SGOTM6 - Xteam

Sorry I've been out to lunch, some things came up. :crazyeye:

This may be relevent to the discussion of the start. It comes from the Maintenance thread written by M-B.
Difficulty of the Start

You've prolly seen it, but I found it interesting.
 
1250BC, turn 70:
I switch Richborough to granary since it can work a wheat it should become a settler factory.
Will allow Camo to finish barracks before chop finish, chop will go towards a settler
move mohacs citizen to work river grass instead of forest to gain a gold

IBT:
Entremont: Settler -> warrior

1225BC, turn 71:
send worker in entremont W,Sw to unroaded and unmined river BG
send worker NW of Mohacs to unroaded river grass tile
halt the worker that started chopping forst last turn and start both workers chopping forest this turn si I am sure it finish the turn after barracks finish
move the souther settler pair towards proposed tile by shells (will prevent other civs from claiming the dyes)

pondering where to send the new settler in entremont, and decide on spot 11 to claim more area and work towards the spices.
bring the regular warrior in entremont along as protection since there will be a new one available before entremont grows again
move mohacs citizen back to river forest

IBT:
Lungdum: warrior -> warrior

1200BC, turn 72:
worker on BG start mine, other worker start road

IBT:
entremont: warrior -> settler
mohacs: worker->settler (going to let newly founded cities start on 10 turn workers instead of building more in settler factories for now)

mongols start colossus
vikings start lighthouse

1175BC, turn 73:
new worker goes north

Found Gerovia by the shells, set to worker

buy a worker from india for 26 gold
slave goes SW to start road that tile

send the reg warrior from Lugdunum towards Camo to work as MP

IBT:
nothing

1150BC, turn 74:
Found Augustodurum at spot 11 (the lone tundra tile in grass) -> worker
slave and 2 workers start roads
move citizen in Camo from BG to roaded river grass, and citizen from mined and roaded BG to river grass.. this prevents riot, and rax still finish in 1 turn
move citizen in entremong from forest to roaded and mined BG that Camo used (settler will complete in 3 turns with no loss.. we already have a 6 turn warrior-settler factory set up here)

IBT:
Camo: rax -> settler (will get chop)

france complete colossus in Orleans
chinese and english start lighthouse

1125BC, turn 75:
move the worker SE of mohacs SW and finish the mine there, worker on that tile move NE and start mine

warrior arrive in Camo and with Mp it can work unroaded BG tile

IBT:
lugunum: warrior -> warrior

india start lighthouse

1100BC, turn 76:
workers on newly chopped game start irrigation
worker from south of mohacs goes NW of mohacs

england,japan and china has currency now.. most of our gpt turns expore next turn.. so will wait till then

IBT:
Entremont: settler -> warrior
Verulamium: worker -> rax

1075BC, turn 77:
send new settler from entremont towards the ring 5 site near the goats (with warrior protection)

france picked up currency in IBT, and england and france has construction
all our gold and gpt is not enough to get construction, so I wait (its doubtful so can prolly buy it after another civ gets it)

IBT:
exploring warrior is attack by barb warrior, and wins flawlessly

vikings start lighthouse

1050BC, turn 78:

no change in tech situation

IBT:
japan demands TM and 24gold.. give it to him.. dont want them dropping off annoying units from galleys

entremont: warrior -> settler

india start GLib

1025BC, turn 79:
Found Agedincum -> worker

still cant buy construction, but iroquis has a worker for sale, so give them 27gold for it

IBT:
Lugdunum: warrior -> warrior

1000BC, turn 80:
America and japan picked up construction BT

france will sell us for least money, prolly because our map is worth most with them

WM, 113gold and 19gpt to france for construction

construction to china for currency and TM (they would not give WM)

currency to neoCartage for their WM, literature and 100gold

We have a pretty much complete WM now and in the MA.

prolly want to wait with gifting Babylon to MA untill we have Republic to trade them


QSC stats:
9 cities, 24 citizens
8 native workers, 2 slaves

QSC score according to CRpMapStat: 6058

fireaxis 219
Jason 74

there are settlers completing in turn 1, turn 2 and turn 3 for next player
 
Xt1kBC.jpg

The red dots mark the remaining ring 3 and 5 spots.. I suggest settling the 2 northern dots and the spot 2 SE of Camo with the first 3 settlers.
 
