SGOTM 17 - Plastic Ducks

[kossin]

A note about economy
The GA is currently granting us 77 gpt (74 from tiles, 3 from hammers).
After the initial influx of units once we go back to Slavery, we really have to look after our gold!
Bureaucracy and Vassalage should offer no big difference (free units vs. more commerce).

 

[Doshin]

Churchill will offer 40G for Currency, since that is what it is worth to him. However, if you place 40G on his side of the table, Currency on ours, and ask "what would make this deal work?" he judges the trade according to our standards. We are in financial trouble, but Churchill is not in a charitable mood. Instead, he tries to take advantage of our poor impoverished condition:

Spoiler :

This only occurs with Currency, and so he will be done with the research in one or two turns. Discussion of the mechanics here and here.

Why sabotage the Castle when you could sabotage the walls

Er... good point. Yes, sabotaging the Walls is superior in all regards. TBH, I've not thought about it in enormous detail, and kinda assumed that Castles were more of a hindrance to bombarding.


EDIT: @bestsss I stand corrected 10 turns sounds right.

 

[Duckweed]

The stack for attacking Toku could be as small as ~15 in the South, this stack could get reinforcements from previous Sury's cities easily.

Therefore, about half of the troops in China could be drawn to assemble the SOD to attack Peter (starts with 7 galleons and send reinforcements with galleon bridge).

For English, we only need to throw in ~10 units to keep Warwick, once we capture Satsuma, we could then gift it to Churchill and teleport enough forces for the final hit.

 

[kossin]

@Doshin
Interesting mechanic!

@Duckweed
How does gifting Satsuma help us teleport to Churchill? If anything, it'd be harder to teleport to Churchill.
EDIT: to be clearer - we need to be at peace with Tokugawa to attempt teleportation.

 

[Duckweed]

I assume that we are at war with Toku at that time, if we own Warwick, then the troops in Satsuma could be teleported to Warwick when CB with Churchill, needs test of course. The optimal war progress in my mind would be 3 wars are proceeded in about the same pace. The stack teleported to England last should be the biggest among all.

 

[kossin]

The tiles around Satsuma will be valid teleport location (no Toku culture) after capture. JumpDistance is the main factor, so we're like to be bumped 1 tile south (or north).

 

[Duckweed]

I don't mind razing Satsuma and found a new city on top of it to gain culture tiles immediately. If this does not work, we can always raze Warwick and found a new city 2N of Warwick to make the teleporting work.

 

[kossin]

There is only 1 intercontinental city on this whole map and it's Stone Island, so we can't have both Satsuma (or a new city there) and a city 2N of Warwick.

However, keeping Warwick and settling a new city in place of Satsuma appears to work, there is only 1 danger tile which can be avoided easily (the GW).

Spoiler :

But there's 1 risk here: if Churchill does not accept the city (financial difficulty). In this case, we'd be screwed

 

[Bebekija]

BTW, today I realized why the map is called the Quartermaster's Challenge. It only took me four months.

Then care to explain it to me? I still don't get it....

 

[UnforcedError]

Wouldn't sending a larger stack that can immediately deal with Churchill be better? In that case we don't have to take (keep) Warwick and won't have to rely on teleportation anymore. If we start warring with Toku before we have enough troops in England to finish Churchill our only option to get more of them over there would be setting Kyoto in revolt and taking a cease fire for a turn, right? (EDIT: in case Churchill does not accept the city.)

 

[kossin]

Then care to explain it to me? I still don't get it....

IMO it's a play on words.

First you have quartermaster which means either a re-supplier or a navigator (put broadly)... hence the challenge would be about who can best navigate the maze and keeping supplies.

The other meaning, at least to me, would be about the map division. It's roughly divided into 4 areas. Not of equal size but it's about who wants to be the master of the quarters... probably pushing it a bit much.

Of course, maybe I'm missing it as well

Wouldn't sending a larger stack that can immediately deal with Churchill be better? In that case we don't have to take (keep) Warwick and won't have to rely on teleportation anymore. If we start warring with Toku before we have enough troops in England to finish Churchill our only option to get more of them over there would be setting Kyoto in revolt and taking a cease fire for a turn, right? (EDIT: in case Churchill does not accept the city.)

As I said, this is the safe option and the one I've been thinking about.

Duckweed's is more aimed at the finish line. The faster we have 3 warring fronts, the faster we should win.

