SGOTM 23 - Phoenix Rising

[elitetroops]

Sounds like suicide. Best to upload, I think.

 

[Gumbolt]

Uploading now.

So questions for team? What to do with Russians??

Do we just use archer to block off warrior? We could whip a chariot? Hmmm. Should of spotted this. Sorry.

That is me done for tonight.

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 300 BC to 250 BC:

Turn 103, 300 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Rostov!
Turn 103, 300 BC: Paris has grown to size 14.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Stoned Horse has grown to size 9.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Stoned Horse can hurry Maceman for 2⇴ with 40ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 49 turns.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Furry Fish has grown to size 5.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Furry Fish can hurry Maceman for 2⇴ with 25ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 43 turns.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Wheatos has grown to size 6.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Wheatos can hurry Maceman for 2⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 50 turns.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Alexandria has grown to size 8.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Alexandria has become unhappy.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Thebes has grown to size 9.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Athens has grown to size 5.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Gemmy has grown to size 3.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Jerusalem has grown to size 5.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Jerusalem can hurry Archer for 1⇴ with 25ℤ overflow, 6ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 24 turns.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Hamburg has grown to size 6.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Munich has grown to size 4.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Cologne has grown to size 2.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Cologne can hurry Work Boat for 1⇴ with 27ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 103, 300 BC: GoldCoast has grown to size 2.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Memphis has grown to size 2.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Yaroslavl' has grown to size 5.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Yaroslavl' can hurry Archer for 1⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 103, 300 BC: St. Petersburg has grown to size 10.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Rostov has been pacified.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Rostov has grown to size 4.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Moscow has grown to size 9.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Darius I has 70 gold available for trade.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Saladin won't trade Clam
Turn 103, 300 BC: Darius I has 70 gold available for trade.
Turn 103, 300 BC: You are the worst enemy of Stalin.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Gandhi.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Kublai Khan.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Churchill, Darius I, Mao Zedong.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Stalin
Turn 103, 300 BC: Darius I has 70 gold available for trade.
Turn 103, 300 BC: You are the worst enemy of Stalin.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Gandhi.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Kublai Khan.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Churchill, Darius I, Mao Zedong.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Stalin
Turn 103, 300 BC: Christianity has spread in Thebes.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 20 ℤ for Gemmy.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Furry Fish will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Athens will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Gemmy will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Hamburg will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Munich will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Berlin will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Cologne will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 103, 300 BC: GoldCoast will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 103, 300 BC: You have trained a Maceman in Stoned Horse. Work has now begun on Christian Missionary.
Turn 103, 300 BC: You have trained a Maceman in Furry Fish. Work has now begun on a Forge.
Turn 103, 300 BC: You have trained a Maceman in Wheatos. Work has now begun on a Maceman.
Turn 103, 300 BC: You have trained a Archer in Jerusalem. Work has now begun on a Worker.
Turn 103, 300 BC: You have trained Christian Missionary in Munich. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 103, 300 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Cologne. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 103, 300 BC: You have trained a Archer in Yaroslavl'. Work has now begun on a Worker.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Darius I adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 103, 300 BC: Gandhi adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 103, 300 BC: Saladin has founded Kufah.

