SGOTM6 - Team barbslinger
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
el_filet
Prince
i need to finish another game today, i don't think i can play 2. but should have time tomorrow.
in case we need 2 chops for game irrigation, i'd send the settler to the wheat first and build warrior(s) until our worker is ready for the chops. will rather invest the shields in granary then temple if possible.
i'm having problems deciding for a research path. researching something we don't need (like republic) is a bit risky, but would be great if it works. depends a bit on the number of contacts. we can certainly use lib, but i don't see us building GLib.
in case we need 2 chops for game irrigation, i'd send the settler to the wheat first and build warrior(s) until our worker is ready for the chops. will rather invest the shields in granary then temple if possible.
i'm having problems deciding for a research path. researching something we don't need (like republic) is a bit risky, but would be great if it works. depends a bit on the number of contacts. we can certainly use lib, but i don't see us building GLib.
chunkymonkey
Procrastinator
I've just had a different idea. I think we should settle one square west, and still go for the game chop. This has numerous advantages:
- We gain one turn.
- We get to use the game forest straight away rather than just a BG (therefore temple build will be quicker).
- The game can be irrigated straight away after chopping.
- We still have the three BGs (at least) and forest in our radius necessary for our four turn settler pump.
- We save a space around the wheat for another four turn settler pump.
Only disadvantage i can see:
- We lose a shield from the BG... not a big deal in my estimation for the purposes of the settler pump.
I'm at uni now, i'll refine this when i get home and do the calclations as to what we can build and work every turn, but just thought i'd throw this up as a suggestion before we start.
I'm inclined to go with my suggestion though
@el_filet
The sooner we get the temple in, which is going to help with happiness anyway, we're going to get a whole extra bunch of culture (beating the other teams could come down to a few turns)... i'd prefer to build temple as a priority, but if noone else agrees...
The only reason i suggested Literature is because i think our priority builds in the AA are going to be settlers, temples, libraries, swordsmen. So its either IW or Literature...
- We gain one turn.
- We get to use the game forest straight away rather than just a BG (therefore temple build will be quicker).
- The game can be irrigated straight away after chopping.
- We still have the three BGs (at least) and forest in our radius necessary for our four turn settler pump.
- We save a space around the wheat for another four turn settler pump.
Only disadvantage i can see:
- We lose a shield from the BG... not a big deal in my estimation for the purposes of the settler pump.
I'm at uni now, i'll refine this when i get home and do the calclations as to what we can build and work every turn, but just thought i'd throw this up as a suggestion before we start.
I'm inclined to go with my suggestion though
@el_filet
The sooner we get the temple in, which is going to help with happiness anyway, we're going to get a whole extra bunch of culture (beating the other teams could come down to a few turns)... i'd prefer to build temple as a priority, but if noone else agrees...
The only reason i suggested Literature is because i think our priority builds in the AA are going to be settlers, temples, libraries, swordsmen. So its either IW or Literature...
el_filet
Prince
what about the lack of food bonus? we need 2 bonus food squares for a 4 turn settler factory. or am i missing something?
i agree on your (chunkymonkey) priorities in AA. i hope we can do some expanding before we need to go to war, so i vote for research toward lit.
an early temple is certainly a good thing, i just think in our settler pump a granary is even more important. i think we can (we probably have to) build the temple before we're set up for 4 turn settlers, but we should max grow as early as possible.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
chunkymonkey said:
Does a single irrigated game or wheat gives us a 4-turn settler factory? We have to be +5 in the food bin for that. In any case. I really don't like settling on BGs. That's a lost shield for the entire game which can add up over time. To save one turn doesn't offset that loss IMO.
I will be back tonight and can open the game if no one else can.
TimBentley
Deity
Remember, the Celts are agricultural. 3 food in the city center + 4 food for the irrigated game/wheat = +5fpt.
We might as well go for philosophy. Literature would either be the free tech or the next one.
We might as well go for philosophy. Literature would either be the free tech or the next one.
el_filet
Prince
-1 despotism penalty => +4fpt
now i forgot the irrigation
: +5fpt (hopefully final )in that case, we should consider this option. i like the plan. i hate to give up a BG too, but if there are enough BG closeby to make the 4 turn settler factory happen, it's worth it.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
mad-bax said:
You got me, MB, sort of, but I believe we don't pick up that extra shield until pop 12 or 13. That still takes a while, esp if it's 13 and we're now talking hospitals. And with rail after communism, we lose the 3rd shield.
TimBentley
Deity
Note that even if the capital is founded 2 tiles NW, another city could also use the game or wheat.
chunkymonkey
Procrastinator
My idea was sort of based on the premise that Entremont would be our main settler pump for most, if not all of the early game. Settling on the BG is partially abhorrent to me too, and I would usually never ever do it, but it has this main advantage:
We can irrigate the game straight away after chopping and get the magic 5fpt. If we have to muck around with chopping forests and irrigating all over the place we have effectively lost a few turns of growth.
In my opinion these extra turns of growth are much more important than a single shield, which we don't actually require in the REX phase due to having all the necessary shields around for the 4 turn settler pump. Once we stop using Entremont as the settler pump, probably mid middle-ages, the extra shield that we could have gained will pale into comparison to the extra growth we received at the beginning. In my opinion...
