If we manage to get Code of Laws on T64, we could switch religions and send our 2 garrison warriors to go spawnbust on T64. We should be able to get horses by T72 roughly with the culture from Oracle and Religious capital.
I kind of like Adam where he is. He is making sure a barb city doesn't form and prevent us from settling on wine. It would be another river city with great commerce potential. He is also well placed to kill a barb that wanders by and become another Woody II unit.
Notice that Confucianism is founded by Ramesses on T59-T60, but CoL has not yet been researched in the test game. The religion should be world built out of his cities after this.
This may be a bit premature, but I wanted the team to see where I was headed, before going too far in the wrong direction.
The grand strategy from the 1st page with a few comments/questions added:
Grand Strategy tentative
Spoiler:
Goal domination and religious victory
Use large corporation-empowered, near-domination-size empire to power through research to FT1
Worker stealing is so important I think we have to plan for it even perhaps if we have only 1 AI on our continent (we can steal techs from the them too even if we can't trade) Use Oracle for Code of Laws (Metal Casting, Currency, Aesthetics, ... possible, but we are leaning toward CoL)
Generate Great Scientist ASAP to immediately construct an early Academy in Paris
Ideally build Pyramids with stone to help with great engineer and our research (and to help handle an early expansion and still maintain a decent tech rate)
build early AP and early Univ of S to help with research while expanding rapidly via REX and early conquest (AP in which religion?)
build sistine chapel and early temple and early monastery in our 2 planned legendary cities. Early temple and early monastery to get some synergy with AP and Univ of S. and get their culture doubled (with sistine chapel an old temple and old monastery go a long ways to getting legendary culture)
build most of our wonders in 2 planned legendary cities (Paris and Orleans?).
Early astronomy for tech trading and trade routes? Plus might want to conquer an AI over on the other continent early to set up for domination win.
Early biology and early sushi to help recover from lots of Organized religion whipping of temples and monasteries plus sushi for the culture.
We've been discussing some of the questions I put in, and others will get discussed as the game progresses I guess.
Decathlon status:
Spoiler:
1) Blazing: You must submit a save covering at least your first 100 turns not later than 2 months after game start. (November 21st?)
2) Steal EITHER Iron Working, OR Astronomy, OR Physics using espionage. (Probably Iron Working from Brennus)
3) At least one AI opponent has been eliminated (conquered) by your team
4) Kill Humbaba (24 unit according to Tachwaxon's research)
5) Be EITHER the United Nations Secretary General OR the Apostolic Palace Resident
6) You own at least 2 Legendary culture cities (Paris and Orleans)
7) You own at least 3 Holy Shrines (Budhist, Confu? And ….
8) You own at least 3 Corporate Headquarters (mining inc, Sushi, the appropriate one depending on GP availability).
9) You have learned Future Tech 1
10) Fulfil the requirements for TWO victory conditions, at least one of which is NOT Conquest or Domination (tentatively Religious and Domination).
Technology
Research
t59 – t62: Mathematics (208/390B) at 100% (39 Bpt / -3 Wpt)
t63: Mathematics at minimum Research slider to complete Mathematics (70%?)
t64: Currency at 00% Research slider
t65 - t69: Civil Service at 100% (39+ Bpt / -3 Wpt)
Mathematics will be completed on t63.
Trade for Fishing, Sailing, Polytheism, Masonry, Monotheism, Monarchy when possible. Priority is Fishing -> Sailing to build The Great Lighthouse.
Diplomacy
Accept demands from Ramesses II. For the record, we already have -1 " Refused to stop trading with our WE".
Declare war on Brennus when we can safely steal another Worker or two.
Try to cease fire with Brennus ASAP, so he doesn't start spamming units (Axemen/Spearmen/Archers) and we get another possible worker steal opportunity.
Cease fire not likely to happen till 6t later, but don't offer/refuse CF afterwards also, choke Brennus. Will be difficult considering he has at least one axe and/or spear.
