ThinkTank
RL Addict
If we'd have to fight mounted warriors, we're in for a hard time. So I'd say ally with the Iroquois.
SGFN-05: India Stomps the World
- Thread starter TheOverseer714
- Start date
Northen Wolf
Young Hunter
Aztecs - start their golden age and blow it off on cheap units, annoy enemy with simple, cheap units.
Iros - Mounted warriors on our doorstep would rather be bad omen than good. And AI plays agri tribes usually very well.
Iros - Mounted warriors on our doorstep would rather be bad omen than good. And AI plays agri tribes usually very well.
Optional
Deity
Anaxagoras said we had nothing to offer most civs. What about waiting with an embassy until we've researched Philosophy?
It wouldn't help to buy an embassy with the Iroquois now only to discover they've got Philosophy 1 or 2 turns before we do. I expect the research pace to be fast, because Anaxagoras said we had met everybody already. I'm really surprised we've met everybody already before turn 60 without the use of Scouts or Curraghs! No isolated civs here, it seems.
Being up against Greece is not such good news. No surprise nobody's welcoming our envoys. As far as I know, the AI always refuses envoys this short after a war declaration. And Greece is stronger than us, so it'll take a bit more for them to accept peace.
I don't think we want peace with the Portuguese. They're weak, let's just profit from the war happiness. Greece is different, they're strong, have nasty Hoplites, and they're scientific. They can engineer a dogpile against us. We probably want to consider peace with them if they're interested. They make good trading partners as well.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
The Iroquois might be the best choice as allies for right now. The big thing is to avoid a dogpile with us at the bottom. I eagerly await the turn-log and some pictures to get a grasp on where we are, what our strategy will be. Portugal might possibly be a war we want, if they are small and weak, we can milk them for war happiness, with no real threat. Anyway, sounds good right now.
anaxagoras
King
OK, I have a turn. The log is long and exceedingly detailed.
I'm lame, so everything else I'm going to load as attachments. Three embassy shots, an overview, and the save.
So long, gents. See you in a week!
Spoiler :
)
Move ArcherR03 back to Bombay at least until elephants are hooked.I'm lame, so everything else I'm going to load as attachments. Three embassy shots, an overview, and the save.
So long, gents. See you in a week!
Attachments
Northen Wolf
Young Hunter
Nice log, I'm thinking, what'd it be like if you'd be forced to do same with 40 towns?
Why don't people keep on "always renegotiate deal" in preferences menu?
What means is not available? You can pick tech you get from philo, right?
Little question about settler factory, does it still work?
As I counted growth
in 2 (+4 fpt), 14 food in store, 6 to go.
Settler in 3 +5spt
30-14=16 shields invested, 14 Shields to go.
Next turn it will be
18 food in store and 21 shields.
As Delhi will grow in 1, we are still missing 9-(5+(new worked tile)) shields...
Also, if i click on middle square in Delhi, (auto manage) Ai removes one worked square and makes clown instead ??? But Delhi has 2 happy and 2 unhappy persons...
In Bangalore moving one plain(unroaded) citizen to roaded tile would get an extra gpt, I am assuming that, roaded tile was under Bombay worker until we hired geek.
This map is still ok?
Why don't people keep on "always renegotiate deal" in preferences menu?
What means is not available? You can pick tech you get from philo, right?
Little question about settler factory, does it still work?
As I counted growth
in 2 (+4 fpt), 14 food in store, 6 to go.
Settler in 3 +5spt
30-14=16 shields invested, 14 Shields to go.
Next turn it will be
18 food in store and 21 shields.
As Delhi will grow in 1, we are still missing 9-(5+(new worked tile)) shields...
Also, if i click on middle square in Delhi, (auto manage) Ai removes one worked square and makes clown instead ??? But Delhi has 2 happy and 2 unhappy persons...
In Bangalore moving one plain(unroaded) citizen to roaded tile would get an extra gpt, I am assuming that, roaded tile was under Bombay worker until we hired geek.
Spoiler for Dotmap :
This map is still ok?
TheOverseer714
Overseer
We won't be logging that thoroughly by then.
