SGOTM 02 - Team CFR

[IL2T]

Why do you think the chances are insignificant?

"Insignificant" is inexact word.

My reasonings are based on the following facts:
-Germany have Col and haven't Alphabet
-Spain have some techs, which we dot have

Intuitively I would like to reduce risk of absence of the alphabet.

 

[Obormot]

There is no risk. We don't need CoL now, we only need it 30 turns later. Researching full steam we can get Alphabet+CoL in about 20 turns. This means we can wait about 10 turns more, looking for more contacts and hoping to trade for Alphabet. If we cannot trade for Alphabet, we research it at 100%, and we will still have time to research CoL, even if we cannot trade for it. Though I don't think this is an important issue.

-Spain have some techs, which we dot have

So what? We can get these same techs from other AIs. It won't change anything. But delaying the capture of Seville will.

 

[IL2T]

Ok

If we now knew all AI and nobody would have the Alphabet, we have begun research immediately or waited for 10 turns?

Still I'm not confident in maintence cost after capture of three more cities.

 

[Obormot]

I believe that waiting for 10 turns won't hurt us in any case. It is up to Lexad though.

 

[IL2T]

So what? We can get these same techs from other AIs. It won't change anything. But delaying the capture of Seville will.

I believe that Spain techs will not cost to us of anything. And a problem of later capture Sevilla and the charge of beakers on the Alphabet, I ignore.
Probably it is not right!

 

[IL2T]

I believe that waiting for 10 turns won't hurt us in any case. It is up to Lexad though.

It just that case when we understand strategy equally, but tactical decision destroy confidence of strategic basis!

 

[Lexad]

Thanx everybody for your ideas, it was what I was hoping for when laying down my preliminary strat.

I'm also uneasy about Alphabet (it was me who objected first against this branch ), and agree we win no momentum here by rushing it. So we wait what the reconnoisance team delivers.

I'm negative about peace with Isabella (and the main reason is not Seville but additional unrest in former Spanish Judaist cities) unless she can give us some mainstream tech - Calendar or CoL. Btw, Bismark not necessarily has CoL, Confucianism has spread to him.

Settlers - I planned building them in Cordoba, not many turns left til we can start them, but I'll revise it. At least 1 good city (clam + iron + hill + riverside grasslands) can be founded soon, so I'll get 1 started in Osaka.

Other questions:

I don't understand why did the caravell from Kyoto sail north? I think it is very likely that we'll find other AIs on the same continent as Germany, so I propose to send it there.

My sentiments exactly:

Also, the barb galley actually can't get to our fishes... I'm going to explore Germany and neighbours. There should be someone near who gave them Confucianism and thus has CoL

I think we need only one farm for Edo, so that we can support 4 scientists

-

Also, for rushing GS under castes I would've irrigated 1 grass near Edo to get food for 4, not cottaged

So we agree on most things. That;s good.

As for forests, we win no hammers, but we can chop-rush an army when time comes. Also remaining forests will be near new ports and thus used for rushing fleet.

 

[Lexad]

I'll wait couple more hours for final proposals and then play.

 

[IL2T]

Good luck! ...and random...

 

[Obormot]

Settlers - I planned building them in Cordoba, not many turns left til we can start them, but I'll revise it. At least 1 good city (clam + iron + hill + riverside grasslands) can be founded soon, so I'll get 1 started in Osaka.

I believe Osaka is better for the task, because it is not suited for slavery (too many good tiles). Other cities should be using the time left before the revolt for poprushing, while Osaka can build stuff normally, during Castes era.

As for forests, we win no hammers, but we can chop-rush an army when time comes. Also remaining forests will be near new ports and thus used for rushing fleet.

This depends on whether we'll be able to build all the stuff we need before Astronomy & CS or not. If we can finish forge, granary and court normally, then you may be right, otherwise it is better to chop immidiately. This is propably different for different cities..

