SGOTM 13 - T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't

[Brian Shanahan]

Ok I'll look at the save tomorrow, and give my thoughts on this, as I'm up.

I'm guessing that PD's beelined the military techs, and unless they're going to war everybody quick like, they'll have trouble keeping their empire going.

I think that may be our problem, that we're not willing to suffer catastrophic empire collapse in order to get the power up quickly for the early win.

But we'll see.

 

[neilmeister]

Nice! Izzy was finished of pretty quick.

I notice everyone has a really big tech lead on us. We will have to be super careful about the tech trading.

Trade Steel to them for the remaining techs. I think I would pick Joao first (as he is pleased) to get Nat/PP and 1 turn later, ??, to get SM/RP.

 

[Benginal]

I notice everyone has a really big tech lead on us. We will have to be super careful about the tech trading.

Trade Steel to them for the remaining techs. I think I would pick Joao first (as he is pleased) to get Nat/PP and 1 turn later, ??, to get SM/RP.

Yeah, the tech thing was problematic. I'm not quite sure what to do about it except fight our way out. I think steel was the last tech we need as long as we can finish off a few other AIs before they get Rifles. I think this is quite possible. We can take over Willem and then just out produce other people. Even if they have rifles enough cannons will be able to solve any problem the AIs can throw at us, .

I've been building Frigates for naval protection. So our galleys can be protected while they shuttle troops. We will need more maces and cannons. But we can do it. I'm not sure what you guys experienced with Ragnar but I noticed that Izzy had even fewer troops than I was expecting. I think the AIs are hurting from the lack of hills (and lack of immortal bonuses...).

 

[Alamankarazieff]

Good job ! Capturing so many cities in so few turns was really good troop management.
Did the viking cities and the spanish cities become french when their boss was destroyed, or did they pick up another culture ?
If we want to get back in the tech race, we could start building wealth in cities until we reach 100% to fully leverage our production power. Maybe until we get rifling. I wouldn't trade steel, except for techs that will get us close to rifling.
OR a beeline to communism, to get into state property and see our income explode, while we war happily with mace and cannons.
Frigates were a good idea, I love them dearly.


From looking at other teams score, we're not late at all re:turnsets, but we started warring after everyone else apparently. Anyway, I'm really happy the way we are now making progress.

 

[neilmeister]

Good job ! Capturing so many cities in so few turns was really good troop management.
Did the viking cities and the spanish cities become french when their boss was destroyed, or did they pick up another culture ?
If we want to get back in the tech race, we could start building wealth in cities until we reach 100% to fully leverage our production power. Maybe until we get rifling. I wouldn't trade steel, except for techs that will get us close to rifling.
OR a beeline to communism, to get into state property and see our income explode, while we war happily with mace and cannons.
Frigates were a good idea, I love them dearly.


From looking at other teams score, we're not late at all re:turnsets, but we started warring after everyone else apparently. Anyway, I'm really happy the way we are now making progress.

I agree regarding building wealth, and/or using merchant specialists in caste system.

Disagree regarding not trading steel, trading it will net us ~5-6 techs at least, and allow us to catch up. I expect we will get Nationalism, Printing Press, Scientific Method, Liberalism, Banking & maybe Replaceable Parts from trading Steel.

I completely agree that Communism is a worthy goal for us.

 

[Benginal]

Sorry again about the delay. Here's my personal log of important events:

Spoiler :

turn 260: Beg 1gpt from Catherine. She gives in and the fist sticks around which I think means that she's targeting somebody else.

turn 261: Refuse Joao's Demand to convert to Taoism. We're at pleased and he's still expanding, so I'm not too worried.

turn 264: Re-declare war on the Viking, the first turn we were able to.

turn 266: Raise Lodose (no losses). Capture Tansberg (one mace at 75% odds). Capture Jelling (no losses). Russia falls to cautious with us. Sell Philosophy to Catherine for 610 gold and get her back to pleased.

turn 267: Settled our next GG in Paris. We already had two medics (a standard medic 3 and then a woody 3 one).

turn 268: Captured Roskilde (one treb, one cat). Ragnar finished.

turn 269: Dutch fist went away.

turn 273: Chemistry in. Made the trade to get Astro, see picture. Paris starts building Frigates.

turn 274: Declare on Izzy.

turn 275: Capture Madrid (2 trebs, one mace at 83%). Willem demands Chemistry. I give in. I just moved my entire force to Spain and was not liking the idea of a backstab. Chemistry seemed a reasonable price to pay to guarantee this.

turn 277: Joao Demands gunpowder. I think the AIs are talking about this schmuck over here giving stuff away. I give in of course.

turn 278: Capture Toledo (4 cats, mace at 46%)

turn 280: Capture Barcelona (no losses)

turn 281: Capture Cordoba (2 cats, 1 mace at 69%). Great Merchant born in Paris at 17% odds. This made up for all the bad luck we've had so far as without it I don't think we ever would have made it to steel.

turn 284: Capture Seville (no losses)

turn 286: Captured Zaragoza (one mace at 76%)

turn 288: Captured Salamanca (no losses)

turn 289: Captured Valencia (one mace at 96%). Captured Santiago (1 treb). GG born in Rheims. HE'S STILL THERE. WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING WITH HIM AND NOT FORGET HE'S THERE.

turn 290: Captured Murcia (2 trebs).

turn 291: moved some troops around. let war weariness go away. uploaded save. so it's still turn 291, since i didn't accidentally end the turn again, .