Good work Gyathaar, and nice trading. It looks as if we've got the settler factories into gear now. I agree with the plan to make workers in new towns where they can grow in 10 or less.

Gyathaar just played
AlanH UP
Tomoyo On deck
leif erikson
WillowBrook
DJMGator13

I'll get it and play ten tonight.
 
Looks good, Gyathaar.

At this tech pace, are we going to be able to make good use of our UU? We'll have a stack of vet warriors soon, but with the 80g upgrade cost, it could take a while to have an adequate force, and pikes won't be nice.

And what about wars between other civs?

The emphasis on growth is good for now, but at what point do we start using the pointy-stick method of expanding? I guess when most land is claimed?
 
Question, since I havent played vanilla in a long time.. can you keep building your UU there too untill you have had your golden age even if upgrades are available?
 
IIRC, as long as you have not had a GA you can build your UU past when it has been replaced by techs/newer unit.
 
WillowBrook said:
And what about wars between other civs?
This is a point I think we should consider soon. It would be nice to get some wars started as it should slow the tech pace and get AI forces scattered all over the map.
As an example, let's say something like Japan versus France, Vikings Versus China, Iroquois versus England, Mongols versus America and Carthage versus India.
The AI would be sending its forces everywhere and allow us to concentrate on one at a time. I think it would require us to ally with those close to us and declare on those further away. After 20 turns, we can choose who we go after. It will require that we think 20 turns out though. :eek:
 
I was thinking about starting some wars like that after I played too, thou france/japan war would not work too well, since I paid france gpt (unless we want to break rep this early).
Declaring on france would break rep, and we dont have any tech to give them for an alliance vs japan (would not want a war vs japan anyway since they would send their forces to us instead of france most likely)

best would be to decare on faraway civs, and allly all our nearby civs vs the far away civs (to prevent them from being allied vs us)
 
Your point about keeping our Rep intact is well made. I was trying to give examples of wars that might benefit us by spreading out the AI's forces and require them to send them long distances away from their home turf. This would decrease their effective numbers against us when we decide to evict them from their territory. :evil:

I think M-B did quite a masterful job of making this more difficult for apangea game by using water effectively to make it more difficult for us to get to Japan, for instance. This could work to our advantage as well. :devil: The AI is seriously hadicapped in amphibious ops. If we could set it up so that Japanese forces move overland to get at us, through hostile territory (our allies) while we have just enough transports to get our guys over the short hop of water, we could maybe catch them with their pants down. :mischief: Perhaps some food for thought and discussion? :D

That would give us a nice second core, perhaps. :cool:
 
Turn 80 1000 BC Preflight
F1: Slider 8.1.1, 3gpt net income, 23gpt to other civs. 100 gold in treasury. 19+1gpt are going to France, 3gpt to Iroquois. In four turns 4gpt of this ends.

Entremont - 8 shields in the box, building settler. Pop 5, no food. 4fpt.
Switch to river/forest for 2 turns at 8spt and extra gpt, then one turn on BG at 7spt will bring the settler in three turns.

Mohacs - is going to take 2 turns to grow anyway, so MM it off the wheat for a turn, 5 shields + 1 from the grass about to be mined. This will pop the settler next turn. Give the wheat to Lugdonum.

Camulodonum - 3spt, at 4fpt. 5 shields to build settler, but growth next turn will generate 2 more shields, popping settler.

We now have 6 gpt.

F4:
There are map deals out there. Trade WMs and make 90 gold and we now have pretty much the whole land/coast map.
There are two major land masses - north and south.

The northern land mass is a complete circle wrapping east/west with a narrow tundra bridge in the east, between the Vikings and France. The northern civs are England, America, Babylon, Vikings - narrow tundra bridge - France.

