NW, NW (or 3 NW) also gives a 4 turn settler factory after chopping the game.. thou moving to the mountain may unveil other resources too
SGOTM6 - Xteam
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
Tomoyo
Fate
Hey! We're the first team to page two! 
Moving NW NW will get us the factory, of course, but, also, we can benefit from a chopped granary. If we time that correctly, it will be very beneficial. The downside is that we will need more worker turns to set it up.
Moving NW NW will get us the factory, of course, but, also, we can benefit from a chopped granary. If we time that correctly, it will be very beneficial. The downside is that we will need more worker turns to set it up.
Keep up the good work guys. Sorry I've not been joining in, but it looks like you are working it out well between you. Sound like a bit of spreadsheet work may be needed to work out the way to the fastest start. My 2¢ ...
The worker turns for the NW/NW game option are quite extensive, but I think I'd be tempted to road the BG, and irrigate and road the wheat to get to +4fpt by the time the city expands, and do the game later. Irrigating the game requires about 20 turns, four of which are 'wasted' irrigating the BG to get water to it.
The NE/NE option gets us to 5fpt as soon as the town expands on turn 12 if we irrigate immediately, and the worker can do a road first to accelerate Pottery research during the initial turns. I'm not sure whether there are enough shields in this location, though. We could do with a forest to get the growth bonuses, and I don't see one, though a mined plain or hill would be an option.
The worker turns for the NW/NW game option are quite extensive, but I think I'd be tempted to road the BG, and irrigate and road the wheat to get to +4fpt by the time the city expands, and do the game later. Irrigating the game requires about 20 turns, four of which are 'wasted' irrigating the BG to get water to it.
The NE/NE option gets us to 5fpt as soon as the town expands on turn 12 if we irrigate immediately, and the worker can do a road first to accelerate Pottery research during the initial turns. I'm not sure whether there are enough shields in this location, though. We could do with a forest to get the growth bonuses, and I don't see one, though a mined plain or hill would be an option.
Another option is to instead of setting up a 4 turn settler factory, we can set up three 6 turn military/settler factories instead.. one food bonus for each
hmm.. to be sure to be able to bring in the cow without having to build temples first, we eithet have to buid at starting position or NE,NE... (unless we want to move towards tundra with capital)
If we build at starting spot, a RCP of distance 3 seems best.. if we build NE,NE.. the capital can be a 4 turn settler factory untill we have more cities buildt.. then we can build a town on the tundra 3 S in RCP distance 4 to work the cow, and another at 3E to work the deer.. and one 4 SW to bring in the BG tiles.. hard to say how RCP 4 will work in the north thou..
If we build at starting spot, a RCP of distance 3 seems best.. if we build NE,NE.. the capital can be a 4 turn settler factory untill we have more cities buildt.. then we can build a town on the tundra 3 S in RCP distance 4 to work the cow, and another at 3E to work the deer.. and one 4 SW to bring in the BG tiles.. hard to say how RCP 4 will work in the north thou..
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Would it be worth moving the worker NW to the MT and then post a screen shot to help further our discussion. That would openup about 12 more tiles and should help determine where to put our cities.
Any thoughts on a roster order, how about starting off with our cultural expert?
Proposed Roster
Gyathaar
AlanH
Tomoyo
leif
WillowBrook
Gator
Any thoughts on a roster order, how about starting off with our cultural expert?
Proposed Roster
Gyathaar
AlanH
Tomoyo
leif
WillowBrook
Gator
Since I am new to SGOTM, I am wondering about some things..
How does the save games thing work? You upload them into a special server?
Can anyone in team take the save out again to look at it?
What about images? Is just the normal upload feature used there?
How does the save games thing work? You upload them into a special server?
Can anyone in team take the save out again to look at it?
What about images? Is just the normal upload feature used there?
Saves are uploaded here, which is as simple a page as I could make it. You upload a manually saved file, and the software extracts the score, date, team name, and does other checking stuff.
The latest file for each team is listed here, along with a graph/listing showing relative Firaxis score progress, and that's where our start file will appear when the game starts.
We write up the turn log and post it in this thread, with images uploaded in the usual way. When you upload your file you get a download link that you can copy and paste as a file link in your turn log if you like. But usually I just go to the results page to get the latest file. Any team members are free to download their team file, but it would be considered cheating to download another team's file.
The latest file for each team is listed here, along with a graph/listing showing relative Firaxis score progress, and that's where our start file will appear when the game starts.
We write up the turn log and post it in this thread, with images uploaded in the usual way. When you upload your file you get a download link that you can copy and paste as a file link in your turn log if you like. But usually I just go to the results page to get the latest file. Any team members are free to download their team file, but it would be considered cheating to download another team's file.