I don't feel extremely dogmatic about this, but I feel it is the best option for us. I would be willing to play the first turn set to carry it through, and then all abuse can be directed at me for the rest of the game. Or if the team prefers M60s idea, then he can run with that...
We can irrigate the game straight away after chopping and get the magic 5fpt. If we have to muck around with chopping forests and irrigating all over the place we have effectively lost a few turns of growth.
In my opinion these extra turns of growth are much more important than a single shield, which we don't actually require in the REX phase due to having all the necessary shields around for the 4 turn settler pump. Once we stop using Entremont as the settler pump, probably mid middle-ages, the extra shield that we could have gained will pale into comparison to the extra growth we received at the beginning. In my opinion...
I don't feel extremely dogmatic about this, but I feel it is the best option for us. I would be willing to play the first turn set to carry it through, and then all abuse can be directed at me for the rest of the game. Or if the team prefers M60s idea, then he can run with that...
TimBentley
Deity
The city gets the extra shield if it's on a BG at size 7. The industrious extra shield is what comes at size 13.
chunkymonkey
Procrastinator
That's what I figured, and as soon as Entremont stops being our settler pump, for which it has all the requirements, it will be size 7 in no time at all.TimBentley said:
Of course, but I like the fact that we will be able to work the game straight away. Entremont has no real reason to be anywhere near the wheat.TimBentley said:
Anyway, on a lighter note, thought it would be useful to have a record of who our friends are going to be.
Attachments
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
Well no one has really stated a strong opinion of either view, although e_f seems to lean towards chunky's recommendation. So let's go with it. We are in agreement with temple as a first build and getting a settler factory up and running at first opportunity. No one has said got it, so I now "got it". Results coming up.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
The save at 3000 BC
Turn 0 (4000BC) And away we go Settler and worker west.
IBT- Barb kills us, game over. No, not really!
Turn 1 (3950BC) Entremont settled, and we will pick up a silk on culture expansion. Worker 1 west to chop the forest. 5 BGs to work around the city, so a good location. Start a run on Alpha at min sci. Its 50 turns across the board. Start chopping the game tile.
Then nothing up until
Turn 6 (3700BC) Forest chop done, temple in 7, start irrigating. Lux to 20% with growth in 1.
IBT- zzz
Turn 7 (3650BC) Temple now in 2. MM to bring it in 1.
IBT- Entremont temple> warrior in 4.
Turn 8 (3600BC) Lux to zero.
IBT- Entremont expands.
Turn 9 (3550BC) zzzz
IBT- nothing.
Turn 10 (3500BC) Irrigation complete, start the road.
IBT- nothing
Turn 11 (3450BC) zzzz
IBT- Entremont warrior>warrior
Turn 12 (3400BC) Start our warrior exploring south.
IBT- nothing.
Turn 13 (3350BC) Lux to 10%. Worker to BG tile.
IBT- Entremont warrior> warrior.
Turn 14 (3300BC) Warrior explores south
IBT- nothing
Turn 15 (3250BC) Quiet
IBT- Quiet
Turn 16 (3200BC) Warrior confirms the cow east of Entremont has no direct access, so we made the right call. Warrior in 2, MM growth in 2.
IBT- Warrior>granary.
Turn 17 (3150BC) Lux back to zero. South warrior spots a silk 6 tiles south of Entremont.
IBT- Nothing
Turn 18 (3100BC) Same
IBT- Still quiet.
Turn 19 (3050BC) More exploring,
IBT- Quiet
(3000 BC) Entremont size 4 with growth in 7, granary in 6. North warrior climbs a hill and spots a Japanese warrior. Find them up BW and wheel, they need pottery, but will not trade techs. Theyll give 60 gold for pottery and thats it. Firaxis score 90. And done.
We don't have an order yet, so who wants to grab it next?
And FWIW, chunky's strategy worked just fine. After this set, with the staff team still pending, we have the best results by a hair over Team Bede.
Turn 0 (4000BC) And away we go Settler and worker west.
IBT- Barb kills us, game over. No, not really!
Turn 1 (3950BC) Entremont settled, and we will pick up a silk on culture expansion. Worker 1 west to chop the forest. 5 BGs to work around the city, so a good location. Start a run on Alpha at min sci. Its 50 turns across the board. Start chopping the game tile.
Then nothing up until
Turn 6 (3700BC) Forest chop done, temple in 7, start irrigating. Lux to 20% with growth in 1.
IBT- zzz
Turn 7 (3650BC) Temple now in 2. MM to bring it in 1.
IBT- Entremont temple> warrior in 4.
Turn 8 (3600BC) Lux to zero.
IBT- Entremont expands.
Turn 9 (3550BC) zzzz
IBT- nothing.
Turn 10 (3500BC) Irrigation complete, start the road.
IBT- nothing
Turn 11 (3450BC) zzzz
IBT- Entremont warrior>warrior
Turn 12 (3400BC) Start our warrior exploring south.
IBT- nothing.
