SGFN-05: India Stomps the World

Northen Wolf · Jun 30, 2008

OK, I've reached point wherein I'd like comments (just turn 4) Have not began micromanagement yet, but I don't want to do any fatal mistakes:

Spoiler turnlog :

Spoiler VERY BAD QUALITY picture :

Sorry for bad quality picture, only way I can upload (without server error).

I could trade math+gold for philo make a trading round with philo/math and earn few gc...
I'm more worried about attack and Greece hoplite..

TheOverseer714 · Jun 30, 2008

I would say go ahead and do the Philosophy for Math trade, then we will know how soon the SoZ completes. We really need some mobile attackers to start whittling away at the greek inflow. If we get horses hooked up soon, Bombay can start building horsemen, which at least can retreat if losing. That hoplite is only a danger due to possible pillaging, so the Ivory needs an archer or spear parked there. Looks good so far just remember to make the greeks attack our people across rivers, up hills/mountains or against fortified units. I'm not overly scared of them yet. When I see swords or horses, then I'll start worrying. Just keep at it, play your best.

Optional · Jun 30, 2008

I think you've done a couple of excellent trade rounds, Northen Wolf. It was good to sell Horseback Riding to those civs that hadn't got it yet and get some money for it.
It also turned out to be very good to not buy Maths first thing. I saw you could buy it for Philo + 56 gold from the Iroquois earlier on. Now you can get it from them for Philo and they're willing to pay all the gold they've got to it! Yes, it's best to make that deal now. Any moment some civ will have Philo as well, meaning that the value of it will drop. We were lucky that a few more civs got Maths, but nobody got Philo. That could easily have gone the other way round.
Maybe you can by an embassy with the Aztecs. They're in the lead, they're strong, and maybe you can get them into an alliance against the Germans for Philosophy.
Overseer, could you confirm we know all the civs? With ourselves included I'm counting 8 civs. Is that it? If we really know everyone, why are we continueing to send units out for exploration, when they're needed at home for defense and MP?
Yes, I think the Hoplite will be after the Ivory; we need a unit on top of that.
We could consider building a few Spearmen. Our opponents the Greek and the Portuguese are coming with mainly Warriors. We lost an Archer to a Warrior, the Archer was defending. If we're defending against Warriors, Spearmen are better.

Northen Wolf, great to see this inbetween shot. I think a few of us are away for a wee spell. Anaxagoras is probably still away, and Jorgo is going away for 5-7 days.

TheOverseer714 · Jun 30, 2008

Standard map has 8 civs, so we know everyone. I need to track down the order of contact, so we know who to kill next.

Northen Wolf · Jul 1, 2008

I don't understand why you guys let enemy attack, all we have are archers they have 2 offense 1 defense, I moved 2 archers to either of side of river to give us chance to attack. About Hoplite, I am afraid to start golden age of Greece = more units towards us. Then again wasting golden age so early in age could mean Greece will not become major power, that it usually is.

Optional · Jul 1, 2008

With only a couple of Archers available there's not much to be gained by attacking. We're not likely to take towns with this military. I would not have put that Archer right next to Konigsberg, you're not gonna take Konigsberg with 1 Archer, you only risk losing it.
Attacking stray units in the open field with 1 move units like Archers is not such a good idea. Archers can not retreat after an attack, so they're vulnerable to a counter attack. Horses can at least retreat, but as there isn't too much to be gained by war just now, I would always avoid battles if I can, and save my units for the serious stuff. The serious stuff is taking towns.
You'll see the AI slug it out in the open field a lot. They can lose hoards of units, without ever attacking a town. That's not what we want to do.

I wouldn't try and attack that Hoplite. It's got a defense value of three. It's not escorting a stack of Archers, so the only real danger is that it will pillage a resource. Then we can best try and block his way. I think the Hoplite was escorting 1 Warrior? The Warrior will attack if he's got a decent chance. If we can not attack him because he's escorted by a Hoplite, then we can best defend.
We would stand a better chance of attacking Hoplites if we had some Catapults; redline with Catapults, then attack. If you trade for Maths we can build Catapults.

Northen Wolf · Jul 1, 2008

SHORT OVERVIEW OF MY TURNS:
We learned CoL, got SGL for that.
We crushed G(r)eeks initial rush (including Hoplite), earning us elite archer.
We got 2 embassies.
We found Germany (at least) 3 out of 6 towns(CrpMapStat).

We destroyed 2 barb camps.
We traded/sold philo around.
Founded one new town Kolhapur onto blue dot.

We got horses into empire and all but Kolhapur connected with trade Network.
We learned Math and started SoZ.
We now got 8 workers per 8 cities, 1 worker per city (from ~0.6).
We built 2 catapults. Few archers.

In Vaults we got 282 gold.
Not bad IMO.

I'm afraid that Germans with their 3 archers will say hi to our Lahore soon, but unlike us won't leave peacefully.
Turnlog + pictures coming soon

Ansar · Jul 1, 2008

lurker's comment: SGL?! I see the Pyramids in the near future?

