SGOTM2 Germany - Team Alamo

[alamo]

I just took a look at the 1465AD save. Here are some observations:

Japan has Fukushima again, apparently.
Japan also has rubber near Echizen, on the island near home.
We have oil near 30 already hooked up.
We need to trade some lux to Joan and Cathy.
Liz is down to 2 towns, and likely to be down to just Reading soon.
Japan has pop of 162, while China has 107 (we have 664).

It appears that Japan is on the offensive against China, as there are Japanese cav visible but no Chinese troops.

I'm not sure that any special attention will be needed. A RoP with Japan may be helpful to beat down Mao a bit.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Wow, Japan must have been very busy in 1465 (I didn't check that turn). China killed more Japanese cavs than vice versa during my turns, but all the fighting was done in China's territory.

That is all very, very good news though! How did you get those population numbers?!?

 

[Cuivienen]

MapStat?

Anyway, just from my experience during my turns, China was losing badly for a long time as, despite our RoP with them, Japan seemed much more capable of pouring troops south through former Indian territory (admittedly, this is because ours borders had yet to expand in the area). I seriously doubt that China will be able to inflict any real damage on Japan -- Japan is much stronger.

 

[Shoe35]

1465AD Turn 0: looked things over

1470AD Turn 1: Builds, start hospitals. Disband new cav in unproductive cities

1475AD Turn 2: More of the same: Trade The Corp to Russia, Japan, China for 320 gold and 80 gpt plus world map. I thought we could use the cash flow.

IBT: China takes Izumi from the Japanese. Japan and China each lost cavs in battles. Motorized Transport -> Flight (4 at –76)

1480AD Turn 3: More of the same.

IBT China destroys Japans Army.

1485AD Turn 4: Trade replaceable parts to Japan for 80 gold and 27gpt. It also brings them to tech parody with China. Building Panzers.

1490AD Turn 5: Trade refining to Japan and China for gems, wm, 21gpt and a lump sum that I forgot. More building

IBT Japan attacks Liz, Liz suffers no losses. Japan and China trade shots.

1495AD Turn 6: Nothing exciting

1500AD Turn 7: Flight -> radio Research to 80% Lux to 0% Markets and MM to minimize impact. Radio in 4 at –74, 01 Berlin Battle Field Med.

IBT: China give ROP +5gpt for ROP, ROP with Joan and Liz

1505AD Turn 8: Moving, building, RR and cutting Jungles, other improvements

1510AD Turn 9: Same, Trade Communism to Joan for WM, 20gold, and 12 gpt.

1515AD Turn 10: More of the same.

Score 3192


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Alamo_SG002_AD1515_01.SAV

It looked as if Japan was taking the bigger beating during my turns, it also looks as if the fight is shifting North. China also took one of Japans cities during my turns.

 

[alamo]

Sounds good, Shoe35. Time to arm to the teeth for the blitzkrieg!

We're getting close to Fission, but China is not far behind. Methinks we will have to prepare for a China campaign.

RoP with Japan may help even out the war.

Next Player
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SensOfWthr
alamo
Cuivienen
bradleyfeanor
Shoe35

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Great turns, Shoe!

I assume neither China nor Japan started building a wonder on your turns Shoe?

I hope we can avoid attacking China. Would giving Japan a corrupt city or two (in a secure location) tip the balance and help us avoid going to war with the Chinese? It is a distasteful idea, but I think it is preferable to war with Mao. I fear we may end up in a vote stalemate if we go to war with him.

Panzers should be fun: too bad we only need to defend and take one city with them. We should be sure to have many Panzers in the Japanese city that builds the UN in order to avoid war weariness. Whenever possible, we want to attack to keep the Japanese out of the city, not defend (which gives War Weariness). I expect we will also need a ton of them in order to avoid a flip, because we won't be able to reduce cultural pressure by taking the surrounding cities.

An outside possibility is developing for our endgame. It is only a slight chance, but could be wonderful: Joan has been building Shakespeare for a while. Wouldn't it be sweet if we could get HER to build the UN for us? If we let our agreements with her expire, we could wipe her off the map in one turn...