Because it locks you into 20 year deals. If you are locked into a 20 year peace deal and you declare on turn 9, boom, there goes your RoP reputation. That will have long term negative effects for the success of the game.
Please don't auto manage the cities, the governor is an idiot. Same goes for automating workers, just don't do it.
I believe you are up next, so here is the plan. Force the AIs into attacking on our terms. Get some veteran archers out to defend by attacking on our terms. Get some more workers built and get new towns hooked up. Since we are allied with Babylon(for 11 more turns) against the Portuguese, don't make peace, that would trash our reputation, which is bad this early. I will check the save for further ideas.
Optional
Deity
I've got a kind of pressing question: I'm reading in Anaxagoras' turnlog that we signed a Military Alliance against the Portuguese with Babylon (for Writing + 9 gold), yet a bit later I'm reading that we're trying to sign peace with the Portuguese (to try and get Mathematics). If we are signing peace with a civ we are allied against before the 20 turns of the alliance are over, it blows our rep, and we can not sign future alliances anymore!
I assume you simply overlooked this, Anaxagoras?
Northen Wolf, if you click on any tile a citizen is working, this citizen will always become an entertainer. If you would want a different kind of specialist, you click on the entertainer and he becomes a taxman. Another click and he's a scientist.
About Delhi: It could produce a settler in 2 turns. Take away the citizen from the floodplain where the archer is, and put him on a forest instead. Delhi will then do +3f instead of +4f, but as only 6f is needed for growth, this won't hurt growth. The only thing is: you need to put up the lux slider, because the forest doesn't have gold for happiness. I would think quicker settler production is a reason to put up the lux slider. As soon as the settler is produced, the slider can go down again.
I don't know whether you want to go on with settlers. If you do, read Thinktanks post. I still think we need more workers, as we've got a lot of unimproved tiles.
I haven't had a detailed look at everything. I would be careful with that archer next to that Portuguese warrior, I would probably take him away from there, but whatever you do, don't sign peace with the Portuguese!
I assume you simply overlooked this, Anaxagoras?
Northen Wolf, if you click on any tile a citizen is working, this citizen will always become an entertainer. If you would want a different kind of specialist, you click on the entertainer and he becomes a taxman. Another click and he's a scientist.
About Delhi: It could produce a settler in 2 turns. Take away the citizen from the floodplain where the archer is, and put him on a forest instead. Delhi will then do +3f instead of +4f, but as only 6f is needed for growth, this won't hurt growth. The only thing is: you need to put up the lux slider, because the forest doesn't have gold for happiness. I would think quicker settler production is a reason to put up the lux slider. As soon as the settler is produced, the slider can go down again.
I don't know whether you want to go on with settlers. If you do, read Thinktanks post. I still think we need more workers, as we've got a lot of unimproved tiles.
I haven't had a detailed look at everything. I would be careful with that archer next to that Portuguese warrior, I would probably take him away from there, but whatever you do, don't sign peace with the Portuguese!
Optional
Deity
Dotmap: that's an old one. I think I've found the perfect place for our next town! I didn't manage to take a screenshot, but there's a mountain 2 tiles east of Lahore. The tile just south of that mountain is perfect. It's on jungle, next to the river.
Until now this wasn't such a good spot, because it would need an expansion to work the cow, but Delhi will expand in one turn, meaning this cow will become available for a town on that spot. Please escort the settler with something!
And yes, my previous post was a bit of an X-post with Overseer. At least we seem to agree!
Until now this wasn't such a good spot, because it would need an expansion to work the cow, but Delhi will expand in one turn, meaning this cow will become available for a town on that spot. Please escort the settler with something!
And yes, my previous post was a bit of an X-post with Overseer. At least we seem to agree!
Northen Wolf
Young Hunter
If that option is unchecked, I may make peace and next turn declare?
(Always played with this option on).
I do not let governor auto manage, but in SG's I usually click those thru city center squares before I start my turn, if governor did bad job, I help him out and move citizens where they are needed.
Clicking in city square auto manages all your citizens to best tiles (in AI option). Sometimes Ai notices things I don't(for an example extra gc/breaker).