The southern land mass is alomost complete, broken by the straits between us and Japan. The civs here are Mongols, China, Keltoi - water - Japan, Iroquois, neoCarthage. China has already planted a foothold town south of America.

They are connected by one land bridge north of India, sparcely populated, with lots of jungle.

F8: Re. fomenting wars, the power curve shows Japan, France, China, Babylon, America as the biggies. Two of these are our nearest neighbours, the others are in the north. Maybe we want to set up alliances with China and Japan against Babylon and America.

Checking our research status: even at 44 gpt Republic would still take 24 more turns, so it's at least 1000 gold :hmm: The 1st level MA techs would take 30+ turns at that rate. The research rate seems to be geared to a very big map, and we are well advised to be operating at 10%, or even single scientist later.

OK. Next turn:

IBT
Mongol unit south of Gergovia moves west into fog. Barb galleys move. Mohacs settler->settler.
Iroquois are building the GLibrary.

Turn 81 975 BC
Damn! 2 extra shields in Camuldonum from growth, but one was waste, so we didn't pop the settler.
Settler to the forest, now as we can reach it by road. Worker to plains/river to road to the next northern site.
MM everywhere. Camulodonum single scientist for a turn until settler pops. Slider 9.0.1, 9gpt.
Indian worker on BG starts road. Worker moves to grass SW of Entremont and starts mine. Elite warrior near mountain barb camp moves towards it. Combat calculator gives him 69% probability. As we have all contacts and most of the map, exploring is mostly done, so I guess we can take a small risk with him now. Elites have low value in this game, as leaders can only rush buildings or build armies. From the mountain we see a carthage warrior wandering around the jungle.
Trade map again for a few shekels. The nearest barb camps seem to some distance away, nearer to the AI than to us. I assume the end-era uprising has happened?

Tech parity with America, Japan, France, China, England,
Ahead Construction on India, Carthage
Ahead Currency & Construction on Babylon, Mongols, Iroquois, Vikings
Ahead Currency & Construction & Literature on Mongols

IBT
Only barbs move. Camulodonum settler->settler.

Turn 82 950 BC
Settler builds Eboracum in north starts worker. Warrior kills barb camp for 25 gold -1hp. New settler to site 2 tiles SE of Camulodonum. Worker starts road on plains tile in NE. MM everywhere, slider back to 8.1.1, 5gpt.
Buy a worker from Carthage 26+WM

IBT
Entremont settler->warrior. Forbidden Palace offer. Lugdonum warrior->warrior. Gergovia worker->worker. America building Great Wall,

Turn 83 925 BC
Worker SW of Mohacs starts mine on river/grass. Worker near Lugdonum starts mine. Workers south of Entremont head for new tiles to road to unconnected towns. Settler SE of Camulodonum builds Burdigala, starts temple vs Shimonoseki border nad to expand to capture dyes. Warrior explorer N on mountains, expanding map. Optimise MPs so that we can zero the lux slider. 9.1.0 for 12 gpt.
F4 no change.

IBT
Augustodorum worker->barracks.

Turn 84 900 BC
Workers start roads in south. Explorer warrior N to end of mountain peninsula. Settler towards site North of Lugdorum. Adjust MPs again, MM, keep sliders at 9.1.0. Two small gpt deals have ended and we now have 17gpt.
WM seems to be out of date. Buy China's for 4+WM, then sell it around for 33 gold.
Babylon has Monotheism. He made it to the MA. India, Carthage and Mongols are also at parity. So I guess Babs researched Lit or construction and swapped around to get everyone up to MA. Iroquois and Vikings still need Currency and construction. Babylon won't deal on Monotheism, of course.

IBT
Entremont warrior->settler. Carthage completes Great Library. Cascade .. China, England->Great Wall. England completes great wall.

Turn 85 875 BC
Settler to NE city location. Worker starts irrigating plains tile.
Mohacs a scientist for one turn, slider to 10.0.0, 23gpt.
Sell WM around again. India has some cash now, gives 20 for a WM. Buy England's updates and sell them on for around 15 profit.

