SGOTM6 - Team Bede

[Bede]

Don't need any wonders.

We need allies more than we need peace. We can buy America into the war with India and get Chemistry for lots of money (gpt). Then get Iroquois into the war with Japan for Chemistry. That should buy us a breather on the Eastern Front while we finish off the Chinese.

Carthage and the Mongols do not appear to be in the best position to help us out, Iroquois and Amaerica are far better placed.

Once the Eastern forces have healed up a little more we can continue the move on Japan and India.

I really don't like the idea of half-finished wars as we only have to go back and do it again later.

 

[Pied Piper]

I don't much favor half finished wars thing either, but I really do hate the two front war thing against more than two civs at a time. I am also a huge fan of "Territorial Integrity" and gaining those two southern cities from Japan will shorten our borders and save quite a few turns of troop movements. At least we don't have to worry about war weariness.

There is also a very serious finance issue, what are our research goals, short and long term? I imagine getting to Communism is top priority long term but how do we get there? Any suggestions?

 

[Bede]

Judging from what I saw in the save we have hit the wall on self-research for the moment. (despot food production limits our commercial potential). There are a couple of brokering oppotunities to be had for Chemistry and we do have a big enough income to do some serious buying. (We may even want to buy Printing and sell maps around).

On the research path I would prefer sticking to the bottom half of the tree for now. Buying the techs and trading them out for the upper branch.

On the two front issue: allying with Ameica and Iro should turn this into one front active, the second much less so while the other guys do some fighting and dying for us.

 

[Pied Piper]

The only problem with this strategy is that it is at least 8 turns before we get Chemistry and there is no way to get them on board sooner. The only option is to trade two extra luxury to Carthage for MA against India or give them Horses for MA against India and Japan, but I don't think we need them taking Japan cities, especially since Japan has that luxury at Grand River.

Sad to say but selling our soul for Printing is not a viable option. Everyone with money already has it, and those that don't have it also don't have other techs they can't pay us for either.

 

[Bede]

We can buy America into the war with India and get Chemistry for lots of money (gpt).

Try it and see if it works. Then, how about Iroquois vs India?

And there is always cash to be made selling maps (especially to the folks who don't know how to print), even if it's only a couple of gold per turn, but with all the nations on the map that is not to be sneezed at.

 

[eldar]

Iroquois vs India will make India stronger - the Iros were pretty badly beaten up by the Japs during that little tete-a-tete.

 

[Pied Piper]

Still working on the turn set but have some good news.
Got Chemistry for less than 60 gold and...

 

[Tubby Rower]

How did we get into a war with the Mongols? Good job on Chemistry....

 

[Pied Piper]

Get Chem from America for 5g/54gpt
Get Edu/MA from Iro for Chem
Get PP/3gpt from Scan for Chem
Get MA from Mongols for furs/1g
Get MA from America for RoP/13g/30gpt
Get 1gpt from Joan for Comm
Get MA from Babs for RoP/24gpt

Rush cath in Shantung
Rush temple in Osaka/Nara
switch Edo/Toyama/NewMadras to temple
Switch Nema/Cata to cath (no barracks)
Switch Yoko to knight (barracks)
Switch Lapur to cath and rush in 2 turns
Switch Gerg/Lugud to MDI then settler
Switch Alesia/Camul/Ratae to settler
Rush Ebor Knight
Rush August settler
Various assorted troop movements
Do you think they messed with the culture needed to flip cities?

IBT:
America is still moving archers our way.
Mongols declare on us, even with them getting furs from us. Warrior survives sneak attack.
China fleets retreat north (probably since I blocked the channel with galley from Entr.)
Osaka: temple>cath
Alesia: settler>knight
Edo resistance ends
Nara: temple>cath
Gerg: MDI>settler
August: settler>barracks
Ebora: knight>knight
Shangtung: cath>harbor
Kaifeng: Temple>barracks

560: 1
Kill two China units and decide to make peace for two cities.
Many reasons, saving an isolated stack of 5 slaves, treb and 2/5 knight from the failed Canton campaign chief among them.
Guess we should have razed it. Convert the cities to 6gpt with tax collection to reduce negative spending.
Rush knight in Verul, move workers out of danger zone to Mongu, move in pike/MDI next to Ulaan
Army kills WE and loses 1hp.
Since Mongols don't want furs then Carthage shall have them for MA against Mongols,
but we must spice up the deal a little, with spices. Hannibal also gives 17g and we have a deal.