I know how luxury slider works, managed to make 5 turn settler factory in recent game, with help of luxury slider.
More towns= better, unworked tiles are dangerous yes, but getting cities before getting boxed in is as important imo. Aslong as we got enough workers to connect cities, we should be good enough. We could use atleast 4-6 cities more.
Also, I'm thinking on settling near dyes...
TheOverseer714
Overseer
If we borrow the river forest from Madras, we won't need to use the lux slider, that tile has 1 gold. Here is a updated dot map of our near west, Optionals spot is blue.
Here is the east, the twin dots could be changed depending on our spacing.
Spoiler :
Here is the east, the twin dots could be changed depending on our spacing.
Spoiler :
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Northen, there are 2 kinds of peace, which can be confusing. There is standard peace, which you start at and can stay that way, there is no penalty for breaking it. The other type comes via treaty, which lasts 20 turns. Break this type, and your RoP reputation will be severely damaged. This type of deal is listed in the diplomatic screen with your other information and has a counter. It looks like this:
Montezuma gives....................We give
(11)Peace Treaty.
6 gold per turn
..........................................(11)Peace Treaty.
..........................................Dyes
Once that counter is gone, declaring war is okay again, as long as the Dyes deal finishes with the peace deal.
Montezuma gives....................We give
(11)Peace Treaty.
6 gold per turn
..........................................(11)Peace Treaty.
..........................................Dyes
Once that counter is gone, declaring war is okay again, as long as the Dyes deal finishes with the peace deal.
Optional
Deity
Thanks for the dotmaps, Overseer! I was struggling to upload one, didn't manage. Yeah, you got me right on the blue dot. With the expansion of Delhi in one turn it'll take in the cow straight away. I think it's by far the best spot right now.
Lots of planned town locations are on plains. We need workers to improve the terrain. At the moment we've got 7 towns and 4 workers, if I've counted right. Isn't it a kind of rule of fist to have about 1 and a half worker per town? I often have more myself, but I find this a bit Spartan.
I'm not too afraid to get boxed in. By whom? All of the AI's are fighting and building wonders in their capital. None of them are Agricultural, except for the Iroquois, but they're far away.
Lots of planned town locations are on plains. We need workers to improve the terrain. At the moment we've got 7 towns and 4 workers, if I've counted right. Isn't it a kind of rule of fist to have about 1 and a half worker per town? I often have more myself, but I find this a bit Spartan.
I'm not too afraid to get boxed in. By whom? All of the AI's are fighting and building wonders in their capital. None of them are Agricultural, except for the Iroquois, but they're far away.
Northen Wolf
Young Hunter
Blue dot looks nice 
And I don't get anymore always negotiate deals - does that mean then if more than 20 turns have passed from deal, deal goes on, until one sides does not wish it anymore?
It is rule, but we are in ancient age and what do we have to lose, when building few towns more? more, older towns for us and more production.
Germans came from where? South or North? I assume south, as all other areas areas are blocked by other civs.
I'll try to play my turns today.
And I don't get anymore always negotiate deals - does that mean then if more than 20 turns have passed from deal, deal goes on, until one sides does not wish it anymore?
It is rule, but we are in ancient age and what do we have to lose, when building few towns more? more, older towns for us and more production.
Germans came from where? South or North? I assume south, as all other areas areas are blocked by other civs.
I'll try to play my turns today.
Optional
Deity
We might actually become Hammurabi's bikini babe if we put more undefended towns in. I believe both Hammurabi and us are at war with as well Greece and Portugal.
The AI knows every unit you've got in every town. I expect Hammurabi to have a couple of Bowmen covering every town. If we have less units on our towns, Portugal and Greece will come for us, and Hammurabi will be laughing. We need to have better defended towns than Hammurabi. Then they'll fight him, and that's much better for our expansion chances.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
With always renegotiate on, all deals must be renewed every 20 years, including peace. That means that if you fail to negotiate peace, you will be at war. Also, it means lux deals end if not renegotiated. That setting is definitely a 
in a SG.
in a SG.
ZzarkLinux
Engineering Programmer
lurker's comment: May I help with the "Always Renegotiate Deals" thing?
