Secret panel can put Americans on kill list

amadeus

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From The Land of The Free:

Secret panel can put Americans on "kill list"

(Reuters) - American militants like Anwar al-Awlaki are placed on a kill or capture list by a secretive panel of senior government officials, which then informs the president of its decisions, according to officials.

There is no public record of the operations or decisions of the panel, which is a subset of the White House's National Security Council, several current and former officials said. Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate.

The panel was behind the decision to add Awlaki, a U.S.-born militant preacher with alleged al Qaeda connections, to the target list. He was killed by a CIA drone strike in Yemen late last month.

The role of the president in ordering or ratifying a decision to target a citizen is fuzzy. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor declined to discuss anything about the process.

Current and former officials said that to the best of their knowledge, Awlaki, who the White House said was a key figure in al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, al Qaeda's Yemen-based affiliate, had been the only American put on a government list targeting people for capture or death due to their alleged involvement with militants.

The White House is portraying the killing of Awlaki as a demonstration of President Barack Obama's toughness toward militants who threaten the United States. But the process that led to Awlaki's killing has drawn fierce criticism from both the political left and right.

In an ironic turn, Obama, who ran for president denouncing predecessor George W. Bush's expansive use of executive power in his "war on terrorism," is being attacked in some quarters for using similar tactics. They include secret legal justifications and undisclosed intelligence assessments.

Liberals criticized the drone attack on an American citizen as extra-judicial murder.

Conservatives criticized Obama for refusing to release a Justice Department legal opinion that reportedly justified killing Awlaki. They accuse Obama of hypocrisy, noting his administration insisted on publishing Bush-era administration legal memos justifying the use of interrogation techniques many equate with torture, but refused to make public its rationale for killing a citizen without due process.

Some details about how the administration went about targeting Awlaki emerged on Tuesday when the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Representative Dutch Ruppersberger, was asked by reporters about the killing.

The process involves "going through the National Security Council, then it eventually goes to the president, but the National Security Council does the investigation, they have lawyers, they review, they look at the situation, you have input from the military, and also, we make sure that we follow international law," Ruppersberger said.

LAWYERS CONSULTED

Other officials said the role of the president in the process was murkier than what Ruppersberger described.

They said targeting recommendations are drawn up by a committee of mid-level National Security Council and agency officials. Their recommendations are then sent to the panel of NSC "principals," meaning Cabinet secretaries and intelligence unit chiefs, for approval. The panel of principals could have different memberships when considering different operational issues, they said.

The officials insisted on anonymity to discuss sensitive information.

They confirmed that lawyers, including those in the Justice Department, were consulted before Awlaki's name was added to the target list.

Two principal legal theories were advanced, an official said: first, that the actions were permitted by Congress when it authorized the use of military forces against militants in the wake of the attacks of September 11, 2001; and they are permitted under international law if a country is defending itself.

Several officials said that when Awlaki became the first American put on the target list, Obama was not required personally to approve the targeting of a person. But one official said Obama would be notified of the principals' decision. If he objected, the decision would be nullified, the official said.

A former official said one of the reasons for making senior officials principally responsible for nominating Americans for the target list was to "protect" the president.

Officials confirmed that a second American, Samir Khan, was killed in the drone attack that killed Awlaki. Khan had served as editor of Inspire, a glossy English-language magazine used by AQAP as a propaganda and recruitment vehicle.

But rather than being specifically targeted by drone operators, Khan was in the wrong place at the wrong time, officials said. Ruppersberger appeared to confirm that, saying Khan's death was "collateral," meaning he was not an intentional target of the drone strike.

When the name of a foreign, rather than American, militant is added to targeting lists, the decision is made within the intelligence community and normally does not require approval by high-level NSC officials.

'FROM INSPIRATIONAL TO OPERATIONAL'

Officials said Awlaki, whose fierce sermons were widely circulated on English-language militant websites, was targeted because Washington accumulated information his role in AQAP had gone "from inspirational to operational." That meant that instead of just propagandizing in favor of al Qaeda objectives, Awlaki allegedly began to participate directly in plots against American targets.