 

[Lexad]

Save

[0] 100 BC – all changes enacted, science zero.
IBT – barb galley dies on our Caravel.
[1] 85 BC - workors work, armies move
[2] 70 BC – Discovered Egypt NE from Kyoto (8 cities) on same continent with Bismark (6 cities), Buddhist, they have HRule (Pyramids owner wasn’t revealed so I think they have Monarchy), Slavery and OrgReligion. Not the founders of Confucianism. Thebes pop 8.
Their borders do not even touch – here’s the effect of raging barbs!
[3] 55 BC - troops ready for assault of Madrid and Cordoba. Each city has 4 defenders and 6 attackers. Risky but we have no more troops at hand. On an afterthought I would’ve launched 1 attack group, not 2. Hopefully, our “mercy killers” can finish beaten defenders next turn.
[4] 40 BC – closest German city is Berlin (pop 7), it has GL, though stands on a hill.
Met Huayna Capac (6 cities) running through Germany, Buddhist & founder, same continent, HRule and Slavery, no Confucianism or Alphabet, but has Currency! Pyramids are in Cuzco (pop 9). On a quick glance – Bismark also has Currency.
Met Mansa (6 cities) west from Germany, Buddhist, same continent, Slavery and OrgReligion. Timbuktu is pop 6, Henge.
Warfare – our swords won 2 25% fights and last captures Madrid. Pop 6, 2 workers, Lighthouse and Academy – thus the missing GScientist. Out of revolt in 6 turns. Production set Granary as it would be too long waiting for Forge and too much unhappy to grow to 8. Will build Forge next choice (+chop).
Cordoba – lost 2 60%-fights (random’s revenge), but here no hill amd only 1 with City Garrison I promotion, so last sword captures Cordoba. Pop 6, no buildings. Out of revolt in 5 turns Production set Granary.
[5] 25 BC – our Caravel from continent finds landmass with Inca presence. We seem to examine same continent from opposite sides, and it is HUGE, seems to surround Kyoto islands from NE to SW.
Killed stray Spanish archer near Cordoba who was previously guarding wheat. Heal and gather forces to Seville.
War unhappiness kicks in in Kyoto, making it grow slower than expected. Still going to pop-rush Forge in 5 turns.
721 gold in coffers. It may play against us in trades as AI tend to skyrocket prices for techs to payable customers, and they have Currency to take it into account. I try searching for AI till end of my turns, but if find none with Alphabet we must start researching it ourselves (5 turns)
[6] 10 BC – zzz
[7] 5 AD – Happy Xmas. Yayoi Granary -> Forge
[8] 20 AD 5 swords move to Seville. It is a big continent, it continues west from Kyoto. Incas are on the “outer” coast, west from Mali.
[9] 35 AD – North from Mali (NW from Kyoto) is Kublai Khan (7 cities), Buddhist, same continent, HRule and Slavery, equal to us in points, Karakorum pop 8. 1 AI left.
Could it be Kyoto is in an inner sea?
Capac adopts OrgReligion
Pop-rush Granary in Cordoba – takes 2 pop, some overflow for next build.
Osaka Settler -> Granary
[10] 50 AD – Cordoba Granary -> Forge
Madrid pop-rush Granary, next is Forge.
Kyoto pop-rush Forge.
4 swords outside Seville. Garrison 2 archers (1 is CGarr II and 1 has no promotions)
Continent continues North from Kyoto.

So next turns are finish Spain, find 1 more civ – I believe it should be NE from Kyoto – and, I fear, rush Alphabet. We have 798 coins on the nail and +10 per turn at 0% science.
Continue scouting and make the first round-the world trip to deliver armies sooner to their continents.
AI seem of the same level as we are. They do not settle densely – here the effect of Aggressive barbs. This means we have less to conquer. Also not of them love each other, even in Buddhist league Hatshepsut is a scape goat. We can try to launch a war between them – esp with Bismark – and backstab when their troops will be off to front.
Kublai’s power growth dwarfs others.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

I'll still want Alphabet. AI are usually very unwilling to learn it.

