I the red civ to the east connected by land or is there water between?
SGOTM6 - Xteam
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
I am wondering if that red city could connect to us by going south and east through the tundra? I don't think it is high priority to check it out right now, but when we have more units and time...
Thinking things over, I would like to change the warrior build to a worker and cover Mohaacs with the 5/5 Archer just north as it looks like he is surrouinded by water and won't be going anywhere exciting. Besides, producing workers will keep us from needing any MP support for a while.
Also, I'm not sure I see a good reason not to settle NE, NE and E with this settler, although I'm certainly open to other options.
I'm working on how to extend WillowBrook's script. It is not my strongest ability so I need to struggle with it a while this evening and then I'll move it along.
Thinking things over, I would like to change the warrior build to a worker and cover Mohaacs with the 5/5 Archer just north as it looks like he is surrouinded by water and won't be going anywhere exciting. Besides, producing workers will keep us from needing any MP support for a while.
Also, I'm not sure I see a good reason not to settle NE, NE and E with this settler, although I'm certainly open to other options.
I'm working on how to extend WillowBrook's script. It is not my strongest ability so I need to struggle with it a while this evening and then I'll move it along.
WillowBrook
Lurker
This is contiguous pangea - so we connect somewhere, but given Mad-bax's creativity, we may have to travel half the world to get there by land.
My vote is to settle our current settler in the #4 spot on Tomoyo's map. If that town works a BG, it can put out a warrior in 5, grow and have ten sheilds in the box 5 turns later, and pop a temple to grab the cow.
As for Entremont, I'd suggest a 6-turn warrior/settler factory until we get some more improvements. And if we want to risk barb pillaging and worker-chasing, I'd go for a worker in Mohacs and then a granary. The worker can irrigate the wheat and then chop the forest next to Mohacs - wait, does a forest chop outside the cultural borders still benefit the town?
My vote is to settle our current settler in the #4 spot on Tomoyo's map. If that town works a BG, it can put out a warrior in 5, grow and have ten sheilds in the box 5 turns later, and pop a temple to grab the cow.
As for Entremont, I'd suggest a 6-turn warrior/settler factory until we get some more improvements. And if we want to risk barb pillaging and worker-chasing, I'd go for a worker in Mohacs and then a granary. The worker can irrigate the wheat and then chop the forest next to Mohacs - wait, does a forest chop outside the cultural borders still benefit the town?
That's true. Also I haven't seen what Tomoyo may have discovered. Lat I saw the warrior was still walking west and was about to start coming back round from the east. So that water could be a complete break.WillowBrook said:
Sounds good.
Yes, as long as it's in the 21 tile footprint.
Should get a warrior down and explore the tundra to the south when we can btw. Furs and ivory is often found in tundra so.
Settler to spot number 4 then.
Change Mohaacs to worker with a priority to irrigate and road the wheat and then looking for a chop to support a Granary build.
The Warrior we are building in Entremont can go south and east once we have the silks connected. Keep the settlers rolling out of Entremont...
And,
I would be too scared to go to war with so few units! 
Now, give me 20 horsies and you never know how rash I might become!! 
Change Mohaacs to worker with a priority to irrigate and road the wheat and then looking for a chop to support a Granary build.
The Warrior we are building in Entremont can go south and east once we have the silks connected. Keep the settlers rolling out of Entremont...
And,
You know me better than that.AlanH said:
I would be too scared to go to war with so few units! Now, give me 20 horsies and you never know how rash I might become!!
I except we will be using gaelic swordsmen instead of horses in this game atleast untill we ge knights.. 3/2/2 unit for 50 shieldsleif erikson said:You know me better than that.
I've never played with the Euro Sword as far as I recall. I assume it has the usual fast unit retreat capability? It looks like a killer unit for the AA, although it's very expensive. None of the other AA UUs are over 30 shields. Interesting that it "upgrades" at Feudalism to a Frankish Axeman that costs less and moves slower. I'd need some convincing to do those upgrades.
In C3C it just costs 40 shields, and upgrades for free to MDI
It may not cost anything to upgrade here either. But losing movement of 2 to get an attack increase from 3 to 4 looks like a bad deal to me even if it costs nothing. An Axeman/MDI is similar to a longbow with a tad more defence and no defensive shot. I've generally cut them to pieces with fast units whenever I've found them on the other side. I generally don't build defenders or longbows, so an Axeman is a totally alien concept to me. But the last SGOTM and Gator01 have both shown me another aspect of civ3 that I still have to get used to - surviving while behind - and no doubt this one will throw some new curves as well.