Capt Buttkick
Emperor
lurker's comment: I'm not sure why you'd want to irrigate the game. Irrigated wheat + mined game should be enough for a 4-turn factory, shouldn't it?AlanH said:
Size 4.5:
City square +2 food, +1 shield
Irrigated Wheat +2 food
Mined game +1 food, +1 shield
Mined BG +2 shields
Mined BG +2 shields
Expand to forest for +2 shields
= +5 food +8 shields
I hope I'm not imposing since I'm not playing this particular sgotm, but I'd also like to add that consideration might be taken for NW-NW's more central position; thus increasing the number of cities, at least in the second ring.
lurker's comment: Hi captain, how's the house going?Capt Buttkick said:lurker's comment: I'm not sure why you'd want to irrigate the game. Irrigated wheat + mined game should be enough for a 4-turn factory, shouldn't it?
Sure, but if you can get more food and share it with other towns you get faster growth. In despotism food is population is power, and we are going to be despots for a looog time. If we need the mine for shields then fine, but there seem to be lots of forests and hills and BG around that location.
Sorry I've been absent, good discussion! 
RL and GOTM 39 have had me busy, but GOTM 39 is submitted...
I'm not a very good fog gazer, but it looks like plains to the NE to me. I was also thinking about the chances for the water being fresh and how long it will take to get a worker to that cow?
I'm wondering if there would be a benefit to RCP 3 and setting it up so that we could trade off food resources between cities as they are needed. Keeping track of the MM frightens me.
I'm afraid I have no idea of what 300 cities will look like!
And while I have read about ICS, I have never tried it. Does it look like CxCxCxC? Will this apply to the core as well?
RL and GOTM 39 have had me busy, but GOTM 39 is submitted... I'm not a very good fog gazer, but it looks like plains to the NE to me. I was also thinking about the chances for the water being fresh and how long it will take to get a worker to that cow?
I'm wondering if there would be a benefit to RCP 3 and setting it up so that we could trade off food resources between cities as they are needed. Keeping track of the MM frightens me.
I'm afraid I have no idea of what 300 cities will look like!
And while I have read about ICS, I have never tried it. Does it look like CxCxCxC? Will this apply to the core as well?
We will want 2 rings of RCP in the core so we have something to drive research.. we will prolly want to build the FP in the core, and then jump the palace to another place (by abandoning since we cant rush palace with leader) so we can have 2 cores.
After we reach domination limit however, and the rest of the lands is filled there is no reason to not fill in the holes in the 2 cores aswell thou.
If you have no idea idea how 300 cities look like... try to download my 100k save from chieftain.. its only around 230 cities I think, but that was on a 25% smaller map, and I was far from domination limit really...
The fun part is in the culture rush period.. where if you want effective rushing we will have to scroll though every city and rush and/or MM for growth every turn for around 30-50 turns...
300 cities looks like very hard work. Luckily, once we reach communism they'll all be as corrupt as rusty iron. One trick I've seen is lots of palace jumps to create low corruption centres for a while, build temples and libraries there, then jump again. Rinse and repeat. Since we can't jump palaces with leaders in these rules, we'd have to use multiple free palace jumps if we want to try this.
I guess ICS will be required throughout eventually because city count is what ... counts and we don't want to trigger domination. So either our initial city planning needs to allow for infill towns to fit between our initial rings, or we go for RCP radius 3 and 5 from the outset.
[sorry] Crossposted. @Gyathaar: Will our limited govenment options have a big effect on the standard 100k strategy?
I guess ICS will be required throughout eventually because city count is what ... counts and we don't want to trigger domination. So either our initial city planning needs to allow for infill towns to fit between our initial rings, or we go for RCP radius 3 and 5 from the outset.
[sorry] Crossposted. @Gyathaar: Will our limited govenment options have a big effect on the standard 100k strategy?
Wrote down some stategies that I see for this game (I prolly forgot some things, and proll several typos 
):
First.. Domination limit asap.. with as many cities as possible.. this is the main objective.
1) prolly start with settler rush.
2) since this is emperor, the core cities with low food should start building military.. horses, warriors or gaelic swordsmen most likely..
3) we dont have to worry about despotic GA.. we want that.. prolly around when we have about 40-50 cities.
4) we want to kill off all but one scientific civs (for their free tech when entering new age). Thou if more than one is alive when we reach domination limit, no big deal.
5) use RCP in core with 2 rings, outside this ICS.
6) 100x130 pangea means we will end up with around 275-325 cities when staying within domination limit
7) only move city away from strict ICS placement if it means moving one tile puts it on coast or river, or staying in ICS means building on a food resource
8) coastal cities will need harbors and markets so they can all be fishing villages to support building maintainance in communism
9) build only settlers and military, no culture buildings in the ICS part on lands untill we have reached near domination limit.
