SGFN-08: Random AWM Succession Game

[Lanzelot]

Well, looks like my crazy idea of jumping the palace is now picking up speed after all...

But at the moment we have different problems...

Spoiler :

1. 1725BC
Move worker to forest N-NE of Leipzig. Pillage Dutch mine hill.

2. 1720BC
Finish Pottery, start Writing.
Berlin: archer -> settler. (This is not good, but I think with -4gpt unit upkeep it will be our ruin, if I continue building units.
Leipzig switches to granary.

3. 1675BC
Berlin grows. A Dutch warrior/archer pair appears S-SW of our mountain outlook. Move the two archers from Berlin to the mining worker on the wheat tile in order to great them next turn.
Pillage second wine hill.

4. 1650BC
Leipzig grows. Switch worked forest to wheat, so that we have 4 turn growth now!
Need to reduce science to 60%, as the treasury is nearly empty.
First archer attacks Dutch archer on grassland -- and dies!! Second archer finishes the job. Move spear from Leipzig onto archer as cover against the warrior.
Good thing is: can raise science to 70% now and go at 0gpt.
IBT: An archer out of Amsterdam attacks our pillaging spear and perishes.

5. 1625BC
Regrouping around Leipzig.
Pillage last Dutch wine; they will go thirsty from now on...
IBT: Dutch call me and offer peace, if we give them Iron Working. No thanks...

6. 1600BC
Healed archer now kills the remaining warrior near Leipzig.
Mine on the wheat tile finishes and worker moves to forest W of Leipzig. The other worker meanwhile finished his forest and moves back 1N of Leipzig. (No time for roading.)
For the next few turns our "Dutch spear" moves out of Dutch territory, so it can heal.

7. 1575BC
Worker starts chopping, the other one moves onto the forest as well.

8. 1550BC
Berlin: settler -> archer.
Settler moves to NC2 location. (Moving to NC1 would take 3 turns and we are currently at -4gpt again. Another settler from Leipzig can later reach NC1 in one turn, so that'll be faster.)
Leipzig grows, granary now due in 4 turns, but with the last remaining chop it will finish in 2. (This took longer than expected.)

9. 1525BC
Found Hamburg, it starts on a barracks.
No more unit upkeep! Research can now be set to 90%, while making +1gpt.

10. 1500BC
Leipzig finishes the granary and starts a worker.

Now I realize our big big problem: thanks to not being on the river, there is no 4-turner in Leipzig!!! (Why, oh why didn't you build it on the river...)
Here is the reason: one shield is lost due to corruption. So at size 4 we make only 5 shields: city center (1), mined wheat (1), two mined BG (4), corruption (-1). This is one shield short for the cycle "4 -> 5 -> (6, fallback to 4)".
The cycle at one size larger ("5 -> 6 -> (7, fallback to 5)") would have enough shields, but we can't temporarily grow to size 7 (unless we build an aqueduct)!

Please double-check my calculation, but I don't see any solution to this problem (other than building an aqueduct).
Fortunately we can build 2-turn workers at size 4 as well as at size 5. And fortunately we could do the following: use Leipzig as "5-turner" (which will waste a lot of food) and as worker pump for the moment and work on setting up Hamburg as a 4-turner instead. This is possible, as Hamburg is on the river and has access to both wheats and one BG (after building NC5). Build will require a lot of mining and irrigating and another granary.

Handover notes:
I think we need a couple of workers now to get more of the river grasslands around Berlin and some of the plains for Hamburg improved. Also begin roading towards NC1 and NC5 (if we want Hamburg as a 4-turner).
Two archers are currently coming for our "Dutch spear". It is now completely healed again and can fortify on a mountain next turn to wait for the archers.

Writing is currently at 9 turns, but with Berlin growing back (and more roads being added) it can probably be done in 7.

 

[Lanzelot]

PS: forget it, I found the solution!
We need NC1 asap, so that we can use the third BG tile. Then we can run an "out-of-sync" cycle at size 4.5 - 6.5 for the following shield production:

4:  5
5:  7
5:  7
6:  8
_____
   27 + 4 on growth = 31!

(This will work, even if we lose a second shield of the 9 on growth to size 6!)

 

[TheOverseer714]

Ouch, no 4-turner for a long time. There may be a way to make the first 3 turns be less food wasteful in Leipzig by running +3 food for 2 turns then +4 the next 3, giving us 1 turn extra to accumulate shields. I will play with the MMing to check it for usefulness.

 

[DWetzel]

I wonder out loud without doing any math if it would work somehow to go to two irrigated wheats, assuming the 6th shield is the corrupt one, and go 6 + 4 + 6 + 4 fpt with enough production on the last two turns to make it up? I'm too tired to think about it at the moment. Probably doesn't work anyway.

Edit: Of course, the third BG would do the job nicely. We'll have to be careful to not let NC1 use the extra BG too much, but it doesn't need to grow fast anyway.

 

[Aabraxan]

lurker's comment: Given that this AW and that you're militaristic, I would suggest using an MGL for the new palace, rather than abandoning Berlin. Then you will know for certain where the new capital will be.