I see no reason to upgrade them ever.. I will rather take a attack 3 fast unit than a slow attach 4 unit.. in addition we get 2 shields less for disbanding them in the late game
DJMGator13
Still breathing
I rarely build MDI in a normal game and I agree that we should not upgrade our UU to gain 1 attack. I will normally push attacks with horse and just wait for chivalry to upgrade them to knights.
As a long term goal do we plan on researching Chivalry or should we go straight for MT. The same reason not to upgrade our UU to MDI works for not researching Chivalry (attack 3 vrs 4 and 50 vrs 70 shields). I see us doing alot of fighting with our UU swords.
As a long term goal do we plan on researching Chivalry or should we go straight for MT. The same reason not to upgrade our UU to MDI works for not researching Chivalry (attack 3 vrs 4 and 50 vrs 70 shields). I see us doing alot of fighting with our UU swords.
It's not quite the same, as the extra 20 shields for a knight over a Eurosword buy you the extra attack without a loss of movement, and make attacks on pikes much more decisive. Euroswords can keep up with knights, and pick off the old wounded units. MT will take a lot more turns than chivalry - 5 techs vs 1, assuming all the first level MA techs are available anyway (Monotheism is the MA freebie for scientific civs in vanilla). I'm assuming we need to start conquering early to expand to the domination limit fast.
Tomoyo
Fate
Note: I did not discover a link to the red civ (Japan). It seems that it is a very short ferry over. I bet MB made the map so that we have to go all the way to the other side of the map to get there by land.
Euroswords don't upgrade to Cavs for 20 Gold each either!
While I don't think we'll need to research Chivalry, we shouldn't turn it down should it present itself to us.
While I don't think we'll need to research Chivalry, we shouldn't turn it down should it present itself to us.
We have a couple of new cities and some tech. However, we're going to have to get some workers.
<< THE SAVE >>
The turn log:
Turn 40 2150 BC Pre-flight.
Change build in Mohacs to Worker.
Look long and hard at Entremont. It needs more worker turns to pump out settlers, not enough shields yet. But we'll try.
Settler NE.
Press enter
IBT
ZZzzzz
Turn 41 2110 BC
eArcher NW onto hill, meets a Chinese rArcher 2 squares NW.
Settler NE.
EqWorker SE onto game.
Exploring Warrior E onto mountain.
Change lux slider from 30% to 20%, roading the silk must have given enough gold to make them happy at 20%.
IBT
Chinese rArcher neads NW away from us.
Entremont Warrior => Settler.
Turn 42 2070 BC
eArcher W onto hill.
Settler E.
Warrior fortifies in Entremont.
eqWorker roads.
Exploring Warrior NW.
MM Entremont from rforest (10) to rBG (19) for growth in 1.
Mohacs grew to size 2, so I cant reduce lux tax, yet.
Our friends NeoCarthage and Japan have Alphabet and will trade it for contact, should I do so? The Mongols and Chinese do not have it so we could use it to trade. Were making 8 GPT so I decide to hold it for a while.
IBT
A Japanese Warrior stands on OUR cow!
Mohacs Worker => Granary.
Turn 43 2030 BC
eArcher fortifies on the hill facing a Chinese rArcher.
Worker E onto wheat.
Settler founds the town of Lugdunum, starts a Warrior.
Exploring Warrior N, meets a Barb Warrior.
MM Entremont by moving citizen from square 2 to 20 to allow Lugdunum citizen to work a BG. Mohacs works the wheat.
Lux remains at 20%.
Wow,
the Japanese know Babylon, France, England, India, the Vikings and the Americans. They do not yet know the Mongols or Chinese.
The neoCarthaginians know the same civs as the Japanese but do not yet know the Mongols or Chinese. NeoCarthage is nearly on top of the Mongols, so this wont last much longer.
Trades. These AI civs sure have a lot of gold, where are they getting it from??
Visit Hannabaline and trade Contact with the Chinese and Mongols for Alphabet, Bronze Working and 17 Gold.
Visit the Chinese and trade Alphabet for The Wheel plus 17 Gold.
Visit the Mongols and trdae Alphabet for Masonry plus 11 Gold.
Visit the Japanese and trade Contact with the Chinese and Mongols plus 66 Gold for Iron Working.
There is Iron
located 4 squares northwest of Entremont (One square west of red dot number 8 on the city site map) and on the hill east of our cow (the Japanese have claimed it).