Turn 104, 275 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Rostov!
Turn 104, 275 BC: Paris will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stoned Horse can hurry Christian Missionary for 2⇴ with 18ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 58 turns.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Alexandria has become happy.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Athens has grown to size 6.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Athens can hurry Forge for 3⇴ with 24ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 26 turns.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Gemmy has grown to size 4.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Hamburg has grown to size 7.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Hamburg can hurry Lighthouse for 1⇴ with 6ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Munich can hurry Archer for 2⇴ with 17ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 34 turns.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Berlin has grown to size 6.
Turn 104, 275 BC: GoldCoast has grown to size 3.
Turn 104, 275 BC: St. Petersburg will be pacified on the next turn.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Rostov can hurry Worker for 2⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 104, 275 BC: The borders of Berlin are about to expand.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Paris will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 104, 275 BC: St. Petersburg will be pacified on the next turn.
Turn 104, 275 BC: You are the worst enemy of Stalin.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Gandhi.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Kublai Khan.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Churchill, Darius I, Mao Zedong.
Turn 104, 275 BC: The borders of Berlin are about to expand.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Stalin
Turn 104, 275 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 13 (Paris) (7.80) vs Stalin's Swordsman (5.71)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Combat Odds: 79.5%
Turn 104, 275 BC: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 104, 275 BC: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 104, 275 BC: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin's Swordsman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 13 (Paris) has defeated Stalin's Swordsman!
Turn 104, 275 BC: Your Horse Archer 13 (Paris) has destroyed a Swordsman!
Turn 104, 275 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (Wheatos) (7.20) vs Stalin's Axeman (4.76)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Combat Odds: 90.4%
Turn 104, 275 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 104, 275 BC: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 104, 275 BC: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin's Axeman is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin's Axeman is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (Wheatos) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin's Axeman is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin's Axeman is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (Wheatos) is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin's Axeman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (Wheatos) has defeated Stalin's Axeman!
Turn 104, 275 BC: Your Horse Archer 19 (Wheatos) has destroyed a Axeman!
Turn 104, 275 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Yaroslavl'.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Paris will grow to size 15 on the next turn.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stoned Horse will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Wheatos will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Memphis will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 104, 275 BC: The borders of Berlin have expanded!
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin's Spearman (4.40) vs Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (Wheatos) (2.63)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Combat Odds: 96.4%
Turn 104, 275 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 104, 275 BC: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 104, 275 BC: (Combat: -100%)
Turn 104, 275 BC: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (Wheatos) is hit for 23 (45/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (Wheatos) is hit for 23 (22/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (Wheatos) is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 104, 275 BC: Stalin's Spearman has defeated Napoleon's Horse Archer 19 (Wheatos)!
Turn 104, 275 BC: While defending, your Horse Archer 19 (Wheatos) was destroyed by a Russian Spearman!

Turn 105, 250 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Moscow!
Turn 105, 250 BC: Paris has grown to size 15.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Paris has become unhappy.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Stoned Horse has grown to size 8.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Wheatos has grown to size 5.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Wheatos can hurry Maceman for 2⇴ with 4ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 58 turns.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Alexandria has become unhappy.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Jerusalem can hurry Worker for 2⇴ with 22ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 22 turns.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Memphis has grown to size 3.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Yaroslavl' can hurry Worker for 1⇴ with 24ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 105, 250 BC: St. Petersburg has been pacified.
Turn 105, 250 BC: St. Petersburg can hurry Library for 5⇴ with 12ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Christianity has spread in Paris.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Christianity has spread in St. Petersburg.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Berlin.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Berlin.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 16 ℤ for Berlin.

 

[elitetroops]

I'm out for the night as well, can have a look tomorrow.

Maybe a cease fire could make Stalin send units out of Novgorod.

 

[Gumbolt]

I won't be around till tomorrow afternoon. Most decisions this turn have been made. A few whips to decide. I think I followed plan.

Oh Mish spread to St Peters and Paris all went well.

Were slowly moving forward but least were playing on.

 

[Rusten]

Alright, no worries. Good progress!

If we DoW on Joao, will his warrior be bumped 1W or 1SW? If 1SW then we need to do something about it otherwise we lose 2 workers. Maybe 3 maces is enough and we can send the morale one to kill off the warrior? Otherwise we need to wait a turn before DoW.

Taking Novgorod seems a big ask now. I think we should rather aim for Yakutsk and Smolensk and then sign a cease fire. We can scout Smolensk this turn with HA 13 --> send enough units to take it --> send the rest towards Yakutsk and see if we get that one as well.
Smolensk is going to have corn and can loan cows from Moscow (Moscow has enough food already as it can take the wheat from St Pete). Definitely worth grabbing even if size 1 right now.

 

[Gumbolt]

Grabbing small cities at size 1 is also a big ask. Very frustrating and adds to our costs. We can certainly fork Novograd and his 2nd city.

Morale mace for warrior seems only choice.

We will need an army for London. He has 4 archers, axe and spear now.

Have a good night all.

A city micro thoughts for tomorrow would be great. I can move the HA tomorrow afternoon and post a picture.

 

[elitetroops]

What's up with the galley outside Istanbul? It hasn't moved at all in 2 turns? That HA should be outside Hamburg by now.