 

[Sparthage]

lurker's comment: Given that this AW and that you're militaristic, I would suggest using an MGL for the new palace, rather than abandoning Berlin. Then you will know for certain where the new capital will be.

As long as we use our first MGL for an army, I'm all for that strategy.

 

[GamezRule]

As long as we use our first MGL for an army, I'm all for that strategy.

This wouldn't be for a loong time down the road, we will have had plenty of MGL's by then. (if we can ever figure out what to do with that SGL)

 

[Aabraxan]

lurker's comment: I entirely agree that the first, for maybe the first 2 or 3, MGLs should become armies.

 

[Lanzelot]

Ok, everything clear how to get the 4-turner running asap? Otherwise I can post some instructions later.

 

[GamezRule]

I can read words better than numbers, so some instructions would be nice.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Yeah, running a regular 4 turner is hard enough, so so explicit instructions would be wonderful. Depending on my workload, I can start tomorrow night.

 

[Optional]

Lurker's comment:
At the moment Leipzig seems to do fine as a 2-turn worker factory, I'm assuming corruption isn't taking away 1 of the 2 extra shields it gets upon growth? I hope not. If that would happen, you can also say goodbye to your 4-turner.

A few workers are nice for now, because you'll still need quite a few tile improvements for a 4-turner. Here is what's needed for the moment:

Spoiler :

 

[Lanzelot]

I'm assuming corruption isn't taking away 1 of the 2 extra shields it gets upon growth? I hope not.

No, I already checked that by temporarily assigning the citizen currently working on the irrigated wheat to a forest:

As you can see, Leipzig would make 6 shields on growth, enough for 2-turn workers.

So here is now, how to get the 4-turner up and running:

1. Preparation Phase (9 turns)
Optional already showed what to do. Here is how to do it.

1.1 Production in Leipzig

1. 2 workers (4 turns)
2. Now we start a settler. By that time we should have 5 shields at size 4, and the settler will take 5 turns (if I counted correctly...)
3. After finishing this first settler, Leipzig will be at size 4 with the 5 food already collected, the necessary mines for size 4 ready, so we can start the second phase (see below).

Total: 9 turns.

1.2 Worker management

• The two workers finish the road, they are currently doing (2 turns)
• After that they are joined by the fresh worker from Leipzig to mine the BG in 2 turns (just in time for Leipzig to start on the settler)
• Now 2 workers start mining the grassland W of Leipzig (3 turns), while the third one moves on the BG towards the silk. The fresh worker can turn to Hamburg and start improving there.
• The worker near the silks starts a road (3 turns), while the other two still have 2 turns left on the mine.
• When the two finish the mine, they move on the BG by the silks as well (unfortunately this loses a turn)
• Next turn the road finishes, and all three of them do a mine in 2 turns.

Total: 10 turns.

On turn 9 the fresh settler from Leipzig moves to NC1 (using the road that got finished at turn 8), and on turn 10 it founds a city that will make the last BG available to Leipzig. Meanwhile (on turn 9) Leipzig has already started the

2. Operation Phase

1. Turn 1: Leipzig starts like this (I added a shield, because the BG tile will already be mined):
   
   
   
   
2. Turn 2: In the interturn Leipzig grows and picks up the forest for two extra shields:
   
   
   
   We found NC1 and then re-assign the forest to the new BG tile (as indicated by the red arrow). Make sure to increase lux to prevent riot in Leipzig!
   
3. Turn 3: No micro-management necessary. Leipzig looks like this:
   
   
   
   
4. Turn 4: In the interturn Leipzig has grown again, so we need to re-assign the forest to the mined grassland. (Red arrow)
   
   
   
   When we now end the turn, Leipzig spits out the settler, falls back to size 4, but collects the first 5 food again, so we are back at "Turn 1".
   Repeat ad infinitum.

Two more comments:

• This assumes that we will get the second corrupted shield at a total of 10 shields (reducing 10 to 8). If we get the second corruption already at a total of 9 (reducing 9 to 7), then it won't work... However, as we had the first corruption at total 5 shields, I think the second will come at 10.
• Please everyone make sure the governor settings for Leipzig have "emphasize production" set, otherwise it won't pick up the forest on growth and the entire scheme won't work!

 

[Hellfiredoom]

The post by Lanzelot should be stickied... it's a clinic on building a SF. Well done!

 

[TheOverseer714]

Nice work, guys!

 

[TheOverseer714]

I have played, pretty much an uneventful set. The settler factory should be ready to go, I may have done stuff differently, but the results are the same. I decided to fast track the Silks because we need research and upping the luxes to help the settler factory will really put a crimp on it. With silks, we'll be at 10% luxury 3 turns rather than 10% for 2 turns and 20-30% 3 more. Anyway here is my turnlog:

Spoiler :

Pre-Flight: CivAssist 2, Word running. Open the save, look things over.
Looks good, nothing to do.

Civilian units:
Workers 2
SGL 1

Military units:

Warrior 1
Archers 2
Spears 5

Unit Support:
Total Units: 11
Allowed Units: 12
Support Cost: 0 gpt

Hit Enter=>

IBT: 2 Dutch Archers turn north, newly produced Archer out of The Hague threatens our ScoutSpear.