City Builds and Unit Orders:
Paris
t59 - t69: Continue Settler (27/100H) organically at +1F +2 Hpt
t59 - t67: 2 x 4C, 3C, 2 x 3B
t59 - t67: Generate Great Scientist via working two Scientists
t68 - t69: 2 x 4C, 3C, 4F1H, 4H
Orleans
t59 - t63: The Oracle - completes via pre-Mathematics BFC and post-Mathematics BFC chop
t64 - t69: Spy (for stealing Iron Working)
t59 - t69: 3C, 4F1C, 2 x 3H
Workers
Eiffel
t59: 1t of Mine
t60: 2-E onto GF
t61 - t63: Chop Forest
t64: 2-W onto GH
t65 - t67: 3t of Mine
t68: 1-SE, 1t of Fp Cottage
t69: next turn set
Slave
t59: 1-NE after Louis moves there as escort/safety check
t60: 1-N into area fog-busted by Paris
t61: 2-NE to 3-S of Paris
t62: 2-N onto PH
t63 - t67: Mine PH
t68: 2-N
t69: next turn set
Warriors:
Adam - fogbust the pigs/wine area from the current location.
Joan - Moves to 6-N+2-E of Paris and fog-busts there until Missionary arrives to help, 4-N
Bill - Garrison Paris.
New Warrior - Garrison Orleans
Eve - Explore unrevealed coastline in westerly (West) direction
Louis - Escort Slave north and on t60, move south in search of more Workers to steal
Confucian Missionary from being 1st to Code of Laws:
As part of LowtherCastle's NE flank fog-busting plan: move to 2-N of Corn
End of turn reminder:
Save Game at the beginning of each turn.
Take a screenshot of the demographics and espionage screen each turn.
Check zoomed-out culture screen for Ramesess or "alien" culture.
Check if an AI entered WHEOOHRN mode (fist icon).
Doublecheck tech trade options with Egypt.
Passive intelligence data:
Note sabotage building values for Brennus's cities each turn.
Note AI's score each turn.
Note AI's power ratio against us each turn (it's set to 4 decimal places in my BUFFY settings since a few days ago).
Post on thread when:
Find Stone or Marble while exploring; do not stop.
Stopping conditions
Meet a new AI.
Unexpected War Declaration.
Something weird happens.
Barbarian warrior/archer entering our culture.
Lose the Slave (unlikely at this point)
Louis finds a Worker on Brennus' Cultural Edge or outside it that is vulnerable to capture.
a little late but... nice job Walter_Wolf
1. mabraham ... IN THE HOLE
2. Tachywaxon
3. bcool
4. WastinTime
5. Walter_Wolf
6. Kaitzilla
7. Sun Tzu Wu .....UP NOW
8. shulec .....ON DECK
I'd like to see us build the settler asap once we know that we can get a T63 mathematics. I'd even look to turn off the scientists on T62 if we can get away with it.
I'd like to produce that settler in paris asap, with a forest chop to boot. I'd like a spy build in Paris (with a 2nd forest chop perhaps) and then we can go back to getting the academy. I think it is more important to settle more cities asap and get a spy asap then to get the academy asap.
There are at least decent odds we can get a forest regrow if we chop now. I think there are too many things to build that have a high importance to save those forests for 15 more hammers 40+ turns from now. Producing the 3rd city 5 turns earlier is going to get us 15 more hammers to use easily.
The odds of us trading for fishing/sailing/masonry are very low.
Rather than researching civil service I want fishing self-researched.
I think it is very important that we get an exploratory fishing boat in the water asap. I also think it would be worth researching fishing/sailing/masonry ourselves for a shot at the Great LH.
I'd like to see us build the settler asap once we know that we can get a T63 mathematics. I'd even look to turn off the scientists on T62 if we can get away with it.
I'd like to produce that settler in paris asap, with a forest chop to boot. I'd like a spy build in Paris (with a 2nd forest chop perhaps) and then we can go back to getting the academy. I think it is more important to settle more cities asap and get a spy asap then to get the academy asap.
There are at least decent odds we can get a forest regrow if we chop now. I think there are too many things to build that have a high importance to save those forests for 15 more hammers 40+ turns from now. Producing the 3rd city 5 turns earlier is going to get us 15 more hammers to use easily.
The odds of us trading for fishing/sailing/masonry are very low.
Rather than researching civil service I want fishing self-researched.
I think it is very important that we get an exploratory fishing boat in the water asap. I also think it would be worth researching fishing/sailing/masonry ourselves for a shot at the Great LH.
Since we have enough gold to run 100% science all the way through T63, when math is due, I think we might consider the option to finish the Settler in Paris before the G scientist.
If Paris switches the scientists T59 to wheat/cottage (which, Orleans is not working in the next 5 turns anyway), the Settler might be out T66 without any chops (maybe chop a 2nd settler?). T66 put the scientists back, and we get the G sci T74 (instead of T67).
