SGFN-08: Random AWM Succession Game

[Sparthage]

In one hour, this thread had 9 posts (not including this one).

 

[Aabraxan]

You win, I am not a speaker of German.

EDIT: What makes you say I used Wikipedia.

If I said you used Wikipedia, I obviously misspoke. What I meant to say was that I used Wikipedia. On my own, I know next to nothing about Koenigsberg.

Sorry for the OT. We now return you to your regularly scheduled warmongering.

 

[GamezRule]

Got it, Overseer.

RESULTS SO FAR:

We will build the Curragh. I will christen it the "Gamezrule"

We will research Philosophy, but we need one more vote to ensure a Lit grab.

We will build Whaleville.

We are now going for the Great Library.

If there are no changes tomorrow in the voting before I play, I will go for Lit if we get the Gambit and if I even make it in time. Right now it is Philosophy in 10 turns, so maybe or maybe not...

EDIT: Aabra, Actually I did use Wikipedia... Thus the mischief Smilie

 

[Lanzelot]

Republic might be feasible if my hunch is right, but also very high risk. With Iron or Horses, it would be less risky, but Archer rushes have such high losses that WW would get out of hand fast.

Good point! If we indeed have no horses, then it would either mean high losses, or we would need to employ combined arms (archer+catapults), both of which are not feasable in Republic (either high WW or high unit upkeep). So after Literature, should we do "The Wheel" next?


So far we have been debating whether we should get the GLib or the Pyramids for free. But why not try to get both of them for free? The GLib may be useful, but it can also turn out to be not that useful at all. The Pyramids on the other hand will be extremely useful in any case (every town grows twice as fast)! Also most of you agreed that the GLib will not be useful in the beginning, but only in the long run. The Pyramids however will be effective immediately. So we can afford to get the Pyramids now and the GLib quite a while later. The following plan may achieve this:

• Finish Philo and grab Literature (if this fails, the plan won't work, so just forget it in this case.)
• Meanwhile send our spear scouting to find the third nation on our continent. On contact we first gift them Literature (and all our other techs to prevent them from trading Lit around too early), before declaring war. (We are allowed to make gifts, before declaring, aren't we?)
• No one else can research Lit that fast (and usually the AI gives it low priority). Therefore this nation will have a very good headstart on the GLib, and chances are very high that it will be built on our continent!
• I hope everyone agrees that in this case taking it will be a piece of cake... And we can choose the perfect point of time for taking it, hopefully getting us far beyond Education.
• Afterwards (i.e. after Philo+Lit) we research Masonry and rush the Pyramids.

You may ask: why not try it the other way around? But Masonry is an early tech, many AIs will have it early, so controlling on which continent the Pyramids get built, is next to impossible.

 

[Sparthage]

On contact we first gift them Literature (and all our other techs to prevent them from trading Lit around too early), before declaring war. (We are allowed to make gifts, before declaring, aren't we?)

Unfortunately no. Our rules (as I understand them) state that we must declare war on contact. This could lead to some interesting dialogues on the diplomacy screen.

 

[Bucephalus]

lurker's comment:

In my experience, the AI will trade techs very quickly, so all AI having contact with your 'chosen' tribe would soon have Lit; then you are open to the lottery of 'Wonder Cascades'.

 

[Lanzelot]

lurker's comment: If you're going to fuss about spelling the city names, then go with Koenigsberg and Heidelberg. I don't know how the first one is shown in the game, but the second one pops up as "Heidelburg," which is wrong.

Yes, it's "Heidelberg", I live here...

Actually, Kaliningrad, as it is known today as, was called Konigsberg when the Teutonic Knights built it for Prussia (Germany). Then the Soviets renamed it Kaliningrad. Koenigsberg was simply a translation of it, with Konigsberg being the more "correct" name.

And the "most correct" spelling is: Königsberg

"Kaliningrad" is Russian and means roughly "Kalinin's City" (Kalinin being a leading member of the Russian Communist Party, who died in 1946, so the Russians named the city in his honor, just like Leningrad and Stalingrad.)

"Königsberg" is German and means "King's Mountain". On keyboards that don't have the letter "ö", the Germans use the combination "oe" to express the same sound. This explains the spelling "Koenigsberg" (so it's not a translation of "Kaliningrad"). "Konigsberg", however, is completely wrong...

Königsberg became a city in 1255. (The first settlements in that location, however, stem from 3000BC.) It has been a cultural and scientific center of Eastern Germany for many centuries. For example, one of the greatest Mathematicians of all times (David Hilbert) came from Königsberg. Other famous mathematicians include Minkowski ("Minkowski Inequality"), Hesse ("Hesse Matrix" and "Hesse Normalform"), Lipschitz, Goldbach ("Goldbach Conjecture") and Hensel.
Then there were a number of famous writers and philosophers, including Immanuel Kant.

In 1945 the beautiful medieval city was completely destroyed, and today it is mainly insignificant.

 

[Optional]

Our rules (as I understand them) state that we must declare war on contact.

Lurker's comment:
Yes, I would think as well. 'No initial trades' would rule out gifting for me.