"Let me underscore, Awlaki is no mere messenger but someone integrally involved in lethal terrorist activities," Daniel Benjamin, top counterterrorism official at the State Department, warned last spring.

The Obama administration has not made public an accounting of the classified evidence that Awlaki was operationally involved in planning terrorist attacks.

But officials acknowledged that some of the intelligence purporting to show Awlaki's hands-on role in plotting attacks was patchy.

For instance, one plot in which authorities have said Awlaki was involved Nigerian-born Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, accused of trying to blow up a Detroit-bound U.S. airliner on Christmas Day 2009 with a bomb hidden in his underpants.

There is no doubt Abdulmutallab was an admirer or follower of Awlaki, since he admitted that to U.S. investigators. When he appeared in a Detroit courtroom earlier this week for the start of his trial on bomb-plot charges, he proclaimed, "Anwar is alive."

But at the time the White House was considering putting Awlaki on the U.S. target list, intelligence connecting Awlaki specifically to Abdulmutallab and his alleged bomb plot was partial. Officials said at the time the United States had voice intercepts involving a phone known to have been used by Awlaki and someone who they believed, but were not positive, was Abdulmutallab.

Awlaki was also implicated in a case in which a British Airways employee was imprisoned for plotting to blow up a U.S.-bound plane. E-mails retrieved by authorities from the employee's computer showed what an investigator described as " operational contact" between Britain and Yemen.

Authorities believe the contacts were mainly between the U.K.-based suspect and his brother. But there was a strong suspicion Awlaki was at the brother's side when the messages were dispatched. British media reported that in one message, the person on the Yemeni end supposedly said, "Our highest priority is the US ... With the people you have, is it possible to get a package or a person with a package on board a flight heading to the US?"

U.S. officials contrast intelligence suggesting Awlaki's involvement in specific plots with the activities of Adam Gadahn, an American citizen who became a principal English-language propagandist for the core al Qaeda network formerly led by Osama bin Laden.

While Gadahn appeared in angry videos calling for attacks on the United States, officials said he had not been specifically targeted for capture or killing by U.S. forces because he was regarded as a loudmouth not directly involved in plotting attacks.

Questions: should President Obama be impeached for the extrajudicial execution of an American citizen? Should he face trial, like a regular peace officer, for killing someone who was not an immediate threat to himself or others? What should be done about the secret government panel that can order the extrajudicial executions of anyone?
 
This was a military strike and not an execution. No, Obama shouldnt face trial, and there isnt a single US court that would ever convict him for killing a leader of Al Qaeda actively working to attack the USA.

The decision to add him to the list wasnt a secret either. Obama mentioned it months and months ago in a press release.
 
Remember... he campaigned on "Transparency"...
And over half the voters bought that line.

Yes, civil trials for non-citizen terrorists...
Drone missile trials for citizen terrorists, so long as they aren't in the US of A.
Seems logical.

Gotta love the O-man!
 
Remember... he campaigned on "Transparency"...
And over half the voters bought that line.

Yes, civil trials for non-citizen terrorists...
Drone missile trials for citizen terrorists, so long as they aren't in the US of A.
Seems logical.

Gotta love the O-man!

Aren't you the one who defended the principle of "the government shouldn't disclose things I don't need to know / which are a national security issue?"
 
I must really get to reading State of Exception soon. The reality of democracy is increasingly becoming a myth, and that should receive a lot of attention in political thought.
 
It's kinda strange to me that people are ok with that line of reasoning. The less I know about national security, the easier it is for me to sleep in the dark...
 
I have no problem with him doing this, we killed many US citizen Wehrmacht volunteers.

The problem I have with this is it is in the exact opposite vein from what he campaigned on in so many ways, and is exactly what he used to critisize Bush about. So much for all that righteous lefty angst on the left. At least some of them now see him for what he is, but so many of them still march behind him without any intention of recognizing their 2001-2008 hypocricy.
 
I have no problem with him doing this, we killed many US citizen Wehrmacht volunteers.