Also, I like the Fishing/Sailing/Masonry tech path to try getting TGL which would help our quick ("horizontal" as Tachy calls it) expansion which should start happening ASAP. Obviously, we should take the advantage of the cheap libraries, and all that fish. With a little help from TGL and ideally the mids.
I want to leverage our alphabet. I've never considered self-researching fishing (probably not sailing either). Any time anyone ever discussed the possibility of self-researching BW, I just ignored it.
RE: chops. They are the best way to win wonders races. If we are planning GLH and/or Mids in Orleans/Paris, then I'm against chopping there now. Those are our LC's. If you want to plant a 3rd city and chop away, no problem.
I'd like to see us build the settler asap once we know that we can get a T63 mathematics. I'd even look to turn off the scientists on T62 if we can get away with it.
Completing Mathematics is a sure thing by t63 at 100% Research and -3 Wpt deficit with 16W in the treasury. That is unless we settle a city on t62 or earlier. We can't complete and settle a third city before t62, so Math by t63 is easy to achieve.
I'd like to produce that settler in paris asap, with a forest chop to boot. I'd like a spy build in Paris (with a 2nd forest chop perhaps) and then we can go back to getting the academy. I think it is more important to settle more cities asap and get a spy asap then to get the academy asap.
There are at least decent odds we can get a forest regrow if we chop now. I think there are too many things to build that have a high importance to save those forests for 15 more hammers 40+ turns from now. Producing the 3rd city 5 turns earlier is going to get us 15 more hammers to use easily.
I strongly advise completing the Great Scientist in 8t, now in Paris while slow building the Settler. Our Academy is already quite late, in my opinion. I do agree that we should build several cities (REX) very soon, but we can wait 8t, before committing to maximum REX.
Start another Settler in Orleans after completing TO, which can receive a Forest chop from each Worker to hasten it; this will allow us to preserve Paris' Forests for Bureaucracy. Assuming we can keep Brennus stunted by future Worker steals, he may not be in a position to take the land we covet, so we may not even need the Forest Chops, saving them for The Great Lighthouse.
Sorry, Masonry should not be on the list to trade. The AIs will not trade Masonry until all WW it unlocks are built. However, we can steal it. Sailing can be trough to get in trade too due to unlocking the Lighthouse prerequisite for The Great Lighthouse. Does it even make sense to streal more than Iron Working, given we will need to use the Espionage slider; we have no Espionage multipliers and few Espionage discounts for the Spy.
However, the AI should be willing to trade Fishing, which has virtually no Monopoly value.
I think it is very important that we get an exploratory fishing boat in the water asap. I also think it would be worth researching fishing/sailing/masonry ourselves for a shot at the Great LH.
More input is needed from other Team members. Please speak up about the future of our Civilization whether that be a change in our Grand Strategy or Turn Set Goals and Tactics.
We currently have no Happiness Resources that we can use now. Calendar would unlock Incense and Silk in our culture and Sugar to our West. We also have unclaimed Gems within our reach now. Settling on Wine will give us another +1 Happiness when we complete/acquire Monarchy.
Our Happiness Plan:
We will get +1 Happiness for our Confucian Holy City when we convert to Confucianism. We probably want more than that.
We can try to get Monarchy which will allow +1 from Wine and +1 per garrison unit.
Obviously, extra Happiness will allow our Cities to grow that much more and generate both more Hammers and Commerce. We need a lot of Commerce to reach Future Tech ASAP.
More input is needed from other Team members. Please speak up about the future of our Civilization whether that be a change in our Grand Strategy or Turn Set Goals and Tactics.
Hmmm. What's our goal after Oracle, what do we want, what is our next priorities?
Much depends on what Ramesses II is likely to trade us. If he does tech fishing, are we willing to trade him Math or Code of Laws to get fishing?
Math for sailing might be ok, but that implies we get fishing from somewhere else.
Don't forget the Great Lighthouse requires Masonry too.
I will check the testgame now for possibilities.
Conventional wisdom is that you chop every forest possible if you manage to snag Math. But we have been doing the opposite of rapid expansion so far and a change of direction should be well thought out first.
To me, after oracle, we have more freedom to REX or attack Brennus. Either way because we are underdeveloped in term of ReXing. Attacking Brennus seems best to after getting 1 or 2 more cities.