IBT:
Surprise, Surprise, Americans declare war on us. Good thing I moved that knight into Edo, now it is elite.
Almost dead to be sure, but to survive 4 archers attacking across the river... the other stack turns and runs north.
China, objects to war machines left behind, so I click on what about RoP? and presto, non negotiable RoP.
Ent: knight>kanigit
Lug: MDI>settler
Camul: settler>knight
Rich: knight>settler
Verul: knight>knight
Yoko: knight>library
Mats: cath>library
Eridu completes Leonardo's and Everyone is building the Sistine Chapel

570: 2
Carthage moved worker to mountain next to New Delhi? That was to be my assault point for next turns attack, Delay 1 turn.
Just got a 67gpt relief of payments to America, WooHoo! Actually only paid 59 gold for Chemistry! Still 40% research is max, keep at zero.
Kill two pikes in Ulaan, third knight attack fails but knight sanely disengages. MDI moved in last turn assaults damaged pike and... its ours!
Take a gamble and abandon August to defend the Incense from two swords.
Rush temple in Isca, MDI in August, cath in Aged/Catar/Lapur, library in Nema.

IBT:
Hannibal, ever the polite diplomat, kindly asks over dinner to Ally against the Vikings. With those longships lurking to the north? No way.
I skillfully divert the conversation to the most backward civ on the planet and sell him contact with the English for 13g/2gpt.
Assault on incense kills spearman but MDI holds, Mongols move in two more swords and a spear.
Isca: temple>library
August: MDI>barracks
Aged/Catar/Lapur: cath>univ
Nema:libr>cath

580: 3
Found Glevum, advance on New Delhi
Western front a little tight but should hold, peas with Chinese was definitely the right call.
Found Axima
Rush treb in Chinan, very little artillery on this side of the channel.
Rush cath in Hangchow
Rush temple in Rutup

IBT:
Scan/Iro sigh peace.
Mongols take incense killing two MDI and archer, but have only a 1hp sword there.
The good news is they abandon approach to Chinan.
Lugd: settler>knight
Hang: cath>univ
Rutu: temple>lib
Chin: treb>cath
Rata: settler>settler

590: 4
Curious Japan sends vet spear south, catapult knocks a HP off and MDI finishes the job to get a GL!

No wonders to build so army is formed in Osaka
Autoraze New Delhi with two knights, third kills Indian longbow.
Upgrade several cats across the channel
Notice a jap galley sneaking across the bottom.
Upgrade spear to musket in Verul
Corruption increase in Gerg leaves 29 shields for settler, change to cath.

IBT:
Indians requested and audience, is it because we are about to pillage their saltpeter?
Can get peace for a worker plus Dacca/Pune or Karachi, decline
America takes Punjab from India. For some reason America and India don't know each other?
Mongols mill around the western mountains uncertain of purpose or objective
Rich: settler>univ
Chen: treb>settler

600: 5
Army takes Hakodate
Found Deva
kill american archer and position two knights, MDI, archer and cat around Punjab. And pillage the saltpeter.
Apparently India also lost Karachi as well. Might want to make a deal while there are still parts to be had.
Rush knight in Alesia for 38 shields, just in case
Sell England Mono for 88g

IBT:
Lost MDI by Japan but not before he took out two others, unfortunately many Japan swords followed.
Alesia: knight>knight
Izumo: cath>knight
Hokadate resistance ends

610: 6
Take Punjab and end resistance all in one move by elite archers. No bombing required, already redlined.
Load up two more knights into army and move to mountain SW of Tonawanda, on other side of river.
Carthage settler/NM is occupying assault point for attack next turn, delayed again,
Take out Japan settler/pike instead, at a cost of 4 HP, can you say ouch? He wasn't even a vet but fought like an elite.
Japan ship turns around since we put our ships into port, must be empty, eh?
Change Lugd to settler, we should have a city on the island up there.
Found Lezoux, needs two MP which are 1 tile away.
The Battle of the Incense continues, bomb vet MDI and elite knight kills losing only 1 hp.
Bad news is he sees five more swords approaching along mountain range, at least they dont have the sense to use the road.
Trade Carthage Education for 2 workers/37g/Republic

IBT:
Scand/carthage peace.
Mongol advance breaks in two at our stand west of Kaifeng.
Indian WE from Dacca kills MDI approaching Calcutta but is redlined.
Ent: knight>knight
Lug: settler>knight
Music Theory now available.