10) core cities should get temple,libraries,universities,cathedrals in that order
11) all other cities should get temple,library,cathedral,university
if a city is low on food, make it build temple, worker, library followed by workers instead of settlers (unless coastal.. then should build harbor/market before anything else)
12) the following techs are required, in the following priority:
literature,steam,nationalism,communism,replaceable parts
rails will boost us more than switching to communism
13) we need to control as many luxes as possible, preferably all 8
14) we must get hold of pyramids asap, pyramids will double pop rushing capabilities of culture buildings.
15) we should seek to get JS Bachs, Sixtine and Smiths as soon as we can, in that priority.
16) once domination limit is reached, halt all wars and expansion.. we want our lands to be as concentrated as possible so we can fit more towns inside the culture bounderies. Having all towns as consentrated as possible is much more important than working high food tiles.
17) once (near) domination is reached and rest of lands is filled with cities, turn the core(s) into ICS placed cities aswell.
18) when in the poprushing culture phase... if a city has to work a 1 or 2 food tile, poprush the low food citizen(s) away if possible by shortrushing another build (unless the build was just started). This means we have to scroll though every town every turn.. its easiest to start with the capital and keep scrolling untill you eventually get back to the capital again. Barracks (since military) and explorers are 20 shields. Caelic swordsmen are 40 shields. If coastal harbors and frigates are 60 shields. Libraries and catherals are 80 shields.
19) in the poprushing phase turns will prolly take 1-2 hours each.
20) if a city can make 10+ fpt it can draft an infantery every turn, and should be doing that instead of poprushing untill it gets too unhappy
21) if a town can make 5 food per turn, it will be able to rush temple in 2 or 4 turns, library in 8 turns, cathedral in 8 turns.. and university in 20 turns.. will be making 12 cpt after 40 turns
22) if a town can make 4 food per turn, it can make temple in max 6 turns, library in 12 and cathedral in 12.. 8 cpt after 30 turns
23) if a city makes 3 fpt, it can make temple in max 8 turns, library in 16, cathedral in 16.. 8 cpt after 40 turns
24) about 10% of cities will make 10+ fpt, 40% of cities will make 5+ fpt, 40% 4 fpt and around 10% 3 or lower.. This depends on how many hills and mountains there are ofcourse.
25) after 30 turns of rushing we can expect on average 10cpt per city, and with about 300 cities the win will max be around 15-20 turns away.
26) if we can reach near domination limit and have rails by 700AD, we should be able to win around 1200AD
27) I should have mentioned this earlier.. but we need lots of workers..
28) coastal cities should have their more expensive cultural improvements rushed by disbanding units instead of poprushing if possible.. reason is we will need them at a good size to finance all our culture buildings. poprushing temple is fine.
Edit: fixed some errors
):First.. Domination limit asap.. with as many cities as possible.. this is the main objective.
1) prolly start with settler rush.
2) since this is emperor, the core cities with low food should start building military.. horses, warriors or gaelic swordsmen most likely..
3) we dont have to worry about despotic GA.. we want that.. prolly around when we have about 40-50 cities.
4) we want to kill off all but one scientific civs (for their free tech when entering new age). Thou if more than one is alive when we reach domination limit, no big deal.
5) use RCP in core with 2 rings, outside this ICS.
6) 100x130 pangea means we will end up with around 275-325 cities when staying within domination limit
7) only move city away from strict ICS placement if it means moving one tile puts it on coast or river, or staying in ICS means building on a food resource
8) coastal cities will need harbors and markets so they can all be fishing villages to support building maintainance in communism
9) build only settlers and military, no culture buildings in the ICS part on lands untill we have reached near domination limit.
10) core cities should get temple,libraries,universities,cathedrals in that order
11) all other cities should get temple,library,cathedral,university
if a city is low on food, make it build temple, worker, library followed by workers instead of settlers (unless coastal.. then should build harbor/market before anything else)
12) the following techs are required, in the following priority:
literature,steam,nationalism,communism,replaceable parts
rails will boost us more than switching to communism
13) we need to control as many luxes as possible, preferably all 8
14) we must get hold of pyramids asap, pyramids will double pop rushing capabilities of culture buildings.
15) we should seek to get JS Bachs, Sixtine and Smiths as soon as we can, in that priority.
16) once domination limit is reached, halt all wars and expansion.. we want our lands to be as concentrated as possible so we can fit more towns inside the culture bounderies. Having all towns as consentrated as possible is much more important than working high food tiles.
17) once (near) domination is reached and rest of lands is filled with cities, turn the core(s) into ICS placed cities aswell.