Turn 13 (3350BC) Lux to 10%. Worker to BG tile.
IBT- Entremont warrior> warrior.
Turn 14 (3300BC) Warrior explores south
IBT- nothing
Turn 15 (3250BC) Quiet
IBT- Quiet
Turn 16 (3200BC) Warrior confirms the cow east of Entremont has no direct access, so we made the right call. Warrior in 2, MM growth in 2.
IBT- Warrior>granary.
Turn 17 (3150BC) Lux back to zero. South warrior spots a silk 6 tiles south of Entremont.
IBT- Nothing
Turn 18 (3100BC) Same
IBT- Still quiet.
Turn 19 (3050BC) More exploring,
IBT- Quiet
(3000 BC) Entremont size 4 with growth in 7, granary in 6. North warrior climbs a hill and spots a Japanese warrior. Find them up BW and wheel, they need pottery, but will not trade techs. Theyll give 60 gold for pottery and thats it. Firaxis score 90. And done.
We don't have an order yet, so who wants to grab it next?
And FWIW, chunky's strategy worked just fine. After this set, with the staff team still pending, we have the best results by a hair over Team Bede.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
Good job!
Seems like our little gamble paid off.
Thinking about where we should put the second city.
Two alternatives stand out, both the bonus food tiles.
1) On the coast south of the game, to get the dyes on expansion.
2) One tile NE of the wheat.
Two lux so close is nice.
I cant play today, and I guess we need to hang back for some discussions and opinions here and not race on. Remember, we have plenty of time for this game, and there is no need to rush it just cause the other teams move along. If we take it easy we can also see their graphs and then we know what to beat.
JJ
Seems like our little gamble paid off.
Thinking about where we should put the second city.
Two alternatives stand out, both the bonus food tiles.
1) On the coast south of the game, to get the dyes on expansion.
2) One tile NE of the wheat.
Two lux so close is nice.
I cant play today, and I guess we need to hang back for some discussions and opinions here and not race on. Remember, we have plenty of time for this game, and there is no need to rush it just cause the other teams move along. If we take it easy we can also see their graphs and then we know what to beat.
JJ
chunkymonkey
Procrastinator
Good job M60, thanks for executing the idea so elegantly 
I can take it and play if nobody else wants to.
There won't be many decisions to make before the next turn set since the settler probably won't fall out before the end, but if everyone who feels strongly about our next city location wants to voice their opinions that'll get the discussion.
Depends what we want from our next city but if we stick one south of the game as per tomassjj's suggestion, we can get another 4-turn pump. Or we could have a 2 turn worker pump by the wheat...
I'm at uni now, but i'll leave the game untouched until everyone's had a chance to comment...
I can take it and play if nobody else wants to.
There won't be many decisions to make before the next turn set since the settler probably won't fall out before the end, but if everyone who feels strongly about our next city location wants to voice their opinions that'll get the discussion.
Depends what we want from our next city but if we stick one south of the game as per tomassjj's suggestion, we can get another 4-turn pump. Or we could have a 2 turn worker pump by the wheat...
I'm at uni now, but i'll leave the game untouched until everyone's had a chance to comment...
el_filet
Prince
well done M60 - as usual. i'd have liked to see the silk chop go to the granary, but we'll certainly find use for it.
both suggested sites look good, the S slighly better due to lux (dyes
) & settler factory potential. but i'd build the N site first, spit out workers and hopefully get the same start as in the capital for the S (temple with forest chop->granary, sneak in MP as needed).
2 early luxes will help, but without workers they won't come online for a while.
a general question about city placement:
what are our intentions? ICS?
i don't like ICS, but we'll certainly need a dense build. i prefer to build cities as needed and fill in spots as possible. on the other hand, ICS will probably be required to get a good score. if so, we need to plan the early cities accordingly.
both suggested sites look good, the S slighly better due to lux (dyes
) & settler factory potential. but i'd build the N site first, spit out workers and hopefully get the same start as in the capital for the S (temple with forest chop->granary, sneak in MP as needed). 2 early luxes will help, but without workers they won't come online for a while.
a general question about city placement:
what are our intentions? ICS?
i don't like ICS, but we'll certainly need a dense build. i prefer to build cities as needed and fill in spots as possible. on the other hand, ICS will probably be required to get a good score. if so, we need to plan the early cities accordingly.
Ah, the ICS issue. Somehow conveniently forgot about that...as I dont usually play like that in single games.
I guess in a 100K race we would need many cities with temples and cath, libs very quick. And you dont need an enormous amount of tiles for each city, considering despotism whipping either... Anyway, this is a new strat to me, so only ranting here.
One MadBax note from the maintenance thread: Barb activity "is set to raging and in crackers words "with regionally intense barbarian activity."
Something to keep in mind when settlers start wandering...
jj
I guess in a 100K race we would need many cities with temples and cath, libs very quick. And you dont need an enormous amount of tiles for each city, considering despotism whipping either... Anyway, this is a new strat to me, so only ranting here.
One MadBax note from the maintenance thread: Barb activity "is set to raging and in crackers words "with regionally intense barbarian activity."
Something to keep in mind when settlers start wandering...
jj
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