 

[Lanzelot]

Unfortunately no. Our rules (as I understand them) state that we must declare war on contact.

Ok, well, that's the end of that idea...

 

[GamezRule]

So your saying if this is a continent, then we go for pyramids?

EDIT: One more thing, can somebody post the link for Civ Assist 2 and help me get it running.

 

[Optional]

One more thing, can somebody post the link for Civ Assist 2 and help me get it running.

*Sigh* Don't you know how to use the search option?

I believe it's easy enough to run, but on a Mac it won't run at all, and Vista is a little too modern for it, but if downloading some extra whatever thingy it will run fine on vista. Check the thread, last bit, if you have Vista.

Crikey, I forgot the link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=118540.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker's comment:

I am running CAII on Win7, so it should work on Vista, they are basically the same thing.

 

[GamezRule]

Okay, I must ask something, it really should be a team decision that is going to come up in my turnset. I have now established that this is in fact a much larger continent then we anticipated, I suspect that there are probably at least 2 other Civs here, and also that we will end up being able to put good use to both the GL and Pyramids, now I can use the SGL for either, but we probably will not be able to get the Pyramids on a prebuild at this point in the game, but we could still probably get the GL. So I need input, and will finish my turnset after we make a decision. Also, I still want to know what we should do if we get the Philosophy Slingshot.

Spoiler :

 

[TheOverseer714]

Decisions, decisions. Do we even have any city that could build the GLib in less than 60 turns? As for the Philosophy freebie, if any, in my opinion, Literature is our best choice. I think trying to be a Republic and playing AW with no iron is suicidal.

 

[Lanzelot]

• Yes, Literature, I'd say
• I agree that this looks like we are attached to a big continent (perhaps even Pangaea)?! So Republic is out. We'll have too many contacts soon.
• Both great wonders would be desirable in this situation. We still have time, before we need to decide. As long as there are only 1-2 contacts, there's no need yet to rush the GLib. Watch F7 carefully from now on! We need a good picture of who is building what so we can make our plans and anticipate possible cascades.
• We should still build one curragh in Königsberg, so we can search for sea connections to different continents.

 

[Optional]

...this is in fact a much larger continent then we anticipated...

Lurker's comment:
For experienced players this was already clear in the 1250BC save. The most obvious signs:
* Only 1 silk and 3 grapes visible on your landmass. The random map generator always puts more than that on the same landmass; you can expect some 5 silks and 5 grapes on this landmass, so there had to be much more land.
* The whale east of Amsterdam indicates land to the east. Also there's a coastal tile 4 tiles east of Berlin that points to land there. You just can't tell whether it's an island or a bigger landmass, but there's surely something out there.

Now you've discovered a third lux, which is more proof that you're part of a sizeable landmass.

One question:
Should you not rather be scouting with a curragh than with a spear? If your spear finds a civ, this will likely be the civ closest to you and they can find you easier. If you go with a curragh, making the crossing east of Berlin and then go north, there will be more chance of finding a civ that is further away from you.

As long as there are only 1-2 contacts, there's no need yet to rush the GLib.

There is an advantage in building culture rather earlier than later, as it'll make it easier to hang on to captured towns.
The need for the GLib seems clear anyway. Without iron, your first unit that will have a better attack than 2 will be the longbow. Until Invention you'll only have archers, maybe horses, to fight against pikes and medieval infantry, as you have to assume the other(s) on your continent will have iron. The GLib will shorten your route to Invention, making a big difference.

Watch F7 carefully from now on! We need a good picture of who is building what so we can make our plans and anticipate possible cascades.

F7 only shows wonders in progress of civs you know, so at the moment you only know what the Dutch are building, you have no clue about the other 6 and will only learn something about them when they have finished a building - then a pop-up message will come regardless of whether you've met them or not.
The speed at which the AI is building on Monarch is not that fast, but you haven't yet started any prebuild for the GLib, while it's now something like 1100BC? How can you still anticipate a cascade down from Pyramids or Lighthouse or something?

 

[Daeron]

lurker's comment: In the case of uncertainty, the safest bet is conventional play. Best to focus on what you do know. You can get the GLib without prebuild using the SGL. You have no iron, so horses are your best unit. These can be mass upgraded later on.

If you guys focus on a fast expansion, combined with massing horsemen. You could have the cash for a mass upgrade to knights and still leave enough cash for a deficit run to mil. tradition. Especially if you prebuild for Leo's workshop.

 

[Sparthage]

My suggestions:
SGL used for GLib
Send exploring spear north to see if we're on a bay.

 

[DWetzel]

lurker's comment: In the case of uncertainty, the safest bet is conventional play. Best to focus on what you do know.

This sums it up very, very well. We can win without the Pyramids, though they'd be ince; winning without TGL is going to be much, much harder.

On the plus side, we have something like a 10% chance at an SGL from the Philo-Lit combination, if we get there first.

 

[GamezRule]

On the plus side, we have something like a 10% chance at an SGL from the Philo-Lit combination, if we get there first.

We already have a SGL, so we won't get one unless we use the one we have.