SGFN-08: Random AWM Succession Game

[TheOverseer714]

By the way, IW is often the gamebreaker, if this was Emperor or above and we have no iron, the game would likely be abandoned. I chose IW according to AW philosophy, which is military tech first. If we had almost anyone else, Warrior Code might likely have been first researched. First order in AW is survive. THEN we can worry about a better government. Getting into Monarchy as a government even hurts in AW, as your unit support is cut in half. Getting to Literature fastest should be the next step, and slingshots are highly unlikely anyway in AW. If the SGL is to be used for the GLib, then Pottery and Masonry must be skipped and we do Alphabet, Writing then either Literature or Philosophy>Literature(freebie). However, the GLib has one great fault: to be useful, it requires contacts, and contacts are enemies. If there is a land path to us and we meet several more enemies, we are toast. The Pyramids are immediately useful and Masonry only requires 18 turns at 80% research. After that, Alphabet, Witing and Literature would be the likely path. The GLib requires 40-60 turns of research and takes meeting enemies to have any use. I'm willing to try that path, but the 8 turns to get Pottery have to be given up to have any chance to succeed at all. As far as Republic in AW, I'm not saying it is impossible, but I'm not good enough to manage it. Maybe legends like vmxa, Greebley and TheRat might be able to. Great food for thought, Lanzelot.

 

[Sparthage]

I'm thinking, after reading the last few posts, that I'll hold off my turn set until we reach a decision regarding technology and the SGL. At this point, I'm agreeing that the SGL should be saved for the Great Library. But I've changed my mind regarding technology, I think we should go: Masonry > Alphabet > Writing > Literature.

edit: Republic on AWM isn't something I'd like to try at this time.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

Nice job Lanzelot of offering cogent ideas. If this turns out to be an island, then in effect you are not going to be playing an AW for a long time. In that event IW is not very relevant as you could take down the other guy with archer rushes.

If it turns out that there is a path out to a larger landmass, then IW would be a critical tech. I would want to know soonest, if I am on an island. Like I mentioned, you can use the SGL any way you like, if this is a small island, because you will not be concerned about MGL's.

At some point you will have many wars that will not end for a very long time. Lux will be even harder to come by, if this is a small island. That will add further to the stress, if you are not in Monarch. You will not want to switch a second time, especially, if this is not an island (steady unit traffic).

An island sort of means the GLB is of little value, Unless you have lands close and can reach them to make contacts, you will have to keep researching. I can offer that no GLB is a real pain even at AWM. I am running one now using the settings of your game (as best I knew of them). With 6 enemies in the BC era, research is an issue.

In those terms it is like Sid as I need a number of techs to get out of the AA and one of my enemies finished Sun Tzu.The good news is that the number units they can build are like Monarch. Taking thier towns is like Monarch.

I never tried Republic in AW, that I can remember from the start. I did play out a game someone posted at Emperor and was in Republic and played it out as AW, but they had a lot of land and some lux. They just had trouble with the fighting (armies solved that).

The two things that I feel break an AW game is failing to expand and lack of leaders in the early game. All else can be over come.

Good luck guys

 

[DWetzel]

One nice thing in favor of the Pyramids is that with additional expansion, we can probably more safely devote a town to the Great Library prebuild. There's no obvious site where we can crank out a huge shield production, but there are a number of semi-decent spots; that means we will have one town out of commission for a fairly long time.

 

[del62]

Once thing is if that as you are on Island with only the Dutch in allways war, you could probably spend some time in Republic after you have dealt with the Dutch until you are ready to make an invasion, also you might be able to pick up Iron from small Islands, you will come across some fairly backward civs along the way aswell

 

[TheOverseer714]

If we were a religious tribe on an archipelago, Republic might be fine. Should I ever try that variant, I would choose those settings. With this tribe, anarchy should only happen once, and as early as possible. Since we are stalled in indecision, it is time to make those decisions so the game can continue. Part 1: What do we do with the SGL, the Pyramids or the Great Library? That decides what techs we research, Masonry if Pyramids, Pottery or Alphabet if Great Library?

My vote is the Pyramids and research Masonry.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

Did you ever discover, if you are on an island? I ask, because an island would not a seem a great place to have the Pyramids. I think I would rather have the Colossus in that event. It will pay some nice gold later. The few granaries that you may want, could be built by hand on an island.

It is a great wonder on a continent and a super one on a pan, if you are on the mainland. I suppose that in the end it will not be fatal what ever way you elect to go.

Edit: you do not have to be concerned about the SGL and the research choice as long as you have no elites in combat. As long as you do not risk missing out on MGL's, you have time to use the SGL. Even if someone beats you to a tech, that does not mean they will beat you to the wonder for that tech.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Getting a boat in the water would require Alphabet and a coastal city. Maybe Sparthage should play and set research to Alphabet which is needed for all tech paths we are considering, build a spear and march him through dutch territory and determine whether we are on an island or not. vmxa is ight the SGL can hang around awhile before we have to use him.

 

[Sparthage]

Okay then. I'll save the SGL, and set research to Alphabet. Update will be up in about an hour.

 

[Lanzelot]

I agree with TheOverseer in general, except for one point: let's first do Pottery and then Alphabet. The reason is: as long as we don't have a coastal town, Alphabet doesn't help. Pottery is very cheap (48 beakers) and we can do that in less then 10 turns. We won't have a coastal town that fast anyway, so we can first do Pots.