620: 7
Just not fair, knight loses 2 HP taking out redlined WE, this will delay taking calcutta I fear, two units less.
Better news on west front, kill 2 swords, a spear(after promo from our MDI) and 4 archers in forest next to Kaifeng.
Should have cut those trees down. Trebs are missing alot of shots though.
Mouse slip puts elite knight in semi danger, will see.
Switch Lapur to harbor.

IBT:
Lose knight from mouse slip, redlined sword but he was dead anyway.
Iroquois/India peace
Burd: knight>knight

630: 8
Take Calcutta! Really wanted to whack that Musket/settler but patience till the end.
Still want to whack him but circumstances dictate that peace is more profitable and secure.
Peace with Ghandi for Pune/Dacca/worker/17g
Change Osaka to worker to eliminate flip risk
Rush Library in Mats
Rush temple in Toy

IBT:
Lose knight/archer in the mountains of the Incense war.
Calcutta resistance over.
Gerg: Cath>settler
Quell resistor in Ulaan, which then immediately revolts, go figure.
Mats: Library>harbor
Toy: temple>library

640:
once again carthage is in the way of assault on Tonawanda, go for capital instead.
Kill some more Mongols, lose vet knight attacking redlined sword in mountains.
Rush libr in Curov/Anyang, temple in Edo, cath in Nagoya

IBT:
America sending boat by way of China
Curov: library>cath
Edo: temple>library
Camul: knight>knight
Nag: cath>harbor
Cheng: settler>cath
Ulaan: temple>libr
Anyang: libr>cath
Ratae: settler>univ

650: 10
Take Satsuma, found Arausio
Rush temple in Mongu

Found city where settler stands out east, Carthage has settler trying to take that area.
Settlers should go across the channel but left movement of ship and two settlers for next player
Almost took Dur but ran short, mostly of concentration, maybe 5 turn sets from now on.
We have 3 overseas cities that may be useful in trade, otherwise they are set to generate tax income.
There are no beakers invested in research so feel free to change, Metal just became available
Ebor can rush knight next turn for 2 pop.

Will edit for pics.

 

[Bede]

Worth the wait. Good progress.

Roster check:

Roster:

eldar - up
Bede - on deck
Minute Man
Mab
Tubby Rower
Pied Piper

 

[eldar]

Thought it was me up. Our Western front is looking a little ragged. I have a plan to bolster it. Tell me what you think...

We have loads of troops in ex-Japan that we don't really need. In particular, we have two armies. We could really do with one of them to contain the Mongols. I'd go for the Gallic army. Obviously we can't transport them by sea, but they can go overland. Only Carthage is now between us and the Mongols, on the Japanese side; so we sign RoP with Hannibal - shouldn't be a problem - and send the Army through that way! Might as well selectively pillage the Mongol lands as it traverses them, but it ought to be safe from attack.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Sounds good to me eldar. After our peace is done with Ghandi, I'd like to see us finish him off. Those War Elephants are scary and he can build them with no resources.

So now we are only at war with the Mongols and Americans correct?

 

[eldar]

And Japan. We're always at war with them.

 

[eldar]

Played it.

Summary: Japan are an OCC, but only for a couple more turns. After that, they become a 0CC No progress vs. the Mongols, who continue to send units across our borders. However 'Operation Backdoor' has started, and our Gallic Army is pillaging its was eastwards! With Japan out of the picture, plans have been started to move on India next.

The Save

Turn Log:
0 650 Two settlers to move; go towards China. Galley still to move; heads north to explore a bit more. Already have RoP with Carthage - excellent. Metallurgy is too expensive. What are we doing with our cash otherwise… let's see. Research, too, is steep. Hire a lone Scientist and start a min run on Banking, slim hope, but you never know with these crazy AIs. Get on with the next turn.

IT: Lots of enemy troop movement, including a huuuuuuuuuge stack of English Horsies. Nothing else of note.

1 660 Bomb & redline a couple of retreating Mongol swords, but don't follow up - they're still on a mountain. Find a couple of Temples to whip, and 2 libs that can be whipped next turn. Mop up Jap units, letting major forces heal. The Gallic Army heads off on its long trek.

IT: Mongols take 2hps off a Musket with an ex-MedInf. Japs kill a redlined Knight but lose a red-lined unit by attacking with it! UB riots so it goes on a starvation diet. Babylon are building Copernicus

2 670 More unit-chasing.