This picture I recently signed peace with Rome. Notice the (20) counter
This picture is with Aztecs. Notice the same deal, but there is no (20) counter
So, what happens when the counter reaches 0????
"Always Renegotiate" is on -> then you "auto-diplomacy-screen" that civ -> restart counter
"Always Renegotiate" is off -> then the counter disappears, but deal is still active
How is "always renegotiate" important for peace treaties???
Because "Always Renegotiate" will force you into auto-diplomacy.
And guess what: This Auto-Diplomacy only gives you two options:
- Sign peace for another 20 turns (reset that darn counter !!)
- Declare war IMMEDIATELY
This is a very bad situation !!! You can only declare war once every 20 turns, because you
auto-reset that stupid counter again and again. Whereas if you just let the counter expire,
you can declare war whenever you want (5 turns later, 8 turns later, 12 turns later)...
EDIT: I may need to review the "auto-diplomacy" screen further.
This picture I recently signed peace with Rome. Notice the (20) counter
Spoiler :
This picture is with Aztecs. Notice the same deal, but there is no (20) counter
Spoiler :
So, what happens when the counter reaches 0????
"Always Renegotiate" is on -> then you "auto-diplomacy-screen" that civ -> restart counter
"Always Renegotiate" is off -> then the counter disappears, but deal is still active
How is "always renegotiate" important for peace treaties???
Because "Always Renegotiate" will force you into auto-diplomacy.
And guess what: This Auto-Diplomacy only gives you two options:
- Sign peace for another 20 turns (reset that darn counter !!)
- Declare war IMMEDIATELY
This is a very bad situation !!! You can only declare war once every 20 turns, because you
auto-reset that stupid counter again and again. Whereas if you just let the counter expire,
you can declare war whenever you want (5 turns later, 8 turns later, 12 turns later)...
EDIT: I may need to review the "auto-diplomacy" screen further.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Thanks, Zzark, I think a picture helps tremendously! It is stuff like this that makes a game like this a learning tool for all. I am eager to see how Northen's turns came out, so we can analyze it for suggestions and learning opportunities.
Optional
Deity
Hum, I play with 'always renegotiate deals' on, but I don't need to renegotiate peace. Only when peace was part of a bigger deal, like an alliance against somebody or the AI giving me a lux. Then the AI in question will knock on my door after 20 turn and ask if peace on its own is good enough. And I'm not sure whether a counter will then start again. I think not actually. I haven't been caught out yet, like wanting to declare war, but seeing that some counter was going. I look out for that kind of thing.
Military Alliances I have to renegotiate after 20 turns. What's going on with 'always renegotiate deals' off, actually?
I'm unsure as to what the real difference between having that setting on or off is. I've seen at least GmaHarriet maintain that it's not so good to have it on, but I don't remember the details.
I'll keep it off in SG's anyway, as that seems the concensus.
Military Alliances I have to renegotiate after 20 turns. What's going on with 'always renegotiate deals' off, actually?
I'm unsure as to what the real difference between having that setting on or off is. I've seen at least GmaHarriet maintain that it's not so good to have it on, but I don't remember the details.
I'll keep it off in SG's anyway, as that seems the concensus.
Northen Wolf
Young Hunter
If always "renegotiate deals" is "on" and Peace treaty is signed, yes it lasts for 20 turns, after that Pops up civilization whom you made peace deal with, where in their usual offer is 'Peace treaty', Never have seen them asking anything from me. After you accept peace treaty, counter is reset, but not onto 20 turns, it looks just like Aztecs in ZzarkLinux #2.
If I click accept peace treaty after 20 turns is over, counter DOES NOT reset, it is same as picture #2 of Aztecs. YOU don't have to wait 20 turns to declare again.
It is simple to test, just run game with option on, beat up enemy, sign peace, wait 20 turns, accept peace, and take a look at diplo. screen.
If I click accept peace treaty after 20 turns is over, counter DOES NOT reset, it is same as picture #2 of Aztecs. YOU don't have to wait 20 turns to declare again.
It is simple to test, just run game with option on, beat up enemy, sign peace, wait 20 turns, accept peace, and take a look at diplo. screen.
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