TheOverseer714
Overseer
Not building the Pyramids ourselves might mean not pillaging Amsterdam and let the Dutch build them for us, then capturing them. I say move the spear south until we see a border or lands end, hen come back north.
SGFN-08: Random AWM Succession Game
- Thread starter TheOverseer714
- Start date
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment:
Something of a long shot, I think - they don't even have Masonry yet; And if you leave them as a OCC, they will only build units.
Lurker's comment:
Err...
Spoiler :
Also F4 diplomacy gives it. Sorry, I'm not trying to prove someone was wrong here, but it would affect your views on what strategy to take, so I think you're better off with the right info.
Oops. Either I'm getting old, or I opened the previous .sav by mistake...
Regarding the "capture the GLib" strategy: I'm not saying we stop our own research while waiting for the GLib. My idea is to finish the AA and then beeline to Military Tradition. With Cavs we can go quite a while (until the AIs get Infantry). By the time we get to MT, some of the AIs should have gotten some of the upper half techs, and we then gain these via the GLib.
Buce has a point there that on Monarch with many wars going on the AI won't research that fast. So I guess we should stop scouting now and just let the AIs do some peaceful research.
So what would that mean for our research? My proposal: do Writing -> Philosophy now and then pick one of the expensive techs (Lit, Map Making, CoL?). Then we do Masonry and take the Pyramids after all...
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment:
There is another alternative to the choices mentioned, though some may see it as exploitative.
You could build the GLib in a frontier town near the Dutch, reduce them to a 1CC, then at a later stage (before Education) allow it to be captured by them, then retake it at a convenient time.
There is another alternative to the choices mentioned, though some may see it as exploitative.
You could build the GLib in a frontier town near the Dutch, reduce them to a 1CC, then at a later stage (before Education) allow it to be captured by them, then retake it at a convenient time.
Lurker's comment:
If you are not on an island or a small continent, then bypassing Knights is going to slow you down in terms of defense and conquest. Knight armies are very strong, especially with 4 units.
If it is not an island map, I would not exepct to face infantry at all. I barely saw rifles in the run I played the other day and it was a conquest win. I had infantry, but they did not.
If you are not on an island or a small continent, then bypassing Knights is going to slow you down in terms of defense and conquest. Knight armies are very strong, especially with 4 units.
If it is not an island map, I would not exepct to face infantry at all. I barely saw rifles in the run I played the other day and it was a conquest win. I had infantry, but they did not.
Sparthage
Fighting Tyranny
We don't have Iron, and we don't know about horses. Until we know if we have horses, we should avoid deciding our MidA tech tree strategy. Also, the civilization that builds GLib could be halfway around the globe. That would make capturing it quite difficult.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
We are playing AW, so keeping an SGL around too long is a bad idea. With no Iron handy, we'll need Archer or Horse armies to avoid horrendous losses. We should use it soon, before we get elites being wasted, since any elite is a terrible thing to waste. The GLib was my second choice, but we are on the path that way anyway, so lets get an idea of what is our consensus. Right now, it's like herding cats trying to get a consensus on anything. If we dither any more in game, we'll lose Philosophy and render free tech a moot point. Meanwhile, Splunge has 4 hours to get it or be skipped and Goodsmell has 16 hours after that.
lurker's comment: I, for one, have become thoroughly lost in who wants which wonder when. Because I doubt that I'm the only one who feels this way, I'd like to take a quick vote. Here are the votes that I can see right now. If you need to change the way I've cast your vote, or if the spot next to your name is blank, quote this post and fill in your vote.
1: TheOverseer714=> GLib, but would have liked the Pyramids
2: Gamezrule=> Pyramids, by switching to Masonry right now
3: Sparthage=>
4: DWetzel=> GLib
5: Splunge=>
6: Goodsmell=>
7: Lanzelot=> Pyramids, but after grabbing Philo & (hopefully) the free tech
1: TheOverseer714=> GLib, but would have liked the Pyramids
2: Gamezrule=> Pyramids, by switching to Masonry right now
3: Sparthage=>
4: DWetzel=> GLib
5: Splunge=>
6: Goodsmell=>
7: Lanzelot=> Pyramids, but after grabbing Philo & (hopefully) the free tech
Agree, but change it to switch to Masonry after we finish Pottery. We have put too many beakers into Pottery.
EDIT: Actually don't change anything, since all pottery gets you are granaries.
Sparthage
Fighting Tyranny
At this point I'd prefer the GLib, but since we're down Writing to the Dutch, the Pyramids could be useful.
lurker's comment: Ok. That puts us at:
Hellfiredoom
Warlord
Lurker's unsolicited comment: 
You can always hand build granaries, but the GL gives you a unique advantage which is especially useful in AW games where you have to research all techs yourself. IMO the possible loss of MGLs holding onto your current one until you research Lit is worth it (I'm guessing at this point in the game the chance of getting a MGL is slim anyway).
You can always hand build granaries, but the GL gives you a unique advantage which is especially useful in AW games where you have to research all techs yourself. IMO the possible loss of MGLs holding onto your current one until you research Lit is worth it (I'm guessing at this point in the game the chance of getting a MGL is slim anyway).
TheOverseer714
Overseer
1: TheOverseer714=> on deck
2: Gamezrule=> warming up
3: Sparthage=> Hanging out at the agora
4: DWetzel=> just played
5: Splunge=> Skipped
6: Goodsmell=> Skipped, Happy Birthday!
7: Lanzelot=> up
2: Gamezrule=> warming up
3: Sparthage=> Hanging out at the agora
4: DWetzel=> just played
5: Splunge=> Skipped
6: Goodsmell=> Skipped, Happy Birthday!