18) when in the poprushing culture phase... if a city has to work a 1 or 2 food tile, poprush the low food citizen(s) away if possible by shortrushing another build (unless the build was just started). This means we have to scroll though every town every turn.. its easiest to start with the capital and keep scrolling untill you eventually get back to the capital again. Barracks (since military) and explorers are 20 shields. Caelic swordsmen are 40 shields. If coastal harbors and frigates are 60 shields. Libraries and catherals are 80 shields.
19) in the poprushing phase turns will prolly take 1-2 hours each.
20) if a city can make 10+ fpt it can draft an infantery every turn, and should be doing that instead of poprushing untill it gets too unhappy
21) if a town can make 5 food per turn, it will be able to rush temple in 2 or 4 turns, library in 8 turns, cathedral in 8 turns.. and university in 20 turns.. will be making 12 cpt after 40 turns
22) if a town can make 4 food per turn, it can make temple in max 6 turns, library in 12 and cathedral in 12.. 8 cpt after 30 turns
23) if a city makes 3 fpt, it can make temple in max 8 turns, library in 16, cathedral in 16.. 8 cpt after 40 turns
24) about 10% of cities will make 10+ fpt, 40% of cities will make 5+ fpt, 40% 4 fpt and around 10% 3 or lower.. This depends on how many hills and mountains there are ofcourse.
25) after 30 turns of rushing we can expect on average 10cpt per city, and with about 300 cities the win will max be around 15-20 turns away.
26) if we can reach near domination limit and have rails by 700AD, we should be able to win around 1200AD
27) I should have mentioned this earlier.. but we need lots of workers..
28) coastal cities should have their more expensive cultural improvements rushed by disbanding units instead of poprushing if possible.. reason is we will need them at a good size to finance all our culture buildings. poprushing temple is fine.
Edit: fixed some errors
I use communism for poprushing to build culture buildings fast in 100k games.. I only normally use republic to be able to research to communism faster
Using ICS, what size will the cities grow to? With both Despotism and Communism, we have to use pop rush, iirc. Will the cities grow enough in size to make pop rushing effective? I've done a little here and there, but never on this scale.
Thanks Gyathaar, I'll go have a look at that save! Should be enlightening.
On palace jumping, iirc, that won't help much in communism as the corruption is spread out evenly amongst the cities. I can't recall the palace ot FP cities getting much of a break in that. I do remember building courthouses in all my cities though and it helped. But if we turn to pop rushing, perhaps we need more food than shields?
Thanks Gyathaar, I'll go have a look at that save! Should be enlightening.
On palace jumping, iirc, that won't help much in communism as the corruption is spread out evenly amongst the cities. I can't recall the palace ot FP cities getting much of a break in that. I do remember building courthouses in all my cities though and it helped. But if we turn to pop rushing, perhaps we need more food than shields?
A city never has to grow above size 4 to be able to poprush temple,library and cathedral (not sure on university since we are not scientific.. will have to check that)
size 2: rush barrack (or explorer), swap back to cathedral/library
down to size 1
size 2: rush caelic swordsman (usually barracks when not militaristic), swap back to cath/lib
down to size 1
at size 4: rush cath or library
this can also be done at size 3,3,4(or 5) if the town can work more than one 3+ food tile so the city can grow faster.. there is generally no need to ever have more than 5 fpt thou unless you can reach 10.. better to give the high food tile to another town.
We want everything irrigated and railed..
a city that makes +5 fpt produce 10 shields per turn no matter how corrupt it is.. (assuming we have pyramids)
+4 ftp is 20 shields per 3 turns
+3 fpt is 20 shields per 4 turns
so a city that works a railed irrigated plains tile and nothing else, still produce 5 shields per turn from poprushing...
@Gyathaar - Thanks for all the info. Your strategies list was particularly good. I'll have to print it out and hang it on my wall!
It appears this is going to be like playing 2 games. The first part will be hell bent for leather bloodlust and the second will be a builder's paradise. Food is even more important than ever, as it becomes the shields we need. I guess I'm going to learn the art of pop rushing in this one...
I've got your 100K save and will check it after dinner. Once we get to the second part of this game, we may want to think about 5 turns per set as I know I'll never be able to concentrate for that long MM without screwing up something!!
It appears this is going to be like playing 2 games. The first part will be hell bent for leather bloodlust and the second will be a builder's paradise. Food is even more important than ever, as it becomes the shields we need.
I guess I'm going to learn the art of pop rushing in this one... I've got your 100K save and will check it after dinner. Once we get to the second part of this game, we may want to think about 5 turns per set as I know I'll never be able to concentrate for that long MM without screwing up something!!
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