Could you investigate the city that is building Shakespeare Sesn, to see if it is even a possibility?

@Cuivienen: Mapstat! I forgot we were playing PTW and could still use it--I have gotten too used to Conquests. Do you happen to know if CrpSuite is legal to use for GOTM/SGOTM?

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Well, I see the save, but I'm up in two other sg's and I have an Aerosmith concert to attend tonight, so if Alamo is bored before Friday evening .....

Interesting idea about the French. We should probably investigate the city first, but if viable, twould be nice. It does look more and more like China will be our opponent if we don't trim them down...

 

[alamo]

Ok, I can take a turn tonight. Have fun, and watch out for the dude that looks like a lady

Joan building the UN would be great, if it doesn't take too long.

Got it!

 

[alamo]

1515AD State of the World

Joan and Cathy building Shakespears - investigate for 125g. Due after 14 turns in Besacon / 59 in Novgorod - both size 5. We could have it in 1 turn (more happies)! I will decide when to grab it by the end of my turn. Sci/Lux to 70/0 for Radio in 1. China is clearing Japanese from our continent - maybe we'll get a culture flip. Sign RoP with Japan - Toku is polite now (the fool). I go ahead and give him steel for 20g. Any reason for Advanced flight? It was selected as the research target. Japanese longbows no longer threatening Reading - whew! Richtoffen is safely at home. Looks like water crossing should be from Hastings to Hyderabad. Move a couple of troops off a mountain to move to island. 2 panzer armies created, and another due next turn!

IBT: Get Fission for free! Start computers. Trade maps w/Cathy.

1520AD(1) - Can build pentagon now! Move transports to designated crossing - rename for boat hopping. Gift techs to Fission to Toku for a song - Atom +Combust +Elect +Flight +MassProd +Radio +Moto +FISSION. If he doesn't build then I'll form a panzer line to slow the war. Shakespears is pointless, so I'll just build it and we can rush SETI. Berlin has Shakespears in 3.

IBT: Joan wants MPP - not yet! No wonder build

1530AD(2) - Switch a bunch of size 12's to hospital. Form Panzer line between Japan and China.

IBT: Last few troops fight. Berlin completes Shakespears - starts Battlefield Med. No wonder build.

1535AD(3) - Pollution starting to be a nuisance.

IBT: Still no wonder.

1540AD(4) - Gift lux to Joan and Cathy. Trade lux to Mao. 1st Channel crossing complete - 8 panzers from forge to battle in 1 move (if there was a battle)!

IBT: Mao wants MPP - how about a map instead? Pentagon complete - 4 panzer armies! No wonder.

1545AD(5) - Sci/Lux to 40/0 for Computers in 1.

IBT: Start Ecology - Mass Transit for pollution towns!

1550AD(6) - Sci/Lux to 80/0 for Ecol in 6. Richtoffen hurries SETI in top sci city - Berlin.

IBT: Nada

1555AD(7) - Berlin builds SETI - starts Lab. Will build labs as panzers complete.

IBT: China takes Norwich. Japan wants more for wines - no more techs! Just trade Ivory.

1560AD(8) - Sci/Lux to 70/0 for Ecol in 3.

IBT: England makes peace w/Japan, finally. Whole bunch of WLTLD's end - not sure why now and not last turn.

1565AD(9) - Berlin starts Battlefield Medicine, again. Sci/Lux to 60/0.

IBT: Japanese warrior attacks - why bother?

1570AD(10) - Some temples/cathedrals build for more happies.

I should have given Fission to Joan instead of Toku! Still no UN building - what's the deal? Japan has had Fission for 9 turns! Should we just take out Mao? At least in SMAC you could arbitrate a peace treaty. Mao has a MPP w/Russia, so he may be waiting for that to expire.

The channel crossing is from Hastings to Hydrabad, across the map boundary. You should be able to move all new panzers into battle on the same turn.

German troops separate the warring factions.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Nice turns Alamo, but OH I wish you had given Fission to Joan before building Shakespeare.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

What are the land/pop numbers for Japan and China now? Do we need to adjust our plans accordingly?

