SGOTM 18 - Fifth Element

[BLubmuz]

1st turn PPP

Move Warrior 1NW
Move Settler 1N (saving other half of move for after discussion)
Move Scout 2NW

Stop. Save and post a screenie.

It's what we decided for the warrior.
The only smart move for the settler, which actually saves 1.5 moves. He can move 3 more tiles along the road or 2 more outside, because of the residual move.
Good for the scout.

About the Capital site choice:
I do not think that goin' too close to the Pad is a good idea, see that C6 WE. BTW without siege or some pike that WE is a real problem.
In any case it can even be on another landmass. While the base map is Great Plains, it has been heavily modified, so it can even look like continents, flat wrap. No circumnav bonus here.

The Legendary Pad can be the limiting factor of this game.
More later.

 

[BLubmuz]

We need 50,000 culture in Swingers Pad to win the game. Now may be a good time to think about how to achieve this objective.

Yes, this objective can be the bottleneck of this game, since we can't use Culture bombs there.
But we can use espionage.

Choice of the VC:

a) If we decide to go for culture (the remaining 2 LCs can be bombed as usual) we can probably use less spies, thus avoid to accumulate too much EPs.
b) if we go for Space, we need a lot of EPs and some modern WW there
c) i discard Diplo, but i can be proved wrong.

Just for the new members Space is my favourite VC, but culture can be a valid alternative this time. Actually we went for culture in 2 of the latest games, but with poor results.

A reminder for the pre-buuilt WWs:
Mali - ToA
Goldmember - GLH+Colossus
Portugal - Hagia Sophia
Mongols - Oracle
India - SH
Evil - Chichen Itza and (soon) Pyramids

 

[enKage]

Awful set of AIs. Classic backstabbers and warlovers and expansive Joao boosted with Hagia Sophia. India - Gandhi or untrustworthy Asoka?

 

[Shaandore]

Space won't be competitive date wise if my hunch is correct. Culture is very viable, the espionage mission is a much cheaper way to get a city to legendary if done right. We will obviously look up some mechanics about this. (and previous PD SGOTM thread) Compared to SGOTM16, we don't need to expand that much so we could probably get some early culture buildings to have a decent culture date.

We should get moving as soon as we have an agreement on initial moves. (Do we?) Not many objections since posting the PPP.

 

[unclethrill]

Agreed on moving soon.

Couple changes: I opened the save and
1. if I'm correct, the scout can only move 1 NW onto the hill. He will not be able to go NW NW.
2. The settler has the navigation promotion. He has a 3 movement. With the road, he can move 6 spaces (if the road goes that far). So I would like to move him 2 paces up the road.
3. No change for the warrior. 1NW

I will play and post some screenies for further discussion in the next couple hours unless I get a stop message.

Also, I see that BLubmuz is right about the WW. Looks like most of the early ones are gone.

 

[unclethrill]

Okay, gonna get my computer out and play the listed moves.

 

[Folket]

Hello!

Slightly more then a week before I returned but I'm checking in now.

Please make sure we do not loose when they capture our last city.

If someone can create a matrix with diplo modifiers that would be great. We should not rule out diplo victory before we know how hard it is going to be. If noone else want to do it. Make a screenshot every turn on the screen that shows all +/- and relations and I will compile a matrix when I get home. (it is called glance I think)

As for the pad we should leave it for Evil to put culture in and later spam spies.

Can we get screenshots of the demographics? It could tell us how large army Evil has. i.e. if he has more techs and units that we do not see.

Why run fembot NW? Would not NE make more sense? Try to see if there is a landpath to us.

 

[Folket]

A reminder for the pre-buuilt WWs:
Mali - ToA
Goldmember - GLH+Colossus
Portugal - Hagia Sophia
Mongols - Oracle
India - SH
Evil - Chichen Itza and (soon) Pyramids

For someone that can't look at the save. Can you give me the nations, leaders and diplomatic status. (i.e wars,vassals or PAs)

 

[unclethrill]

So the settler still has 2 full movement points left so we can explore some more and maybe still settle this turn.

I like 1N of where he is from what we can see so far. We would lose some tiles to the desert and mtns but get wheat, marble and gold and a couple FP.

 

[unclethrill]

Here is the info that Folket wanted.

 

[Folket]

Space won't be competitive date wise if my hunch is correct. Culture is very viable, the espionage mission is a much cheaper way to get a city to legendary if done right. We will obviously look up some mechanics about this. (and previous PD SGOTM thread) Compared to SGOTM16, we don't need to expand that much so we could probably get some early culture buildings to have a decent culture date.

I do not think space will be good either. But I'm leaning towards diplomatic. We could grow one friend and just make sure someone he/she does not like builds the UN. I do not want to use hammers to get culture buildings when we are at war with who I consider the worst opponent in the game, who also will have two+ cities and wonders. We can avoid liberalism if needed.

 

[Folket]

So the settler still has 2 full movement points left so we can explore some more and maybe still settle this turn.

I like 1N of where he is from what we can see so far. We would lose some tiles to the desert and mtns but get wheat, marble and gold and a couple FP.

It looks like we have the mobility promotion on the settler. We should be able to settle plains hill this turn. Plains hill have my vote.

I will probably have a look in a few days. Good luck.

 

[enKage]

Possible settling positions:

A riverside desert
+ 5 floodplains, usufel if we want to produce more culture
not wasting turn
it is a desert so we dont lose floodplain
- 2F1H1C start no defensive bonus (but do we really need it in capital while barbs are off?


B plain hill
+ 2H start
- losing a turn

C marble
+ 3H start
leaving floodplains for other city
- wasting improved tile
having to build worker before growing, otherwise we will work unimproved tile

Time to count how many tutrns it will take to make a worker

 

[unclethrill]

Possible settling positions:



B plain hill
+ 2H start
- losing a turn

Time to count how many tutrns it will take to make a worker

We have a road and the navigation bonus on the settler. We can settle on T0 on the PH if that is what we want.

 

[enKage]

Do we need imediate worker?
We have agriculture so can irrigate floodplains until we research the wheel or mining.

Worker building:
Spot A
9 turns without growing
or 4 turns to grow and 6 turns (better)

Spot B (plainhill)
8 turns
or 4 turns to grow and 5 turns

Spot C (marble)
7 turns at size 1


Spot C gives fastest worker and 1 turn after worker is ready borders will pop, so we work gold from turn 11, still good

Spts B and A can grow first to size 2 and build worker then - worker is 1 turn later comparing to if it built it at size 1 and 2-3 turns later then settling on marble

 

[enKage]

OK, it gives 2H start, but there are mountains and plainhills around. 1NW is probably grassland.


On the other hand desert tile has no forests tochop, marble has quite a lot.

For me all these spots are reasonable and equal. Riverside desert gives better lategame city IMO but others can spawn worker and units early on faster. I am not able to decide and will leave it for you guys

 

[Shaandore]

Now would be a good time to get a test save so we can compare these sites.

If nobody has the time, I will do it this evening.

I'm happy to see the gold and food, we will have a decent capital after all

EDIT: That marble is no coincidence. Some nice marble wonders are not taken yet, it will be a strong play to get them.

EDIT2: Good analysis, enKage! You are right that this might be a time when worker first is not the best move. We will need to run some tests though so we can continue in a way which we think is the best possible.

 

[enKage]

i am off test games --> HOOOLIDAYY!

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

I'm here! Late, but here... work has been real busy, as usual in the summer.

MF

 

[Shaandore]

Guys, sorry, another promise I didn't keep. Does anybody have at least a half-ready test save? I could start from that.