IBT
Our Exploring Warrior is attacked by the Barb and redlined!
Turn 44 1990 BC
Worker irrigates.
Exploring Warrior NE onto mountain.
eArcher S.
IBT
Our worker has completed the road and we have silks in Entremont.
A Chinese vWarrior shows up near our silks.
Turn 45 1950 BC
eArcher fortifies.
eqWorker S.
Exploring Warrior fortifies to heal.
MM Entremont for 4 food to grow next turn, citizen from rForest (10) to BG (13).
Lux slider to 10%, making 12 GPT.
All the civs we know have Writing, Mysticism and HBR. Were still too poor to trade.
IBT
Chinese vWarrior moves next to our worker, hes polite so Im going to try not to worry.
Mongol Scout wanders by eArcher.
Entremont grows to size 6.
Turn 46 1910 BC
eqWorker roads.
MM Entremont by moving the citizen from the BG (13) to an rG (5) for gold production, settler in 1.
Lux slider to 20%.
IBT
Nice and peaceful
Entremont Settler => Warrior.
The Japanese have established an embassy in our capital.
The Iroquois are building The Oracle.
Turn 47 1870 BC
As much as Id like to establish that iron as ours, I send the settler S.
Exploring Warrior N.
Lux slider to 0%.
IBT
We discover Mysticism. Set research to Polytheism at 10%.
Lugdunum Warrior => Temple.
Turn 48 1830 BC
Worker near Mohacs roads.
Warrior in Lugdunum fortifies.
Settler S.
Exploring Warrior NE, bypassing the Barb Camp (dont want to lose him to the RNG).
Cant MM Entremont for food because if I do, the warrior wont complete. That will screw things up a little but
IBT
The Chinese request an audience and offer contact with the Babylonians for 50 Gold. I apologize and show them the door.
Entremont Warrior => Settler.
The Mongols are building The Oracle.
Turn 49 - 1790 BC
Warrior S from Entremont.
eqWorker mones.
Settler founds the town of Camulodunum and starts a Barracks.
Exploring Warrior N.
MM Entremont for shields, citizens working 10, 11, 14, 15, and 17 at size 4.
Lux to 20% for Mohacs.
IBT
ZZzzzz
Turn 50 1750 BC
Warrior S into Camulodunum.
Exploring Warrior N, sees more Barbs, including a horseman, but also finds a GH.
MM Entremont for food, move citizen from square 17 to 19.
We have 4 cities with 9 citizens. Entremont is at size 5 and can be on 10% lux, but Mohacs cant. Next Warrior should, perhaps, go there until a road is completed. We are researching Polytheism as at 10% as all the other techs we could research have been discovered. We know all the starting techs plus Iron Working and Mysticism. We should be able to purchase Writing during the next turn set. HBR is also available but we have no visible horses, ATM. We are making 15 GPT.
Our neighbors know a lot of other civs that we dont so our exploring warrior has much to do. The AI civs all know one another but have not traded our contact around, which I think is interesting. We shold be able to pop rush a temple in Lugdunum in 3 turns.
Iron is available to us and we should discuss whether to claim it with the next settler or not. The iron is located where our number 8 city would go on the dot map.
Please feel free to change any build. I tried to note in the turn log where the citizens were as MM happened, hope it isn't too bad.
Entremont needs some more shield production.
Good luck WillowBrook!!
A picture is worth????
<< THE SAVE >>
The turn log:
Turn 40 2150 BC Pre-flight.
Change build in Mohacs to Worker.
Look long and hard at Entremont. It needs more worker turns to pump out settlers, not enough shields yet. But we'll try.
Settler NE.
Press enter
IBT
ZZzzzz
Turn 41 2110 BC
eArcher NW onto hill, meets a Chinese rArcher 2 squares NW.
Settler NE.
EqWorker SE onto game.
Exploring Warrior E onto mountain.
Change lux slider from 30% to 20%, roading the silk must have given enough gold to make them happy at 20%.
IBT
Chinese rArcher neads NW away from us.
Entremont Warrior => Settler.
Turn 42 2070 BC
eArcher W onto hill.
Settler E.
Warrior fortifies in Entremont.
eqWorker roads.
Exploring Warrior NW.
MM Entremont from rforest (10) to rBG (19) for growth in 1.
Mohacs grew to size 2, so I cant reduce lux tax, yet.