I've got it, and will *hopefully* get to it tonight.

 

[alamo]

Yep, I didn't dream that Japan would dawdle with wonder building. Maybe if we started the UN it would light a fire under Tokugawa.

China just captured some piddling towns, so I bet Japan is still second in pop. I'll check later.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Hope Aerosmith was great, Sesn! It would be nice if you played tonight, but, heaven forbid, don't let it interfere with any Friday night drinking!

Alamo, I noticed you replied in the GOTM32 forum regarding Sir Pleb and his diplo/AW victory goal. His statement to the effect of "once you take enough of an AIs cities they will NEVER like you and will block you in a vote" has me more than a little worried, to say the least. So what do you think about that "capture a settler" idea? Looks pretty cool to me: being the only candidate in the vote would certainly solve a few problems!

 

[alamo]

Never like you is true, but they will still vote for you under the influence of a MPP. I think we're ok in this case. If we were careful to declare war and not pillage too many towns or disband workers, then the attitude will be poor but salvageable.

Even if we're the only candidate they could always abstain.

I don't quite understand the captured settler concept. You somehow trap a settler? I thought they would commit suicide if they could not settle.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Hmmm, I didn't catch the suicide part. I will have to do some more reading. In any case, I hope we don't need to resort to that strategy, as it would take forever. I was hoping that we could finish this game off in the next round of turns, but now I am not so sure.

 

[alamo]

Here is an excerpt from Bamspeedy's article:

+20 min for furious AI
-5 If you trade or donate a resource.
-5 If you have a Right of Passage with the AI.
-10 If you have a Mutual Protection Pact with the AI.
-5 if you sign an alliance and go to war with that enemy.
-----
-5 Polite

We razed an English town, but that is only and additional +1.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

BF - Actually, Aerosmith kinda stunk. I've been to about 8 or 10 of their shows now, and this is the first time I walked away disappointed. They sounded good, but they were filming for some movie, and they did about 4 "false" endings to a song so they could get good shots of all of us cheering. Then they sang "Crazy" three times with some blond, who although hot, added nothing to the performance. By the time they actually got around to really playing, the show was 2/3 over, and it was too late to bring it back.

Enough of my whining though. The reason I said I'd try to get to this is that because of a strange confluence of forces, I'm up in nearly all my SG's today. The one drawback of being involved in six or seven at a time.

What do you guys suggest for the game? Should I start the UN and see if that will trigger Japan to start building? What is the most efficient course of action from here? Do we need to formulate a contingency plan? Every turn Japan waits to start building is costing us score.

 

[alamo]

Options:

Bait Japan by starting UN
Wait a few turns to see if peace comes with expired MPP
Cover the Japanese coast with Panzers (to stop bombards)
Surround Mao's boats with transports the next time they come by
Take out Mao (but don't attack Cathy)
Give Joan/Liz/Cathy a good city to build UN then give her Fission

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Unfortunately, because we have the power lead, all of those positive effects are cut in half. Also, a furious AI can be as high as +100 (although I hope to god these guys are not!). Giving them a gift of 100g value will also give us another -5.

@Sesn: Sorry about the concert, that would have really cheezed me off.

Starting the UN sounds like a good idea. My vote still goes to peace with everyone unless China is getting too strong (I think Alamo is checking on that). If China gets Fission, I would give it to Joan immediately just on the off chance she could finish.

As for contingency plans, I would say we wait to see who abstains in the first vote. All who do get obliterated by our Panzers.

If a vote happens to approach on your turns:

Yup, I will also:
o Purchase embassies
o Give each one something (100g or a tech)
o Take ROPs and MPPs with each (after trading for Nationalism, which I won't research)
o Trade maps
o Make sure I have a luxury/resource trade with each

 

[SesnOfWthr]

A quick note: IIRC, the attitude bonus from gifts is a one time thing. If you'll recall, one of things I did way back when we had those barb problems was to gift Joan and Cathy. Maybe that part is out then?