IBT
Lugdonum warrior->warrior

Turn 86 850 BC
Settler builds Cataractonium on NE coast, starts worker. Slider 9.1.1 18gpt. Republic in 18 turns. Scouting warrior fortifies to heal.

IBT zzzz

Turn 87 825 BC
Japan, Babylon have Mono and Republic. England has Republic. We could buy either for everything we've got with the slider at 10.0.0. After adjustments, slider at 8.1.1 -> 24gpt.

IBT Mongol archer approaching from the south. Barb galleys give sailing lessons. Mohacs settler->settler. Camulodonum settler->settler.

Turn 88 800 BC
Mohacs settler heads west to build SW of Verulamium. Camulodonum settler south. She'll build between Augustodorum and Burdigala. Warrior scout south.
Carthage has Rewpublic and Mono. Still no deals. Slider 8.1.1, 19gpt. F8: neoCarthage seems to be building up.

IBT
Japanese galley heading down the straits. Pursued by barb galleys.
Entremont settler->warrior. Lugdonum warrior->warrior. Richborough granary->settler. Verulamium barracks->warrior. Agedincum worker->barracks.

Turn 89 775 BC
MM everthing. Move three settlers into position. F4 - France has Republic, no deals.

IBT
America offers WM swap. Counter - get 1 gold for it.

Turn 90 750 BC
Build Lapurdum in the west radius 5, Ratae Coritanorum radius 3 west, Tolosa radius 5 south.

After action report
A heavy building set. We have 15 towns, with two more radius 3 sites to fill and radius 5 complete. Entremont is on the warrior phase of its six turn warrior/settler cycle. Mohacs and Camuldonum are building settlers, and Richborough has just completed its granary, which will fill next turn. They all need to be MM'd every turn.

We have 15 warriors, and enough gold to upgrade 5 of them at 80 per unit. We are generating 28 gpt, which will increase by 19gpt at the end of the next set, as our French debts are paid off. I haven't looked at F4 this turn. We should probably get some wars going, but I didn't want to spend the cash for embassies and alliances in case I had a chance to trade for a 2-fer on Republic/Mono. This didn't happen :(

Have fun. Here's the map of our cute little civilization.
 

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Gyathaar
AlanH just played
Tomoyo UP
leif erikson On deck
WillowBrook
DJMGator13

All yours, Tomoyo.
 
Very nice building set Alan. :goodjob: A little different from SGOTM05? :rolleyes:

Difficult decisions ahead. What do we use the Gold for; upgrades, embassies and/or alliances?

It is nice to see the Great Library got built not too far from home. I think we might need it a little later on. :mischief:
 
I should have mentioned in my hand-down report that there's a temple we can pop rush in 3 turns in Burdigala. The worker's roading the dyes so they should then fall into our radius by the end of the next turn set.

Presumably the barb uprisings weren't near enough to upset our military adviser. The only places they could have originated were on that peninsula south of us, or to the west. There was a Mongol archer scouting south who would have stopped any camp forming or killed it, and I guess the Chinese and Mongols may have dealt with any western threats.
 
Guess it is time for some dot-maps for cities since we will be done with the rings before next player is finished.
I will make some dots to discuss :)
 
This is the northern area:
Xt750BCn.jpg


The 3 red dots will claim the majority of the land, the blue dots are fill in cities, and the green dots will invade on other civs cultural borders..
 
This is southwestern part:
Xt750BCsw.jpg


The mountains and coast makes it hard to follow strict ICS, so I tried to place on hills or tundra when possible.
The pink dots is ontop of spices so should build towards that one first
 
Not got it. I will wait for some discussion.

Hard to find a way to criticise your dot map, though.
 
Haven't studied the map but I'd say keep expanding til the land is gone. Might as well grab as much land as possible.

Do we have horses in our area? If so we might want to push forward to MT before doing major fighting. We can always build a handful of our UU and cherry pick a redlined defender with it to kick off a GA later. A later GA would help in getting us to Replaceable Parts and a nice TOE prebuild with the shield bonus.

We should also build up a sizeable worker force to be able to road all our cities and be prepared for RR.
 
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