OOps. It's late already.

 

[IL2T]

Lexad Lucky random! Only 5 swords lost!

What to do further? Such development of a situation nonpluss me!

 

[Lexad]

4 swords and it worked both ways, but in Madrid it favoured us. What to do next is a point of big discussion. i believe Inca is the founder of Conf and has CoL, so we should rush Alphabet and start trading, meanwhile developing newly conquered cities. More detailed view hard to give now, maybe later. Other team members might find somewhat more useful to say.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

Poor Bismarck. Nobody loves him.

I just wonder that idea of stopping research won. Alphabet ASAP. AIs easily can teach optics while don't know Alphabet. I don't know why they don't like letters.

PS. Oh. It semms I recognize it. They like digits.... because they are digital.

 

[IL2T]

Our basic problems (that we can make):
-Low total happiness (HRule or Drama with Luxury rate)
-High maintence cost, 2 new cities will lay down us in conditions of financial crisis (courthouse, growth of commerce)
-Minimal speed scientific researches, Civil service absolutly needed (2 GS in a stock, trade with AIs)

I will play at friday or saturday! Let's discuss...

 

[Obormot]

Excellent! I was too a bit uneasy about sending only 6 swords to attack Madrid (wanted to add a couple more to be sure), but it is good that we managed to capture it. And Isabella even made an academy for us!

Too bad nobody has Alphabet, now we have to research it ourselves at 100% rate, then trade for everything we can get and decide what to do further. We haven't lost anything though, so I don't understand why is everybody complaining about it.

The cities should continue whipping usefull buildings. Normally the idea is to whip every 15 turns on average so that unhappiness doesn't accumulate. But in this case, I think we should whip everytime we have enough population. In 20 turns time we are going to switch to castes and stay in CS for a while, so by the time we really need massive productions our cities should be OK. Even Madrid can whip, because we have HR and thus can stack all the units there.

I would build two more settlers in Kyoto to settle all the planned cities. We are doing OK in techs, hopefully we can trade CoL and Calendar, then we'll only need to research CS after Alphabet. So we can afford some extra maintenance.

Our basic problems (that we can make):
-Low total happiness (HRule or Drama with Luxury rate)
-High maintence cost, 2 new cities will lay down us in conditions of financial crisis (courthouse, growth of commerce)
-Minimal speed scientific researches, Civil service absolutly needed (2 GS in a stock, trade with AIs)

I will play at friday, saturday or sunday! Let's discuss...

The research of course is low, but we only need one tech and we have plenty of time to research it. So courts are not top priority IMO, granaries and forges should come first. Remember also that in CS our research will be higher because of scientists (and Madrid even has an academy).

 

[IL2T]

IMHO If we wait for the Alphabet at AIs we can receive nothing as a result of an techs trade. It also is that risk about which I spoke.

 

[IL2T]

I would build two more settlers in Kyoto to settle all the planned cities. We are doing OK in techs, hopefully we can trade CoL and Calendar, then we'll only need to research CS after Alphabet. So we can afford some extra maintenance.

Now we have only +10 at 0% research rate. May be to us necessary wait a little with found new cities!

The research of course is low, but we only need one tech and we have plenty of time to research it. So courts are not top priority IMO, granaries and forges should come first. Remember also that in CS our research will be higher because of scientists (and Madrid even has an academy).

Ok. I hope, that we can discover CS for 40-50 turns!

 

[IL2T]

My easy program:
We must maximize commerce and production!

Research – Alphabet at 100% (4 turns), then Civil service at 0%.
Trade with AIs, i think necessary upload intermediate save!

Cities We continue in the same spirit!
Here a unique question: found additional cities at once or later?

Warfare – next turn destroy Spain (may be lost 1 sword)