I thought HA stack was supposed to fork Yakutsk. With stack where it is, I'm having a hard time seeing any really good options to proceed with this war. We should take out that spear on flatland, C3+shock has winning odds. (Don't bait spears with wounded units btw, that's just asking for them to be killed without causing any damage.)

We could probably take Smolensk next turn, but with Novgorod in place, that city will suck. So will Moscow. Hard to tell how fast we can have enough units in place to take Novgorod.

The warrior should scout Lisbon and Oporto before we make further decisions on Portugal war.

Thebes should run Engineer instead of one plains mine. Still gets Colossus in 3 turns.

Alexandria must whip Courthouse this turn.

St.Pete shouldn't shrink when archer enters city. Whip library next turn for border pop 4 turns from now. Monastery would have same effect for one less pop, but library probably more useful. Not sure what to do in St.Pete after the library.

 

[Gumbolt]

I have no idea why I didn't think to fork the cities first time. The galley with HA was in place because we were worried about the chariot and archer. Should of probably just unloaded it.

Yes to CH whip and Library whip.
Engineer in Thebes too.

Mace with extra movement for warrior but scout lisbon first.

We can move those 2 new HA into Moscow this turn and form a stack of 8 to fork next turn. See what the Ai does.

1 more farm for memphis or windmills neat Thebes??

Whip worker in Jerusalem.
Whip mace in Whetos.
Treb in SH?? Seems a good build.

If Yarl runs forest tile it can complete worker this turn.

If we unload the HA this turn it might reach the warrior in time instead? The mace can sit on the 2 workers. So HA attacks warrior following turn and Mace arrives in lisbon in time pending warrior combat.

It's possible a lot of Novograd defenders might move on Moscow?

So HA13 scout or take out spear??

 

[Rusten]

St Petersburg is capable of doing whatever we need it to be doing. Very flexible city with differing strengths. Where's our bottleneck? If we feel it's conquest then we could workshop it. If we want research it can run a bunch of scientists. In a vacuum I'd probably go the research path, although it does leave a bunch of grassland tiles idle.
Either way we should whip library -> whip granary. Then forge if production or chop CH --> monasteries (whille growing) if science.

 

[Gumbolt]

Just a second thought monst in Paris for 10% science after market. I think St Peters for science. It will certainly run specialists during golden age.

We have a worker by gold coast waiting for a border pop.

 

[elitetroops]

The galley with HA was in place because we were worried about the chariot and archer.

No we were not. And even if we were, what did you expect to accomplish by leaving our HA far away from any of our cities? Your plan said galley 2NW 2 turns ago, please stick to the plan.

Rusten warrior should go 1S->1SE to reveal both Lisbon and Oporto. From there he should teleport 3N when we close borders and can get back into Wheatos with last move, in case it would become unhappy without MP.

Yaro should take over a forest from Hamburg or St.Pete to finish worker in 1. Probably from Hamburg, they can work coast instead.

GoldCoast worker can start on windmill or riverside workshop. I think windmill is better, but loses turn to movement. City should whip granary, I think in a couple of turns.

 

[Rusten]

xpost: Gold coast worker should farm riverside plains. It's a good tile during GAs (it also finishes in time for the border pop). Next turn this city whips granary btw.

edit: Not sure if whip next turn or now meant after next turn, my thinking was to whip away the poor tile, but maybe it's better to wait another turn. IDK.

 

[Gumbolt]

Paris market.
FF - forge? Do we whip something into this??
SH treb - whip following turn. Although a Mace would give almost a full 30H OF. Then allowing a treb. Hmmm.
Wheatos whip mace.
Berlin as per plan. Whip HA next turn into MOM and complete 3 more chops.
St Peters - Whip library and granary
Mosciw - revolt.
Athens Forge. Grow on food for now.
Gemmy - LH
GC - Granary whip in 2 turns. - LH
Alexandria - whip CH - LH.
Thebes - Use engineer. Colossus
Memphis - Slow build granary? Can we whip before golden age? One more farm.
Cologne - LH??
Rostov - Chop granary.
Hamburg Library. Needs a chop?
Munich Forge - Grow city.
Jeruslaem - Worker - whip - forge? Looks a nice production city.
Berlin MOM - 2-3 turn to completion.
Hamburg - Library
yarl 1T worker. Then worker again.