Our friends NeoCarthage and Japan have Alphabet and will trade it for contact, should I do so? The Mongols and Chinese do not have it so we could use it to trade. Were making 8 GPT so I decide to hold it for a while.
IBT
A Japanese Warrior stands on OUR cow!
Mohacs Worker => Granary.
Turn 43 2030 BC
eArcher fortifies on the hill facing a Chinese rArcher.
Worker E onto wheat.
Settler founds the town of Lugdunum, starts a Warrior.
Exploring Warrior N, meets a Barb Warrior.
MM Entremont by moving citizen from square 2 to 20 to allow Lugdunum citizen to work a BG. Mohacs works the wheat.
Lux remains at 20%.
Wow,
the Japanese know Babylon, France, England, India, the Vikings and the Americans. They do not yet know the Mongols or Chinese.The neoCarthaginians know the same civs as the Japanese but do not yet know the Mongols or Chinese. NeoCarthage is nearly on top of the Mongols, so this wont last much longer.
Trades. These AI civs sure have a lot of gold, where are they getting it from??
Visit Hannabaline and trade Contact with the Chinese and Mongols for Alphabet, Bronze Working and 17 Gold.
Visit the Chinese and trade Alphabet for The Wheel plus 17 Gold.
Visit the Mongols and trdae Alphabet for Masonry plus 11 Gold.
Visit the Japanese and trade Contact with the Chinese and Mongols plus 66 Gold for Iron Working.
There is Iron
located 4 squares northwest of Entremont (One square west of red dot number 8 on the city site map) and on the hill east of our cow (the Japanese have claimed it).IBT
Our Exploring Warrior is attacked by the Barb and redlined!
Turn 44 1990 BC
Worker irrigates.
Exploring Warrior NE onto mountain.
eArcher S.
IBT
Our worker has completed the road and we have silks in Entremont.
A Chinese vWarrior shows up near our silks.
Turn 45 1950 BC
eArcher fortifies.
eqWorker S.
Exploring Warrior fortifies to heal.
MM Entremont for 4 food to grow next turn, citizen from rForest (10) to BG (13).
Lux slider to 10%, making 12 GPT.
All the civs we know have Writing, Mysticism and HBR. Were still too poor to trade.
IBT
Chinese vWarrior moves next to our worker, hes polite so Im going to try not to worry.
Mongol Scout wanders by eArcher.
Entremont grows to size 6.
Turn 46 1910 BC
eqWorker roads.
MM Entremont by moving the citizen from the BG (13) to an rG (5) for gold production, settler in 1.
Lux slider to 20%.
IBT
Nice and peaceful
Entremont Settler => Warrior.
The Japanese have established an embassy in our capital.
The Iroquois are building The Oracle.
Turn 47 1870 BC
As much as Id like to establish that iron as ours, I send the settler S.
Exploring Warrior N.
Lux slider to 0%.
IBT
We discover Mysticism. Set research to Polytheism at 10%.
Lugdunum Warrior => Temple.
Turn 48 1830 BC
Worker near Mohacs roads.
Warrior in Lugdunum fortifies.
Settler S.
Exploring Warrior NE, bypassing the Barb Camp (dont want to lose him to the RNG).
Cant MM Entremont for food because if I do, the warrior wont complete. That will screw things up a little but
IBT
The Chinese request an audience and offer contact with the Babylonians for 50 Gold. I apologize and show them the door.
Entremont Warrior => Settler.
The Mongols are building The Oracle.
Turn 49 - 1790 BC
Warrior S from Entremont.
eqWorker mones.
Settler founds the town of Camulodunum and starts a Barracks.
Exploring Warrior N.
MM Entremont for shields, citizens working 10, 11, 14, 15, and 17 at size 4.
Lux to 20% for Mohacs.
IBT
ZZzzzz
Turn 50 1750 BC
Warrior S into Camulodunum.
Exploring Warrior N, sees more Barbs, including a horseman, but also finds a GH.
MM Entremont for food, move citizen from square 17 to 19.
We have 4 cities with 9 citizens. Entremont is at size 5 and can be on 10% lux, but Mohacs cant. Next Warrior should, perhaps, go there until a road is completed. We are researching Polytheism as at 10% as all the other techs we could research have been discovered. We know all the starting techs plus Iron Working and Mysticism. We should be able to purchase Writing during the next turn set. HBR is also available but we have no visible horses, ATM. We are making 15 GPT.
Our neighbors know a lot of other civs that we dont so our exploring warrior has much to do. The AI civs all know one another but have not traded our contact around, which I think is interesting. We shold be able to pop rush a temple in Lugdunum in 3 turns.