If we had Masonry, I though oracling Construction would be cool, but CoL->CS is a superior choice to me.
Even more, I am wondering how likely we can capture some of his cities with chariots. If we could kept in check metal units flow, then some surrounding cities are pretty pretty weakly defended.
A real shame stone is within capital culture control.
HA's then I suppose. Brennus has really good lands. And a second highly cottageable city.
Happy cap is another problem too, but if we could capture stone fast, Mids would fix short term the problem.
I am rethinking about the war possibilities and seriously Brennus is so weak to me right now. A get me pants down message is emitted from him every turn. Stupid copper messes this up, rly.
*The following is based on the assumption that we Oracle CoL and get Confucianism.
I see these as our biggest needs going forward, starting with the highest priority:
1. Settlers
2. Happiness
3. Workers
4. Great Scientist/Academy
5. Spy/spies/IW
6. The Pyramids
32. TGL
Settlers
We can get a settler built in Paris on T68 if we pull both GS on T61. Math still comes on time at T63. I think this is a must do. If we start a settler in Orleans on T64, it will arrive in T76.
What are the ways to speed up settler production:
Chopping
Orleans: If we are going to go for TGL, we will have to research Sailing and Masonry ourselves, and possibly fishing too. Chops will have to be used to get TGL, not settlers.
Paris: I can give up a chop for a settler, but I do hear WastinTime loud and clear on the wonder chops. As WastinTime said, the third city can be chopped as much as we can.
Whipping
We are not set up to whip because we don't have granaries in place and have low happy caps. We also don't want to give up one turn of anarchy for only one Civic switch. The only other civic on the horizon is OR if Ramesses researches Monotheism. I think waiting for HR or Bureaucracy is too long to wait for a switch to slavery. We need a third city ASAP to whip
Whip overflow
Once we get slavery, we can try to use whip overflows from granaries, temples, workers or a lighthouse into settlers or TGL (industrious bonus). If we don't whip into settlers, they can be built waiting for the whip anger to abate.
Happiness
This is a tough one. We need to found CoL and switch to Confucianism. This is a second turn of anarchy. +1 Happy.
The missionary really needs to fog bust. I expect Paris to get Confucian very quickly. I sense the fewer cities you have, the faster religion autospreads from the connected Holy City. I am not sure what is coded...
If Eve can find Ramesses, we may be able to establish a trade route with sailing. I am not sure how to tell if our coasts are clear. I think so, but I am not sure. If we get a trade route, he might trade us gold, silver or furs. (Ivory will be too expensive and I think we have all the Gems on our side of the map.) +1 happy.
Considering how slow Ramesses is moving, I doubt he has luxury resources or fur. By the way, Ramesses wants us to admire his Axemen.
Forges. Without forge resources no happiness.
Temples. These are needed for LCs. They counter whip anger instantly. We need asap. +1 Happy
Whipping. Whip away unhappiness, while adding it. This will hurt with the low happy cap.
Workers
Hopefully workers will rain down on Brennus's horses. This looks like the best source. Hopefully he will be slow to pop borders here. Our third city can work in a few workers too.
Great Scientist/Academy
This needs to wait. We were heavy on the early research at the expense of rexing. No we have to rex and wonderbuild while sacrificing research. Unfortunately, if we go for TGL, we can't run at 0% science until we get the Academy.
Spies/IW
They have to wait. This is city 3 or 4 material.
The Pyramids
Easiest to get after CS. Can we afford to wait?
TGL Pros
Obvious Trade route help.
Culture for LC
GM points for Sushi. (We don't want this GM too soon though! We need the GP sooner.)
Fail gold potential.
There is potential for island overseas trade routes.
Cons
This will be a major drain on banked gold that could go to CS.
Sacrificing rex further to build TGL
There are going to be a lot of non-coastal cities.
Conclusions:
We need to play to the Oracle or Oracle fail ASAP.
The only decisions to be made before then:
Do we pull the Scientist in Paris on T61. YES
Where to get Louis for worker steal. Two tiles north of Brennus's horses)
Does Slave start on chop or mine or roads. Chop for settler.
If Monotheism is available on T64, trade for it and revolt to Slavery and OR, then declare state religion of Confucianism. If not strongly consider slavery anyway. Forget TGL. Build settlers, WB, spies, workers, granary, or temple in Orleans. Bank gold until 2 GS are turned on after Paris Settler is built and provide us an Academy.