7: Lanzelot=> up
Oops, I'm up already, what a surprise... 
But anyway, vacation is over, so I should have time for civ again...
I can post a plan tomorrow and then play after the rest had time to discuss it.
Lanzelot
But anyway, vacation is over, so I should have time for civ again...
I can post a plan tomorrow and then play after the rest had time to discuss it.
Lanzelot
Research
I guess the majority votes for the GLib now? In that case I will start on Writing next turn. I expect it will take us around 15 turns, so the Overseer will finish it and start Philo.
However, I agree with vmxa that the GLib will be next to worthless for us, if all AIs will be at constant war. Therefore I suggest to stop exploring now and let the AIs develop and research in peace. Then later, when we finally meet them, we can perhaps hope for a decent tech boost.
(But still I think now the Pyramids are the better choice, because it does indeed look like we are on a bigger landmass with at least one more AI. (No way the Dutch can have researched all these techs alone!) So if anyone changes his mind regarding which wonder to choose, please let us know before it's too late! I guess this is what Overseer meant by "herding cats"...
How can we expect to arrive at a definite decision, if even the experienced players constantly change their minds... But this is how it works in practice. The situation (and the available information) isn't always clearcut and easy, so a lot of early strategic thinking is still speculation. The key is to remain flexible until it becomes clear what the best option is. In the current game we still have all options. The little digression to Philo is ok, as we won't need other granaries besides Leipzig in the near future. And if we had done Masonry first, the chances of winning the race to Philo would certainly have been diminished too much.)
Infrastructure
I will switch Leipzig to a granary immediately (after Pottery is done). With 8 shields in the box and 20 coming from two chops, we can finish it in 7 turns, which means I can already take the factory online.
Berlin will build another archer after this one.
War
After the two archers from Berlin are finished, I will march 4 archers south to Rotterdam. The spearman currently at Amsterdam will walk back to Rotterdam as well, so it can take over the role of escort for these archers. When Overseer takes over, this army should be two tiles from Rotterdam, so he will then have the honor of conquering our first town!
I chose Rotterdam instead of Utrecht, because it will be immediately valuable for us.
Here is also an updated dotmap. I moved NC 6 and NC 7 to account for the newly discovered whale and BG tiles, but did not move the southern towns, because I think they are better this way (especially with Rotterdam taking into the equation). I also indicated two rings in my dotmap, which will show you the usefulness of the current arrangement: the pink ring shows the core with Berlin as capital, which is so lala, not great, but ok for the current situation. The red ring then shows the "minor core" after Berlin has been disbanded and NC 2 built the FP. I think this is the optimum that can be achieved in the given situation.
Lanzelot
I guess the majority votes for the GLib now? In that case I will start on Writing next turn. I expect it will take us around 15 turns, so the Overseer will finish it and start Philo.
However, I agree with vmxa that the GLib will be next to worthless for us, if all AIs will be at constant war. Therefore I suggest to stop exploring now and let the AIs develop and research in peace. Then later, when we finally meet them, we can perhaps hope for a decent tech boost.
(But still I think now the Pyramids are the better choice, because it does indeed look like we are on a bigger landmass with at least one more AI. (No way the Dutch can have researched all these techs alone!) So if anyone changes his mind regarding which wonder to choose, please let us know before it's too late! I guess this is what Overseer meant by "herding cats"...
How can we expect to arrive at a definite decision, if even the experienced players constantly change their minds... But this is how it works in practice. The situation (and the available information) isn't always clearcut and easy, so a lot of early strategic thinking is still speculation. The key is to remain flexible until it becomes clear what the best option is. In the current game we still have all options. The little digression to Philo is ok, as we won't need other granaries besides Leipzig in the near future. And if we had done Masonry first, the chances of winning the race to Philo would certainly have been diminished too much.)Infrastructure
I will switch Leipzig to a granary immediately (after Pottery is done). With 8 shields in the box and 20 coming from two chops, we can finish it in 7 turns, which means I can already take the factory online.
Berlin will build another archer after this one.
War
After the two archers from Berlin are finished, I will march 4 archers south to Rotterdam. The spearman currently at Amsterdam will walk back to Rotterdam as well, so it can take over the role of escort for these archers. When Overseer takes over, this army should be two tiles from Rotterdam, so he will then have the honor of conquering our first town!
I chose Rotterdam instead of Utrecht, because it will be immediately valuable for us.
Here is also an updated dotmap. I moved NC 6 and NC 7 to account for the newly discovered whale and BG tiles, but did not move the southern towns, because I think they are better this way (especially with Rotterdam taking into the equation). I also indicated two rings in my dotmap, which will show you the usefulness of the current arrangement: the pink ring shows the core with Berlin as capital, which is so lala, not great, but ok for the current situation. The red ring then shows the "minor core" after Berlin has been disbanded and NC 2 built the FP. I think this is the optimum that can be achieved in the given situation.
Lanzelot
Sparthage
Fighting Tyranny
I'm fairly certain that we aren't tech trading on contact, just declaring war.
Overseer, this is your chance: if you switch, the "Pyramids' faction" will have the majority... I strongly favor Pyramids now that I've looked at the map south of Amsterdam and also taking vmxa's experience into account.
And also: even with the GLib we will need to continue research at full speed for a while, because we can't rely on the AI to come up with Monarchy or Republic any time soon. So the GLib will not immediately be useful. And with a bit of luck we can still capture it later and get something out of it.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Remember that the FP is almost useless in Conquests, so if we jump our palace to nicer digs, that will be our new core and the FP town will be the only productive city left in the old core.
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