Northen Wolf · Jul 1, 2008

Spoiler for turnlog :

I wanted to do accurate turnlog and not make many mistakes, second time I play emperor game. Wanted to be careful, sorry for delay.

TheOverseer714 · Jul 1, 2008

Pyramids, I believe to be the best investment of an SGL. Funny how often India gets them, seeing that it isn't a sci tribe. Anyway, I look forward to the turn-log, any pictures, and the save. Then I can post the updated roster. :thumbsup:

Northen, sounds like a solid turn-set.

P.S. Can you get the save posted?

Northen Wolf · Jul 1, 2008

@Overseer
Look above for Turnlog Xpost

unable to upload pictures at night, will try tmrw

I'm lucky that I managed to upload save. (Slow internet, pleasure for living in woods :mad:

)

TheOverseer714 · Jul 1, 2008

Slow internet, I feel your pain. That's why I got something faster, I now use an aircard(cell-phone based broadband). It ain't roadrunner, but it sure beats dialup. Nice to live in the country, but lack of infrastructure sucks.

ThinkTank · Jul 1, 2008

Northen Wolf said:
I wanted to do accurate turnlog and not make many mistakes, second time I play emperor game. Wanted to be careful, sorry for delay.

Rather be safe then sorry, that's fine. Well done.

The SGL, I'd say Pyramids anytime.

Optional · Jul 1, 2008

Compared to these turnlogs my turnlog was a snippet!

Anyway, just a quick response to a couple of Northen Wolf's remarks:

You said there was a veteran Spearman defending Konigsberg. The game only shows you the top defending unit. That's why our Archer was at risk. There could well have been an German Archer stationed in Konigsberg, and then our Archer would have been attacked.

You said we need to know more of the map. I'm afraid we're not balancing this need with other needs. We seem to be scouting for the sake of scouting.
In my view scouting is mainly good for:
* Terrain and resource knowledge; locating good city spots.
* Contacts.
Both needs seem to be sufficiently fulfilled already. We know everybody, and we know enough of our immediate surroundings to identify good city spots. What we don't know are places where we wouldn't get a settler to anyway.
Right now we're scouting with 2 Archers and 1 Warrior. That's overkill. 1 Warrior would have done. Those Archers would have been better defending Lahore. They're too good units to go scouting with. They will sack the odd Barbarian camp, but that's just peanuts. And if the AI sacks them, we might get the loot anyway through tech trading.
I also scouted with more units on the lower levels. It was at Emperor level that I noticed I was better off showing more restraint. There is a lot more AI around on this level. Now I scout with a couple of units in the very beginning, to get to know my immediate surroundings, but after that, when I've got a couple of towns in, it's often just 1 single Warrior exploring. The rest stays at home. They're even more needed at home in a war game like this.

I must sound like a broken record by now, but I'll say again that our expansion is at the moment limited by what our military can defend.

We might want to get some team input before we continue. I haven't looked at everything in detail, but I noticed Greece is willing to sign peace. That might be something to consider, if they're still at war with Babylon they will use their units on Hammurabi instead.
Brahmagupta is an interesting name for a SGL. I know a Brazilian beer called Brahma. Would beer be good for the brain cells after all?

TheOverseer714 · Jul 1, 2008

I have been slacking on keeping the roster up to date, so here it is:

1: TheOverseer714=> warming up
2: Optional=> waiting
3: ThinkTank=> waiting longer
4: Jorgo Mono=> sometime soon
5: Anaxagoras=> sometime later this month
6: Northen Wolf=> just played
7: Rodent=> up
8: akk47=> on deck

I have info that Rodent is swamped, but if he can get it before friday, we will wait. Has akk47 posted lately? If he isn't handy, that puts me up, but I am super swamped, I have 6 turns left in CBob04, a turnset in Rod01, and one in TT01 to go before I can play. So Rodent is currently up.

Northen Wolf · Jul 1, 2008

@Optional
Maybe You are right above emperor and scouting, but IMO it is important to know land before it settled by AIs. Sure, they(scouts) are archers but they are rArchers.

IMO that land knowladge is needed for attacking enemy. ALso finding Germans is still important, if we know where their cities are it is easier to plan attacks(take down resources/luxury to weaken empires overall state).

EDIT:

Spoiler Main empire :

Spoiler Empire Zoomed out :

Spoiler techno city :

Spoiler trondheim :

Northen Wolf · Jul 2, 2008

Uploaded pictures.

barbslinger · Jul 2, 2008

whats up with the food boxes? Do you have accel production on?

TheOverseer714 · Jul 2, 2008

That's the AI bonus at Emperor level, they have a 20% food and production bonus over us, IIRC. Basically, the AI gets the equivalent of accelerated production.

Edit: Corrected the percentage that the AI has, 40% is Deity, I believe.

Northen Wolf · Jul 2, 2008

Emperor: AI Cost Factor: .8 maybe? (dunno, food boxes change?)

SGFN-05: India Stomps the World

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