Iron is available to us and we should discuss whether to claim it with the next settler or not. The iron is located where our number 8 city would go on the dot map.
Please feel free to change any build. I tried to note in the turn log where the citizens were as MM happened, hope it isn't too bad.
Entremont needs some more shield production. Good luck WillowBrook!!
A picture is worth????
Looks like we get another RCP 5 city on river.. 2N of Lugdunum
WillowBrook
Lurker
Got it! (Ooo - my first succession game "Got it" - how exciting! )
But before I play, some team discussion is in order
1. Should the next settler settle next to the iron? (Tomoyo's #8) Connecting/disconnecting will require roading/unroading the mountain itself, which would require more workers than if we didn't have a town at #8. But I'll let the military experts give their opinions here. If we don't settler dot #8, where should we go next?
2. Entremont: I'll see what I can work out as a food/production schedule to keep us getting a settler every six turns. I expect we'll have to go up to size six for a few turns every cycle, which will likely require the lux slider at 20%. But we will need MP in Mohacs soon anyway as it will grow past size 2 soon (but it will also be hooked to silks soon, too)
3. Camulodunum: What should we build here? I don't think we need a barracks immediately; I'm thinking another granary would be good; once the deer is chopped and watered, that's another 6-turn settler or 3-turn worker factory (probably workers to start, until the land is improved)
4. barbs: when is it best to attack, when should we let them attack, and when should we run away? I know about the defensive bonuses on different terrains, but I haven't calculated or gained a feel for how to best handle different situations.
5. The worker stuation: If I have things calculated correctly, Mohacs can finish its granary in 14 turns (without a forest chop), and then start pumping out 3-turn workers (some may be four turns at the beginning due to lack of sheilds). Until then, we'll have to make due. The sourthern worker is mining, and then I'll road to Camu (not sure which tile) - this won't leave enough time for a forest chop to benefit a granary, if we decide to go for that in Camu, but we'll still want to chop the deer down there fairly soon.
6. Techs: do we want to buy writing as soon as we can afford it? I agree there's no point in getting HBR with no horses in sight. Any reason to buy it from one civ over another? (Besides the price)
Anything else I should be thinking about?
Edit: and what is the elite archer doing?
)But before I play, some team discussion is in order
1. Should the next settler settle next to the iron? (Tomoyo's #8) Connecting/disconnecting will require roading/unroading the mountain itself, which would require more workers than if we didn't have a town at #8. But I'll let the military experts give their opinions here. If we don't settler dot #8, where should we go next?
2. Entremont: I'll see what I can work out as a food/production schedule to keep us getting a settler every six turns. I expect we'll have to go up to size six for a few turns every cycle, which will likely require the lux slider at 20%. But we will need MP in Mohacs soon anyway as it will grow past size 2 soon (but it will also be hooked to silks soon, too)
3. Camulodunum: What should we build here? I don't think we need a barracks immediately; I'm thinking another granary would be good; once the deer is chopped and watered, that's another 6-turn settler or 3-turn worker factory (probably workers to start, until the land is improved)
4. barbs: when is it best to attack, when should we let them attack, and when should we run away? I know about the defensive bonuses on different terrains, but I haven't calculated or gained a feel for how to best handle different situations.
5. The worker stuation: If I have things calculated correctly, Mohacs can finish its granary in 14 turns (without a forest chop), and then start pumping out 3-turn workers (some may be four turns at the beginning due to lack of sheilds). Until then, we'll have to make due. The sourthern worker is mining, and then I'll road to Camu (not sure which tile) - this won't leave enough time for a forest chop to benefit a granary, if we decide to go for that in Camu, but we'll still want to chop the deer down there fairly soon.
6. Techs: do we want to buy writing as soon as we can afford it? I agree there's no point in getting HBR with no horses in sight. Any reason to buy it from one civ over another? (Besides the price)
Anything else I should be thinking about?
Edit: and what is the elite archer doing?
How much does upgrading cost in vanilla? is it same as in C3C where it is umm.. 3 gold per shield (upgrading horseman to knight is 120gold)..
if so warrior to UU would be 120gold each.. and we wont be able to afford many upgrades so better to just connect the iron and make all cities with no food resource start producing them at full speed..
if so warrior to UU would be 120gold each.. and we wont be able to afford many upgrades so better to just connect the iron and make all cities with no food resource start producing them at full speed..
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