IT: D'oh.. Japan capture our Trebs.

3 680 Even more unit-chasing, but the Gallics have stopped by Grand River en route.

IT: Mongols kill a Musket.

4 690 Capture Tonawanda and get our Trebs back Capture Grand River, Gallics are in the red though. Whack some Mongol units near our Incense.

IT: China/Babylon vs India. Where are all those English units going?! Japan kill a Knight, pillage our Iron near Nara.

5 700 Not much.

IT: Carthage/Mongols peace Mongols/Babylon vs India.

6 710 Take out some Mongol units. Take Mauch Chunk Find a couple of things to whip. Give Pune away to England as America are about to take it.

IT: Take peace with America for all his gold (22). UB and Satsuma riot. So does Verul.

7 720 UB & Satsuma go on starvation diets. Verul gets a taxman.

IT: Babylon completes Sistine's.

8 730 Move Knights on the last couple of Jap cities. The Gallics are almost into Mongol territory. More Knights move west towards the Mongols. Mongol LBs meanwhile pour over the border, and die.

IT: Mongols plant a unit on our Incense!

9 740 Buy a Worker from Hannibal. Kill some Mongols. Gallic Army enters Mongol territory, captures a couple of Slaves

IT: Mongols get their Workers back. Bunch of gpt deals expire.

10 750 Capture Sapporo, Japan down to 1 city. Will take a couple of turns to get there, though. Techs are still too expensive, but I established our remaining embassies. France are close to Copernicus, Scandinavia even closer to Bach's - and has 7 muskets in Trondheim. Gallic Army in Mongol territory is to pillage then move, and move on Darhan from behind. There's a strike force gathering in August, but the Mongols have an endless stream of LBs and MedInfs, it seems. Another stack is ready to go for India. Plant a Settler where the stack is, there's one on the way. Forgot about the no-deals-on-last-turn thing and sold Spices to Ragnar for 8gpt, sorry.

No pictures, it took me a while to play those turns and I've not had dinner yet!!

Neil.

 

[mabellino]

Wow! great turns guys! I can tell you've been itching to play those turns, Eldar

Did you find out where those English units were headed? I hope they're not going to pull a sneak attack on us.

From the graphs on the submissions page it looks as though we've probably pop-rushed a lot more culture than the other teams. Our score is lagging behind but our culture is sky-rocketing. We might still have a chance of a medal as long as we consolidate and get a load more cities fast. Taking out Japan probably hasn't had its whole impact on score yet as it looks as though we haven't filled in their lovely virgin lands yet.

Our priorities probably need restating... is it WAR! or build like crazy? Or even a mixture of both?

Again guys!

 

[Bede]

And still more good progress.

I will bet my next Chinese dinner that the teams who have crossed our culture graph have built the ToA....then went to town with their Gallics.

Got it.

We make war and build culture. The terrain at home is making the training of settlers tough, and rebuilding the population after whipping, but we should be done with most of that(the whip I mean) at home I think, and that should improve in Japanlands with all that green.

 

[Pied Piper]

I don't know, I just might take that bet. I personally think the best approach is settler pumps with ICS layout and just clear out the civs as they encroach. What we ought to do now is have every other city build a settler and just settle close by. After 10 turns pop rush a whole new crop of temples. We have the room. It just takes a little longer to play the turns with the extra thought required. The wars can continue, just don't run up the casualties, take it slow and only take territory as we need it.

BTW, forests in tundra are more productive than mines until we get steam.

 

[eldar]

We need infra in our core cities - Markets in first ring, Courts further out. Obviously it won't hurt to plan for Courts in the core later before the Commie switch. Our economy is hurting right now, I know we're in Despotism but with all those Libraries we should be able to research better than we are.

 

[Pied Piper]

Perhaps a few universities and then a palace jump may help.

 

[mabellino]

Unis are expensive but bring in culture and extra research. I'd usually build them as a priority but our shields are needed for the war effort just as much as for culture.
I like Pied Piper's pseudo ICS idea as long as we don't cramp our larger cities too much. The whipping in the core will soon come to a halt as each productive city will have all the culture it can handle for now.

All in all I'm really enjoying this game as I can see the point of each move we make, my SP games are usually very unfocused and I just manage a win in the ind/modern ages.

Great game guys