Civ4.) Wu Zetian is a good counterpoint to Qin. Taizong is another good choice that hasn't really been seen in the western markets much (unless you count CivRev2). Yongle/Zhu Di also has a lot of fans. Kangxi too. And of course, everybody is infatuated with the 3 Kingdoms period (it's even getting it's own Total War game) so there's Cao Cao the warlord. A very different playstyle from Qin.
America - they have a late industrial/early modern president. I guess there's always Lincoln, though he's not that far off from TR and has been done to death. FDR is not likely since they probably don't want exclusively Roosevelt presidents. I bet they'll go colonial; either Washington or perhaps Jefferson, who hasn't been done before.
England - Elizabeth is a big name, though she might not play all that differently from Vicky. Henry VIII would play very differently. So would Alfred the Great. If they want to complete their 3rd Crusade collection of leaders, then Richard I is a must, though we've almost reached a supersaturation of medieval leaders and he could barely speak English, if at all. I wouldn't like it if they went with Oliver Cromwell or Winston Churchill, but that's just me.
France - They need to get this one right, since Catherine was a controversial choice. Louis XIV is the obvious pick, though Napoleon has his fans. Richelieu would be unconventional but interesting. Joan of Arc would be another controversial pick that might set people off, so I don't think she's likely this time. Going back to the 3rd Crusade motif, they'd need Philip Augustus.
Germany - I don't think they really need one, since Barbarossa was the perfect choice. Bismarck is an obvious counterpart though -- an industrial era Chancellor opposite a medieval emperor.
Russia - they have a progressive emperor in Peter, maybe they'll go with a reactionary leader like Ivan IV. He'd be crazy. :) Soviets are controversial. I doubt we'll see Stalin. Lenin is a little more likely, but not by much. Catherine was extremely popular. They could bring her back if they differentiate her enough from the French Catherine.
Japan - very hard to say. They obviously won't want another Shikken. Emperors are out because it's sacrilege to depict them this way in Japan, despite how much everyone would want Meiji. Queen Himiko is technically not an Emperor/Empress and would be a rare female leader for Japan, but she's semi-mythical. That leaves a bunch of Shoguns. Minamoto no Yoritomo hasn't been done yet, but he may be too close chronologically to Hojo. The Sengoku leaders are always popular: Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Ieyasu. They'd have to be more aggressive than Hojo though.
 
Last edited:
And of course, everybody is infatuated with the 3 Kingdoms period (it's even getting it's own Total War game)
Unexpected and makes me way more excited than I have any right to be. :p

Napoleon Bonaparte, Napoleon III, Philippe Auguste, Henry IV... :p
If we didn't have CdM, I would love Louis-Napoleon as the unexpected leader of France. Philippe Augustus and Louis XIV are my top hopes, though.
 
Andrew Jackson for the U.S and make him really good at wars. Sounds great.
 
Japan can have one of the three main players in the Satcho Alliance that lead to the Meiji Restoration: Okubo Toschmichi (Home Lord: controlled the police and army), Saigo Takamori (caretaker of the government when the Iwakura mission was away), Kido Takayoshi (Imperial advisor, educated Meiji).
 
I'd rather see Versailles than the Louvre. :p

Notre Dame de Paris has being iconic going for it, but I think I'd rather see Notre Dame de Chartres or Reims Cathedral. For secular Gothic, Palais des Papes would be pretty cool, too.
Part of me would like to see Versailles as his capital. I mean it is considered outside of Paris. For his ability I would like things that give out culture to provide amenities, including great works in the palace, theater square buildings, and make chateau's better.
 
Unexpected and makes me way more excited than I have any right to be. :p


If we didn't have CdM, I would love Louis-Napoleon as the unexpected leader of France. Philippe Augustus and Louis XIV are my top hopes, though.
Don't know that much about Philippe Augustus, but the few i read makes it would be a good choice, even if my preference is for Francis I. Louis XIV is good one to take low risk.
 
Don't know that much about Philippe Augustus, but the few i read makes it would be a good choice, even if my preference is for Francis I. Louis XIV is good one to take low risk.

Philip Augustus made the crown of France powerful rather than be far behind its vassals.
 
Back
Top Bottom