The problem I have with this is it is in the exact opposite vein from what he campaigned on in so many ways, and is exactly what he used to critisize Bush about. So much for all that righteous lefty angst on the left. At least some of them now see him for what he is, but so many of them still march behind him without any intention of recognizing their 2001-2008 hypocricy.

So you only care about his political campaigns, not his actions, even though you won't ever vote for him, despite you agreeing with some actions he does. :goodjob:
 
This was a military strike and not an execution. No, Obama shouldnt face trial, and there isnt a single US court that would ever convict him for killing a leader of Al Qaeda actively working to attack the USA.
If the military does it, it's OK? That's a lousy, dangerous excuse. If there was so much evidence that this ex-Pentagon dinner guest was acting illegally or engaging in war against the United States, why was he not tried in absentia? Why such secrecy?

The decision to add him to the list wasnt a secret either. Obama mentioned it months and months ago in a press release.
The decision to add him wasn't a secret. It does not necessarily mean the decision to add others will similarly be publicized.

It's kinda strange to me that people are ok with that line of reasoning. The less I know about national security, the easier it is for me to sleep in the dark...
The less you know about anything the government does, the easier it is to sleep.

I have no problem with him doing this, we killed many US citizen Wehrmacht volunteers.
You mean soldiers who were part of a nation's army with which the U.S. had been at a declared war? I don't see the comparison.
 
Questions: should President Obama be impeached for the extrajudicial execution of an American citizen? Should he face trial, like a regular peace officer, for killing someone who was not an immediate threat to himself or others? What should be done about the secret government panel that can order the extrajudicial executions of anyone?

Yes, yes, try them all for violations of US and international law.

I know there's something wrong with the world when I find myself agreeing with amadeus.
I wish he would stop showing that "lefty angst" so much.
 
If the military does it, it's OK? That's a lousy, dangerous excuse. If there was so much evidence that this ex-Pentagon dinner guest was acting illegally or engaging in war against the United States, why was he not tried in absentia? Why such secrecy?

First of all, are we in a conflict with Al Qaeda or are we not? Do we agree that Al Qaeda has violence planned for the US and attempts to kill its citizens?

If so, then killing this leader of Al Qaeda were perfectly reasonable. The point of him having US citizenship is moot, and simply not a shield of being targeted if you join the enemy.

You mean soldiers who were part of a nation's army with which the U.S. had been at a declared war? I don't see the comparison.

We have often been involved in military conflict throughout our history without an official declaration of war. That doesnt change anything.
 
First of all, are we in a conflict with Al Qaeda or are we not? Do we agree that Al Qaeda has violence planned for the US and attempts to kill its citizens?

If so, then killing this leader of Al Qaeda were perfectly reasonable. The point of him having US citizenship is moot, and simply not a shield of being targeted if you join the enemy.
Timothy McVeigh was the direct actor in terrorism, but he was still given a trial. Terrorist bombers Eric Rudolph and Ted Kaczynski were also similarly tried in U.S. courts.

We have often been involved in military conflict throughout our history without an official declaration of war. That doesnt change anything.
A long history of unconstitutional acts by the government does not forgive present or future unconstitutional acts. The government should not have carte blanche to behave in whatever way it deems reasonable with only flimsy justifications based on what we know was wrong in the past.
 
Everyone deserves a trial.
 
He sticks to his principles until he can make a political point.
Clever one-line that completely misses the point. Par for the course...

Moderator Action: Trolling. Lift your game.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

There are certainly things that should be classified, certainly... but the blatant idiocy/hypocrisy of Obama's policy here... do you actually agree with it?
 
Clever one-line that completely misses the point. Par for the course...

There are certainly things that should be classified, certainly... but the blatant idiocy/hypocrisy of Obama's policy here... do you actually agree with it?

I don't. Do you?
 
I don't. Do you?
Absolutely not.
I don't think terrorist non-citizens should get civil trials.

I'm ok with the droning, as long as there are facts attached (as there certainly are with this creep). You can be tried and found guilty in absentia...
 
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