So double chop granary in Rostov. Isabella needs to head south.
New worker can help chop library in hamburg.
New worker in Rostov helps chop.
Warrior moves sound fine. 1S->1SE
The HA13 combat vs scout? Will moving it 1S get city visibility? Then it could do both?
Farm plains near gold coast. Whip in 2 turns.
Forest to Yaro from hamburg work caost.
Whip worker in Jerusalem.
Whip mace in Whetos.
Treb in SH?? Seems a good build.
Yes to CH whip and Library whip.
Engineer in Thebes too.

Galley moves towards Cologne and HA moves from cologne towards warrior. Missed that!

Need to agree plan for Russia. I think I want to fork northern city and see if his troops leave the city to attack us.

Archer 4 2E.

Updated

 

[elitetroops]

GoldCoast: Cannot whip this turn. Whip in 2 turns seems better than whip next turn. Whip in 2 turns and we can complete lighthouse 1 turn earlier while regrowth is just as fast. Lighthouse would complete same turn it grows to pop 3. This is assuming that we want a lighthouse as next build. 1 turn earlier lighthouse makes up for the one lost food from whipping one turn later.

 

[Rusten]

Whip in 2 turns sounds best then. LH sounds good.

Stalin has a worker roading north of St Pete. Could we grab this with a HA if we send Isabella to road 1NE of St Pete (grab it using road the turn it completes).
This would slow down Rostov granary though. If we send a second worker we can grab it next turn.

Reiterating what ET said: Yaroslavl' needs a forest from Hamburg to finish worker in 1T. Then another worker (whip 4-2).

Munich archer can go 2E and stand between cities. Then it can move into whichever city needs it first later (Berlin, Hamburg or Munich).

AFK for ~20-30 mins.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Good going, Gumbolt (and team) ! Thanks for taking up the playing.
I've difficulties freeing up time for the game. Should get better from tomorrow.


@ Russia :
Since he's in a war with KK, a cease-fire could induce him to move his units away from our borders.
Overall, I think we need stronger units. If we go with HAs only, we'll suffer many losses. A couple of either Trebs/Maces would supplement greatly our force. With Caste incoming, it matters to minimize casualties.

 

[Gumbolt]

I like the worker steal plan for Isabella. She is 1t from even starting the road.

I updated plan above. We need a more informed Russian plan. I have hinted at one earlier to get 8 HA outside Yarl? Any improvements to this?

Yeah I agree with Bic at present the HA war seems to be about just grabbing key cities but it also means high losses. This is partly due to fact Russians started with 3 cities. Hence why 3 now have/had city walls. Also not helped by way Russians were given double Iron.

2-3 treb/1-2 mace from some border cities would really sway this war. Even a xbow gives us a unit Russia has no real answer to. If we can take Novograd with HA we should at least try.

Knights here would allow us to continue a 2mp war. Were many turns from this. The danger is our war machine will gradually come to a grinding halt. A ceasefire might allow Russia to send all his units towards Mongols. I still think giving mongols construction is somewhat useful.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

@ Berlin :

My guess is bic has used an extra grassland mine here. We don't have one to use.

Yes, my bad, I counted the extra grass mine before the city had its border pop. Working Engineer instead works just fine.

Berlin is due to be whipped on T105.

Typo ? HA whip on t105 loses many chop hammers. Whip happens on t106.

 

[elitetroops]

HA shouldn't drop on forest deer. Next turn galley moves into Cologne and HA moves out from there. HA is 1 tile closer to Russia. This one tile allows it to attack Smolensk or Novgorod one turn earlier.

 

[Gumbolt]

Yes it was a typo. I am follwoing your Berlin plan. Not gonna go HA now with 100+ hammers invested.

Elite what would you do with Russia???

Looking at the 9 cities near Russia - Unless were chopping units chance of a mace or treb are virtually zero.

We have 19 cities. Only 2 are producing units? Hmmmm.

Rostov has 12-13 forest. What could we do with this??? That is 2-3 trebs? Notre Dame?? If this was a fast conquest game I would be spamming units. Okay we need RR and steam power. Shouldn't change the game plan hugely. Are we building too many buildings?? Or will units follow in next few turns? With caste I am not so sure.