Turn 1, 1475 BC: Fortify ScoutSpear, I like the odds.

IBT: Dutch Archer heads north. Chicken!
Berlin Archer=>Archer.
Leipzig Worker=>Worker. Treasury Warning.

Turn 2, 1450 BC: Begin Mining on grass tile with all workers.
Have to raise tech slider to not go broke.

IBT: Dutch Archer continues north.

Turn 3, 1425 BC: Move ScoutSpear off the mountain.

IBT: Dutch Archer gives chase to ScoutSpear.
Leipzig Worker=>Settler.
Treasury Warning.

Turn 4, 1400 BC: we are at -1 gpt with 3 gold, Writing in 5.
Workers move.

IBT: Dutch Archer gives chase to ScoutSpear.

Turn 5, 1375 BC: nada

IBT: Berlin Archer=>Wealth.
Treasury Warning. This sucks, cause I need lux slider too.

Turn 6, 1350 BC: Adjust sliders to 10% lux, 60% science.
Writing in 4 now.

IBT: nada

Turn 7, 1325 BC: Worker moves, not sure what was what, hope I have it correct.

IBT: Leipzig Settler =>Settler.
Berlin Wealth=>Spearman.

Turn 8, 1300 BC: nada

IBT: nada

Turn 9, 1275 BC: Settler in position.
Move 3 Workers to silks, we need the lux hooked up to help avoid the lux slider while we are strapped for cash.

IBT: Writing=>Philosophy, 10 turns at 90%.

Turn 10, 1250 BC: Konigsberg settled, working the roaded BG, set to wealth until we decide what to build there.
Our ScoutSpear, has not proved whether we are on an island yet, but has found more land. I think we need to know for sure.

Non-Combat
Workers 4
SGL 1

Military units:
Warrior 1
Archers 5
Spears 5

Unit Support:
Total Units: 15
Allowed Units: 16
Support Cost: 0 gpt


Contacts
Dutch

Cities
Berlin, size 3, grows in 3, Spear in 3 turns
Leipzig, size 4, grows in 2, Settler in 5 turns.
Hamburg, size 2, grows in 9, Barracks in 9 turns.
Konigsberg, size 1, grows in 10, Wealth until a build is decided.

Sliders
9/1/0, Philosophy in 10 turns at 1 gpt, 6 in the bank.

I will get some pictures up soon.
The save:

 

[DWetzel]

Looks good. I assume everyone understands how the settler factory works. (If you don't, ASK!!!!).

Random thoughts:

I can't think of any reason that Konigsberg should consider anything other than a barracks right now. We really need more archers, it's about at the point where we will need to make a big run at the Dutch in order to have room to expand (and yes, I realize we have two or three spots behind the lines for settlers, but it'll take that long to really let the stack build up anyway).

Once the workers are done around Konigsberg (roading silks, mining the BG), they should road the tile 2E of Konigsberg; our next city should go on the coastal tile where it will pick up both whales on expansion. I was going to suggest a library prebuild to get the expansion for the whales, but then I realized that makes a spiffy spot for a Great Library to solve that problem. So I'd just build it and get a curragh or two done fast (if we work a forest, it should get done before we have Lit). IMO, we actually want a second contact, ideally from another continent, so that we can get the Great Library doing its thing.

Question: If we're going to take Literature with the free tech, why don't we just research Literature? I think we may be taking an unnecessary gamble in going for Philo; if we don't get it that's another bunch of turns with no Great Library. I'm not actually worried about losing TGL, but it would be nice to get it out of the way (and get our SGL out of the way so we can get military leaders, and also to get the culture expansion for two whales without blowing a bunch of shields into a library).

I'm not 100% sold on not gambling for Philo, but it seems like we could be doing some unnecessary research, and, since we're flat broke right now, the sooner we can shut off research the better. I guess it comes down to how likely we are to actually be the first ones to Philo--and at exactly 1000 BC, I think we're in the "slightly more likely than not" category. If I was setting a betting line I think I'd be at about 3:2 in favor. I'm not sure I like those odds.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker's comment:

I just wonder, if you guys didn't miss out on an easier path. I loaded the start 3000BC and drop the research a click or two as IW is not big rush, not going to be able to get Iron for some time, even if it was near.

You can see borders and have a very good idea that you are have at least a narrow peninsula. I switched the settler to an archer and set out to kill. A lone warrior came out from the back and attacked the warrior I was returning to met the archer.

It died. I sent out the archer/warrior and the new archer. Started a settler I think, then archer. The three razed two towns losing 1 archer and warrior, gained elite.

Boom Dutch lost Amsterdam and I have another archer coming and the elite will heal.
I also killed a settler/spear, after the first town, so two slaves. Going for Mason for walls, in case it is a continent.

Dutch are toast now and the way is paved to expand some, with no incoming.

 

[DWetzel]

I think that you got exceptionally lucky to wipe out two towns with two archers and one warrior.

 

[Sparthage]

Agreed. My luck with the RNG gods is something like this: . I'm the tank is that equation .