 

[Benginal]

Many of the cities have either no garrison or highly promoted maces garrisoning. So we're going to need some longbows or something for city garrison and get all of our maces back up to the front.

I think maces+collateral cannons+city bombard frigates can deal with Willem, Victoria, and however much of Joao/Catherine as we need. It might also be wise to skip Victoria if we can't get to her in time, because magic red coats suck.

We have a Great General just hanging out. We can either put him in another city or maybe make a super city raider maceman for a free upgrade to Rifle. I don't really mind. I think settling might be best, but I'm not sure where.

Trading Steel to everyone I think is fine. It's not a prerequisite or even helpful in getting a quicker Rifling which is our main concern. And the AI is not very good at sacrificing its own siege to weaken our stack of doom. Those things Neil said we could get I also think we can get. Let's go for it.

I've been running merchants in cities as they get grocers. I haven't been building markets so much, but they're fine too. It's just that health is a bigger problem than happiness. But our water tiles are now very not good, so merchants are better. I think we're whipping enough that we have to stay in slavery as opposed to Caste, but I'm not sure of that. I certainly whipped a bunch. .

I think Rifling is probably a better beeline than Communism. I'm hopeful that we can have this game finished by the time Communism is around. I'm not sure what's being shown now but for a while we were at 1.8 times power over England and 1.3 times power over Joao (or something like that). With frigates for bombard power and cannons for siege that won't die (I imagine most of the cannons will be able to withdraw) I'm going to really push for just winning right now. Also remember that Dom is acceptable and conquest without vassalization this late in the game is silly. In other words, we can leave some of the AIs alone.

 

[Ichabod]

Brian_Shanahan asked me to post this in his profile and current SGs.

He wants you all to know that he won't be coming back to post in this site. If anyone is interested in knowing the reason, feel free to contact him.

That being said, he also wants to inform you that he is resigning his spots in all the Sucession Games that he's currently playing.

Regards,

Ichabod

 

[Benginal]

Well that's disappointing. . I hope he chooses to return and if he does we'll happily welcome him back.

This means that drlake is up next. But we still have quite a few things to decide on before that point.

 

[neilmeister]

???

I can only assume he has been banned. Otherwise why would he not post this himself.

 

[drlake]

I Emailed Brian, and he did get banned. Long story short, he was engaged in a discussion on religion in OT, took offense at how someone else interpreted his words, a mod jumped on him saying he was "trolling" (I don't see it, personally), he disagreed with the mod (suggesting that the action was biased since the other party had done the same thing and the mod praised them) which was called a second infraction and led to the ban.

I can play a set either tonight or Wed/Thu. Doesn't sound like tonight is an option, since we've got stuff to work out. I'll look at the save in a bit, after I do some more work.

EDIT: From his Email, it doesn't sound like he has any intention of coming back. He does apologize to us for leaving.

 

[drlake]

"got it". Definitely a lot to think about...

 

[Trystero]

Ugh. That is too bad about Brian.

I'll have to take a look at the save (job interviews have been distracting me), but it looks like we are going in the right direction. I agree with continuing warring as long as is feasible. Definitely build LBs for garrison duty and move maces to the front. We want as many CR-promoted as we can get prior to Rifle upgrades.

And I am for trading Steel to move toward Rifling or Communism.

 

[drlake]

OK, first on Steel trades...

First round of trades needs to include Printing Press and Banking. That will set up Scientific Method and Replaceable parts for the following turn. Might be able to get Lib and or Nat thrown in with those techs, since IIRC they are lower cost than Steel.

Second round goals are Scientific Method (first, to set up Communism) and Replaceable Parts (to set up Rifling).

Production is troops (send towards Willem?) and filling in infrastructure in our new territories?

I'll look at the save more in the morning.

 

[Trystero]

Also, with regards to the GG: Might we make a second super-medic to split the stack?

 

[drlake]

Also, with regards to the GG: Might we make a second super-medic to split the stack?

Idk, do you think it is worth it? I mean, obviously you do, but I've pretty much never done that so I don't have any basis for judging its usefulness.

 

[Trystero]

I'm not sure, actually. The question is what would be of more benefit: more highly promoted units right out of the gate, or quicker healing at the front. In my experience healing is often the rate limiting factor in combat, so I would rather have stacks that can get going faster after capturing a city.

That said, this is only immediately worthwhile if we have enough units or plans to make two stacks.

 

[neilmeister]

I'd support a second super medic, for sure.

It doesn't mean we have to attack 2 different AI at once, but it will allow multiple stacks to move at good speed.

As for the trades, I would start with Joao, as he is the most backward, and probably wait a turn before doing any more trades. Willem is by far the most advanced, so do him last, if at all.

 

[Benginal]

We already have two medics. We've got a woody III one (not a great general) and a medic III one (a great general). I don't think we need a third medic, although we can do that if we are planning to mount another front against Vicky...

 

[Trystero]

We already have two medics. We've got a woody III one and a medic III one (not a great general). I don't think we need a third medic, although we can do that if we are planning to mount another front against Vicky...

Whoops! OK then, never mind.

I am taking a look at the save. One other thing I might recommend is switching our EP from Willem to Cathy (or Joao, or Vicky).