SGOTM 01 - Xteam

[Redbad]

And once the Oracle is completed, I think we'd best get about the task of kicking Cathy out.

agree

I see a dilema before me. Thebes grows in 1 turn. When it does, the citizen will be unhappy and we'll be losing 1 food per turn with the current configuration. My initial thought is to let that citizen starve away as trying to keep them will mean moving off of FP Cottages or a drop in hammers, unless we sacrifice the Scientist? But that can't be a good idea as then most of the GP points will come from the Oracle and that means Great Prophet.

1090BC ... As Thebes is 2 turns from growing I’m switching on “Avoid Growth”. Growing would empty our food bin and run 1 food deficit. So final result would be an empty food bin. Switching working a floodplain cottage to working the plains hill or to a scientist is counterproductive as well.

I intend to keep Thebes focused on The Oracle so that if we lose it, we get as much gold as possible from it. Whne it is down to 1 turn, I think switch to Rax for 2 turns would be smart.

It's a trade off. If the Oracle gets build elsewhere, then having done 2 turns on a barracks earlier, would mean less money from the Oracle but more hammers in the barracks. I must say I'd rather have the hammers

EDIT - I think we need the food in Memphis more than a recon, or not? Building a second work boat should follow the first in priority?

After game thoughts:
Memphis: workboat working the clam, build another workboat and sent that exploring the east. Then start building axes and later maces.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Maybe, if we hire a scientist instead of working the stone hill, for a couple of turns, we can get both CoL and the Oracle in 12?
Depends on how much overflow we'll have from 13 turns research of course, but should be considered?

 

[Capt Buttkick]

I'm away until Saturday. Then I'll probably have to work Sunday and all day Monday to catch up on work before I go on a business trip Monday eve until Wed eve.

Please skip me in both sgotms, at least until Thursday next week.

I'll try to post and share in the discussion from work on Sun-Mon, but won't have time to play

 

[leif erikson]

Bad news, we lost the race to the Oracle by 3 stinking turns, someone completed it on turn 109. But my trial games were pretty accurate. One was turn 109 and the other, turn 103. But that doesn't help me feel better we missed by so little.

THE SAVE!!

Turn log:
Turn 101 – 1000 BC
Pre-turn
As Redbad says, I’d rather have the hammers, so switch Oracle to Barracks.
Check in with Cathy and see that she has 4 cities plus her Capital. Our continent is larger than I thought and might have some goodies for happy pills south of Moscow.
Everything else looks OK, so hit enter.

IBT
Toynbee (where’s Bede?) competes his great work, The Most Advanced Civilizations.
1) Huayna Capac the Glorious.
2) Catherine the Great.
3) Unknown civ.
4) Unknown civ.
5) Unknown civ.
6) Unknown civ.
7) Xteam the Hopeless.

Turn 102 – 985 BC
ZZZzzz

IBT
Memphis Work Boat => Work Boat

Turn 103 – 970 BC
Worker1 to Plain Hill NE of Memphis.
Work Boat to Clam.
Northern Warrior healed and heads southeast.
Change Thebes back to Oracle. Both Code of Laws and Oracle complete in 11 turns.

IBT
ZZZzzz.

Turn 103 – 955 BC
I must admit that I don’t understand why Thebes hasn’t grown. I check the city screen and now understand what Redbad meant by “Avoid Growth” as I find the toggle. I just learned something new, imagine!!
Worker2 SW and roads.
Worker1 roads.
Create a Fishing Boat on the Clam.
Warrior1 south.
Recheck Oracle and Code of Laws, both 10 turns.
Check Memphis citizen assignments. Changing them doesn’t matter in build or research time so leave them as assigned.

IBT
The Pyramids are built in a land far away! There goes that idea...

Turn 104 – 940 BC
Warrior1 to Plains Hill.

IBT
ZZZzzz

Turn 105 – 925 BC
Warrior1 W.
Memphis and Thebes are connected.
Oracle and Code of Laws due in 8 turns.

IBT
ZZZzzz

Turn 106 – 910 BC
Worker1 Mines.
Worker2 joins Worker1.
Warrior1 SE.

IBT
ZZZzzz

Turn 107 – 895 BC
Worker2 mines.
Warrior1 N.
Check Oracle and Code of Laws.

IBT
Memphis Work Boat => Axeman.

Turn 108 – 880 BC
Start Workboat on journey around the northern tip of our continent for recon.
Warrior1 west.

IBT
With 3 turns remaining, we are told the Oracle is built in a land far away, darn!!

Turn 109 – 865 BC
Workboat northeast.
Warrior1 fortifies on a hill.
Mine completes, reassign citizen to the mined plains hill.
Worker2 south.

IBT
We gain 185 Gold for the Oracle build. Thebes changes to Barracks.