No matter whether we decide to go for Masonry/Pyramids or not, a very early granary in Leipzig will help getting the next couple of towns up and running asap! And more early towns will reduce the research time for the next couple of techs.

Afterwards Alphabet. It is a step towards Philosophy, and it will help us with both Great Wonders: an early curragh will tell us, whether we are on an island, and therefore whether the Pyramids will be useful. And another 2-3 curraghs will give us the necessary contacts to make the GLib useful.

And also the curraghs will tell us, whether we are separated from the rest of the world by ocean. If this is the case, the other AIs won't find us before Navigation. In that case the GLib will be worthless, and we can go Republic. So basically there are two possibilities:

• We get many contacts. In that case we go Monarchy to avoid war weariness (I guess I can't convince the majority of you to try Republic in that case... ) and build the GLib to get our techs from there. This will more or less be a standard AW game then.
• We get no contacts (except for the Dutch). In that case we forget the GLib and instead go Republic in order to do our own research. (Basically in Republic research is twice as fast as in Monarchy.) War weariness will not be a factor here, because the Dutch should be finished by the time we get Republic.
  
  Then we research as fast as possible to Military Tradition while avoiding Education. After Military Tradition we shut research down and just wait until we get "discovered"... During that time we use our cash for rushing infrastructure and many Cavalries. By the time we get discovered, hopefully the rest of the world has done a large part of the upper tech branch. We look up in F7 who built the GLib, send our Cav army over there and take it. (No need to devote a town to a pre-build in this case. Let's just let the AI do the work for us...)

 

[Sparthage]

Spoiler :

2510 BC- Research set to Alphabet, due in 25 turns @ +1 gpt

IBT- 1 Dutch warrior attacks our warrior 2 tiles SW. He is killed and our warrior becomes a vet.

2470 BC- Berlin: Spear-> Archer (We need some offense). I then gamble and attack with our warrior against the remaining Dutch warrior. The Dutch is redlined, but kills ours and is promoted to vet. Copernicus moves to Berlin (He'll be defended by 2 spears instead to one Warrior).

IBT- Dutch warrior retreats from our territory.

2430 BC-

IBT- Nothing.

2390 BC- Increase science to 90%, alphabet due in 12 @ 0 gpt.

IBT- Nada.

2350 BC- Nothing.

IBT- Zilch

2310 BC- Berlin: Archer-> Archer. Move the archer to the mountain and he sees another Dutch warrior.

IBT- Both Dutch warriors head towards Leipzig.

2270 BC- Change Leipzig to spear from archer and pop rush it. The archer attacks the warrior closest to Berlin, loses 1/4 HP and is promoted to Elite (Our first Elite unit, with hopefully more to come.

IBT- Dutch warrior moves to hill SE of Leipzig.

2230 BC- Leipzig: Spear -> Archer.

IBT- Dutch warrior fortifies on hill. Archer completes healing.

2190 BC- Nothing

IBT- Nothing

2150 BC- Berlin: Archer-> Settler. Archer attacks, is redlined, but kills the dutch warrior on the hill. No Dutch units in sight.

And now, a overview of our situation:

Military:
3 Spears (2 Vet, 1 Reg)
2 Archers (1 Elite, 1 Vet)
1 Warrior (1 Vet)
1 Worker
1 SGL

Research:
Alphabet (Due in 6 turns @ 0 gpt)

City Production:
Berlin: Settler (6)
Leipzig: Rax (18)

Treasury: 5 Gold

My hopes:
1) We win
2) Rush the Rax in Leipzig asap.
3) We go for Literature and the Great Library

Good Luck DWetzel

 

[darski]

won't CAII tell you the stats if you check [properties] on your world map setting?

is that cheating?

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

won't CAII tell you the stats if you check [properties] on your world map setting?

is that cheating?

It won't tell if it is an island/cont/pan. You would need to use SeedBeast. I do not know if that is considered cheating or not. Random setting does not imply you are not to know, it merely means I don't care what type of map.

 

[darski]

Lurker:



It won't tell if it is an island/cont/pan. You would need to use SeedBeast. I do not know if that is considered cheating or not. Random setting does not imply you are not to know, it merely means I don't care what type of map.

My CAII tells me the land mass style

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

My CAII tells me the land mass style

Where I never found it and I have looked. If it does, it should not as that is info you have not learned form anywhere and cannot learn without explorign or trading maps.

 

[darski]

Lurker:



Where I never found it and I have looked. If it does, it should not as that is info you have not learned form anywhere and cannot learn without explorign or trading maps.

Maybe it's here because I chose it...

 

[GamezRule]

I got the problem sorted out and now I'm back, and it feels good to know that I have not gotten Berlin destroyed for us.

 

[Optional]

Maybe it's here because I chose it...

Lurker's comment: CivAssist gives the landmass always, even when you chose random at setup. But if random was chosen for the 'What's in the box?' factor, it doesn't make much sense to look it up at CivAssist.

 

[vmxa]

Lurkers:

It took me a while, but I finally figured out where it displays the properties. Thanks, CAII is even more amazing that I realized. I think I will still use SeedBeast as the world map is sort of painful on huge ones.

 

[DWetzel]

Alright, I got it; I'll try to take a look at it this evening and play either Monday or Tuesday night.