Fishing
Researching Fishing ourselves could easily mean we meet other civilizations which will allow us to trade for more technologies. If we don't go for the TGL, please please at least let us research fishing. (not to mention it means we can get seafood resources up earlier)
Workboats can also find other resources on the islands which can have profound effect on our strategy. If we find copper for example no more need to worry about early iron working or horseback riding.
Trading mathematics or code of laws to Ramesses for fishing seems like a bad idea to me even if it is an option soon (no guarantee about how soon fishing would be available)
The Great Lighthouse
With so many islands nearby, the Great Lighthouse is worth a bit of sacrifice guys. This is long term game and a hemisphere map, we are going to have very valuable trade routes for quite some time.
I disagree that we will have a lot of non-coastal cities. I see quite a few quality coastal sites. Gems/pigs, wine/pigs, corn/fish, pigs/deer
Worker steals...
We can predict where Brennus's worker is going to be can't we... he probably moved to the copper the same turn we got a ceasefire. Then 4 turns to finish the mine. Can we get back to the copper? sorry away from the game and I've lost track of the turns.
Happiness
A religion and a temple might be a short term solution to happiness. I don't see any need to get monarchy before we can trade for it or before we build the pyramids. Remember we want early temples for the doubled Sistine Chapel culture.
Forest Regrow
If we chop forests with 2 forests adjacent to the tile, what are the odds it regrows in 30 turns?
1/100 for each forest * 30? It could be as high as 60% maybe?
If so I'm willing to chop a few forests around our capital.
Monotheism and another appeal for Great Light House
monotheism trade an exciting possibility. Getting OR seems to make GLH a bit better no? 133 raw hammers (with industrial trait and OR) for +2 trade routes for 5+ early cities for a large part of the game? What has a better Return on hammers than that!?
send missionary down to spread confu to Ramesses? (crazy idea but could be really nice if we can get past Brennus)
Sorry haven't time today to make the substantive post I hoped to make, but rushing out a settler has to be combined with a defense plan for the imminent barb invasion it might trigger. It is very easy to lose the wine city if settled third, and perhaps not easy for it to keep its pasture also...
1. Still 15 cities worldwide.
2. Brennus completed Pottery on T58. His GNP is rock bottom. He'll get IW in 20-25 turns at the soonest, by my estimation.
3. Bibracte built T55 worker, T56 axe, T58 worker. Now it's got 38h in whatever he stopped building when we DoWed him. Tolosa whipped a monument on T58. None of the three cities are building settler/wkrs.
4. Brennus threatens with archers with copper disconnected, despite having 2 axes and a spear!
5. We can follow his two workers by hovering over his various resource tiles and see if they're improved. (copper, stone, pigs, horses, corn, sheep)
6. Ramesses acquired Meditation, the idiot, on T55. He could still finish Fishing before we need it and we could trade PHood for it.
7. Some unknown AI, probably a SH+Religion AI, just jumped from 41 GNP to 59 GNP! I calculated he's probably doing ~30-34bpt at that rate.
8. Some AI is working 13 hpt. Yikes. competition for wonders.
1. Still 15 cities worldwide.
2. Brennus completed Pottery on T58. His GNP is rock bottom. He'll get IW in 20-25 turns at the soonest, by my estimation.
3. Bibracte built T55 worker, T56 axe, T58 worker. Now it's got 38h in whatever he stopped building when we DoWed him. Tolosa whipped a monument on T58. None of the three cities are building settler/wkrs.
4. Brennus threatens with archers with copper disconnected, despite having 2 axes and a spear!
5. We can follow his two workers by hovering over his various resource tiles and see if they're improved. (copper, stone, pigs, horses, corn, sheep)
6. Ramesses acquired Meditation, the idiot, on T55. He could still finish Fishing before we need it and we could trade PHood for it.
7. Some unknown AI, probably a SH+Religion AI, just jumped from 41 GNP to 59 GNP! I calculated he's probably doing ~30-34bpt at that rate.
8. Some AI is working 13 hpt. Yikes. competition for wonders.
Everyone seems to agree on 3rd city at best speed, but not on whether to chop to help it along. Where should our 3rd city go? That might affect how we assign warriors or where we ultimately want our workers the end of this turnset.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
I calculated he's probably doing ~30-34bpt at that rate.