Turn 110 – 850 BC
Workboat NE.
Worker2 mines.
I decide to rehire the Scientist in Thebes and stop working the Stone Hill. Barracks due in 12 turns and a Great Scientist due in 11 turns.
I leave Worker1 active for next player to choose work assignment.

After Action Report.
We lost the Oracle race by 3 turns! Thebes is building a Rax (due in 12 turns) and Memphis an Axe (due in 4 turns). We are running 2 Scientists in Thebes and will have a Great Scientist in 11 turns. Our second Workboat is on its way north to recon.

Code of Laws due in 2 turns. Will it be Alphabet, Mathematics or Iron Working? Do we need Alphabet to get techs for peace with Cathy? If so, this may be the best option?

I hope we get Confucianism for happiness sake.

Gentlemen, I suggest we prepare for war.

 

[Bede]

Bummer on the Oracle, but if you didn't get the "Confucianism founded in a distant...." then we are probably safe to the Religion. Guess I'll find out.

Got it. Looking now, play tomorrow.

 

[DJMGator13]

This will be interesting. I've not played any games thru yet where I did not get the Oracle.

Learning Question:
In general (not necessarily this game) how's the best way to recover/move forward when missing the CS slingshot.

 

[Redbad]

Yes, missing out on the Oracle is quite a setback. And I must say I didn't expect it. Stonehenge, a wonder already available with Mysticism and costing 120 hammers (80% of Oracle), wasn't build until turn 97.
Even more suprising is the AI getting the Pyramids this early. After all it costs a massive 450 hammers to build it. We have to expect some AI to have fine lands and resources.

What to do now?

Knocking out Cathy is still priority IMO. Now that we can't deploy maces and Cathy appearing to be quite strong (5 cities), I suggest using swords and axes. Researching Iron Working also enables us to improve the jungled gems. We can't get techs in a peace deal if we don't have Alphabet, so that could be a good tech to research after Iron. Cathy having 5 cities without courts will be cripled in her research. Question: would we be told if Cathy builds the Pyramids in an unknown town or founds a religion there?

I like to see what lies south also. If there's room for all those cities, then there could be another civ also. When having alphabet the more civs we know the better. Maybe squeeze in another workboat after the axe and sent it south?

The war with Cathy could become bloody. I am in favour of chopping us a settler in Thebes first. This settler could found a city on, for example, the tundra hill where the warrior is standing. It isn't the best of places in every aspect, but it will be very productive (cow, horse, hills) and it will bring the silver in our culture after its second expansion. This would mean that when we've researched Iron Working (2 + 10 turns research) and having the great scientist (in 11 turns) we can have 3 cities pumping out swords and axes. Cathy won't be able to resist that.

If the above is a good idea, I suggest switching science to 100% (transforming our Oracle money in research speed), Thebes switching to settler, first worker go chopping, second worker after finishing mining go chopping as well. After the chop of course improving the neighbourhood of the new city.

 

[leif erikson]

I think your plan is basically a good one. If we don't get after Cathy soon, we'll have to wait for Cats as her culture will be too great to touch her cities without lots of units to lose.

I'm not sure about placing a city to get to Silver soon? That makes for a fair number of uselss ice and tundra tiles, 5 of the 21, more if we chop. Would it be better to build a very productive city south of there, say south and southeast, on the river and later try build a northern city to get the silver? I seems hard to pass up two cows, a horse and all those plains hills to pump out military units? We will also have Code of Laws to build Courthouse to help with maintenance costs?

Having a few War Chariots to pick off maurauders would be nice as well, although Cathy's terrain seems pretty compartmented with Jungle and Hills, not good terrain for Horse units.

 

[Redbad]

I'm not sure about placing a city to get to Silver soon? That makes for a fair number of uselss ice and tundra tiles, 5 of the 21, more if we chop. Would it be better to build a very productive city south of there, say south and southeast, on the river and later try build a northern city to get the silver? I seems hard to pass up two cows, a horse and all those plains hills to pump out military units? We will also have Code of Laws to build Courthouse to help with maintenance costs?

Yes, it does look rather attractive to settle in a finer place. But I'm afraid it's not that important how ugly or fine the tiles look which can't be worked anyway . Without the silver Thebes can work 5 tiles, Memphis and the new town 4. With the silver Thebes can work 6 tiles, Memphis and the new town 5. As Thebes already has +1 food, this means Thebes can work an additional grass hill. Memphis an additional forest grass or (better I think) an additional cottaged grass riverbank.
The new town ( if we settle it at the warriors position) can work: grass cow (4f2h), horses (2f3h), cottaged grass riverbank, 2 plains hills. Totalling 14 hammers.

Btw. The above might look different if we get a religion. And we'll know that in 2 turns.