Assembling the Peter stack is still a problem in the option we've been discussing since yesterday.

 

[Bebekija]

Wouldn't sending a larger stack that can immediately deal with Churchill be better?

^^This.

Also, I have to admit that I'm a bit confused about all this telportation talk for England. I understand that we plan to put a stack S of Satsuma (still 1S of the whales?) to teleport to Warwick and take it.

But then the next moves are really mysterious to me? You talk of gifting the city back, DOWing Toku, etc... and I don't get it anymore. Mainly, how do you expect to send reinforcements to English territory? When we close borders with Toku, ther ewill be no opening back for quite a while....no???

 

[kossin]

1. Teleport stack using 1S of whale in Toku-land
2. (have not checked this) teleport to northern Churchill land
3. DoW Churchill
4. Capture Warwick
5. continue warring for a bit
6. DoW Tokugawa
7. capture and raze Satsuma with another stack
8. settle a city in place of Satsuma
9. Cease Fire with Churchill
10. Gift new city to Churchill -> troops teleported near Warwick
11. re-DoW Churchill with new troops

 

[UnforcedError]

We may have to keep the revolt option open just in case Churchill is in financial trouble and doesn't take the city (I assume we don't want to risk gifting him lots of gold?) So EPs have to be switched to Toku once we have Beijing.

 

[bestsss]

worry not, he would have way too few cities to face financial trouble. meh I had some other stuff to post but my girlfriend's sister has b-day and I'm making cocktails...

 

[kossin]

worry not, he would have way too few cities to face financial trouble. meh I had some other stuff to post but my girlfriend's sister has b-day and I'm making cocktails...

We'll all await your words of wisdom!

I can't play tonight (weird schedule today) but I'll try to follow discussions.

Maybe we can get things going tomorrow... I'd sure like to as I'm away for the weekend as well

 

[UnforcedError]

Assembling the Peter stack is still a problem in the option we've been discussing since yesterday.

I though we were already set on something like this:
N stack to Churchill (reinforcement if need be: Warwick - Satsuma)
majority of S stack to Peter (reinforcement: our core cities)
remaining S stack + units from Sury's cities to Toku (reinforcement: Khmer + Chinese cities)

 

[Bebekija]

I had some other stuff to post but my girlfriend's sister has b-day and I'm making cocktails...

Please don't open the save tonight.....

 

[Bebekija]

1. Teleport stack using 1S of whale in Toku-land
2. (have not checked this) teleport to northern Churchill land
3. DoW Churchill
4. Capture Warwick
5. continue warring for a bit
6. DoW Tokugawa
7. capture and raze Satsuma with another stack
8. settle a city in place of Satsuma
9. Cease Fire with Churchill
10. Gift new city to Churchill -> troops teleported near Warwick
11. re-DoW Churchill with new troops

Ok thanks I think I've got it now.
So if we close borders with Toku to teleport the stack in northern English terriotry, we will lose our access to the Western canal, won't we?
This means that we must get all of our troops West of Silver Canal before we close borders with Toku, right? Or do you intend to DOW right after closed borders so we can keep on sending troops?

If I'm right on this issue, then doesn't it favor delaying the teleport action until we're finished with Qin and ready to declare on Toku? It would give us some time to amass more troops for Churchill, enough to take care of him in one go, while sending our first stacks to Peter?
How many troops can we muster in the next few turns? How long does it take to get them to Silver Canal?
Also, on a minor subject, what is the status of the galleon chain? I see a couple of galleons that are not on their designated location, and every one is empty. Is there a specific reason? Just wondering, not criticising...

 

[Bebekija]

I though we were already set on something like this:
N stack to Churchill (reinforcement if need be: Warwick - Satsuma)
majority of S stack to Peter (reinforcement: our core cities)
remaining S stack + units from Sury's cities to Toku (reinforcement: Khmer + Chinese cities)

I believe the problem with this course of action was that war on Peter will be significantly delayed compared to the other 2 fronts, so it's suboptimal for a conquest game. The most favorable outcome would be to finsh all 3 of them on the same turn or close to that.

Also, but apparently this is just me, I still can't see how we can *reliably* and *regularly* send reinforcements in England via teleportation. It seems dramatically tedious and subject to mistakes to me.
Which brings me to ...
How much of a commitment is this teleportation action? I mean, do we really have to prepare now for this possibility or can we wait till we're 100% sure that there is no sea access to Churchill before we start planning for teleportation?