 

[romeothemonk]

I think that the little diversion towards fishing really kinda kicked us in the junk. With this game you need a single mindness of purpose that only the zealots and the idiots have. (You can draw your own conclusions as to which one I am).
I would advocate redbeards city locale. I would also advocate having at least 3 workers.
After CoL and our religion, I would head for construction. Cats and/or War Heffalumps are good for us. Alphabet is also a nice option as well, but I really like early cats.
I concur that directly the next tech should be IW.

 

[leif erikson]

Btw. The above might look different if we get a religion. And we'll know that in 2 turns.

I'm glad you added this as I am hoping for just such an occurance!!
I'll try to look closer at city sites this evening when I have some time.
Knowing there may be some goodies to the south that can be ours if we push out a few extra units is on my feeble mind.. However, the Silver may allow this as well as we can grow to a larger size.
How hard would it be to adopt Cathy's religion? Should we miss, of course?

 

[Bede]

Looks like a bit of caretaking this round. Plant a new town if possible. Keep the heat on the scientists and train some more military.

 

[Redbad]

I think that the little diversion towards fishing really kinda kicked us in the junk.

Indeed, not researching fishing and an extra chop towards the Oracle would have saved 3 turns. It'll be on my consience for ever

btw. Wouldn't it have been better if you romeo had taken Bede's turn? Who else is more qualified to get us an religion then a monk? But then again: Bede looks like a monk too.

 

[Bede]

Confused Egypt

The key events

Turn 111, 835 BC: You have discovered Code of Laws! Confucianism has been founded in Memphis!

Turn 114, 790 BC: Used the missionary to spread Confucianism to Thebes.

Did not convert the nation yet as the happiness boost isn't needed yet. If we want to grow out the two cities after the settler that would be a good time.

Set the workers to chopping next to the lake at Thebes but may have wasted a worker turn as the second worker has not started work yet. There are two turns left on the first worker's assignment so maybe stopping him and momving him up to the northernly forest and starting the second would be the most economical move. Or maybe it won't matter.

One of the scientists at Thebes is working the heavy hammer mine as there are only 3pts needed for the Great Scientist at Thebes. IW due soon, man, like two turns.

This was something of a disappointment


Cathy wanted Open Borders but I declined again.

 

[leif erikson]

Nice work Bede!

I can't believe there was nothing on the other side of those mountains.
Looks like Gyathaar got us again!!

It will be interesting to see what our little work boat finds as it proceeds south. Hope it is more than it found going around those mountains.

I wonder if it is time to start a discussion around what our strategy should be concerning the tech tree. Having lost the Oracle, I think we consider what techs we need to head for to complete our mission in this game. I think we have decided on domination. Should we head for Grenadiers? How about Astronomy for Galleons? What advantages can we gain over the AI through fast research that we can exploit? Do we need to go for The Great Library?

 

[Redbad]

Good job, Bede.

Some points:
Well done on holding back on the third workboat. With no land to the east it isn't necessary to build a third one.

Also a good idea to spread confucianism to Thebes right away. We can however convert to Confucianism now, as we are spiritual it won't cost us any anarchy. It will provide 1 hapiness and so we can switch off avoid growth in Thebes. We have to do 1 turn on the barracks though to enable growth. Together with the possibility to build a cheap temple there is little need for the silver in the short run. So we can choose a super productive site.

Perhaps it wasn't necessary to road the second plains hill near Memphis, as it doesn't provide much benefit.

Researching Alphabet next is best I think. If not for trading then for extorting techs. After that we'll know for sure how many civs there are on our continent. With that knowledge we can decide on beelining for the naval techs or improving on our military or economy first.

 

[DJMGator13]

Man that rotation went fast.

Roster
Gator - Up
Romeo - On deck
Redbad -
leif -
Bede - just played
Bradleyfeanor - waiting for his return
Capt - (skip until midweek)

Romeo since we switched on the first turnset do you want to just keep this lineup? If so this is a got it. But I can't play until tomorrow and I'll be up in both SGOTM this weekend.

 

[leif erikson]

Just read this in the maintenance thread.

Thought you should all see it as it may affect us?

How is it coming Gator?

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Indeed, not researching fishing and an extra chop towards the Oracle would have saved 3 turns. It'll be on my consience for ever

You can't have done many stupid things in your life if you choose to worry about this one
It's one of those decisions that could go both ways. If the slingshot had worked and if there was more land to explore to the eas, we'd all be now.

 

[Cosmichail]

Lurking here but Redbad I thought I would mention that you can see who built the wonder in same place as the graph only click on the wonder/cities at the bottom and you will be able to see who built what. If you know the city it will say "what city" however if you don't it will just say unknown city or something like that...(but it might give you an idea who did sometimes) Good Luck and good going on getting religion. Real shame about the Oracle but hey the main thing is to keep on trucking.