[BTS] Shadow Game - Monarch / Ramesses

[lymond]

Here's a pic of your game run on my machine:

Spoiler :

I have BUG in custom assets and Blue Marble. Blue Marble also allows me to change the color of the UI.

BUG add the Great General and Great Person bars at the top, and improves all the advisor screens and more.

oh...and here is the same image showing the dotmap tool:

Spoiler :

 

[Hesha]

I think I managed to install it. Thank you! I will post my next turns shortly.

And I don't think it was Fippy who wanted me to settle the hill, it was Krikav

 

[krikav]

I think the logic was, that if we are going to have GLH, we want to maximize coastal cities, having one city on that grassland hill, and one city SE of the rice, ensures reach of all the yummy river tiles without the need of a inland city.

There are other reasons too, such as the city being much better long term on that spot, and it gives capital more time to build the workboat, also you get immediate access to the two riverside grassland tiles for cottaging.
A monument is easy with the horse, and capital would be happy to lend away the horse (which is -1F) while growing.

But there is absolutely much to be said about settling a city and getting the fish right away too, if that can be arranged.

 

[Hesha]

Hmmm... how urgent is the scoutin in the SW? I mean... is it likely I'm going to find another civ there? Cause, if I don't whatever I find down there is not going to matter for a long time and in that case I'd be much better off spending my work boats, right? And in that case, I'd say I prefer krikav's longterm view on the city placement and since I should go myst after masonry anyways, I could horse up a monument pretty quickly... hmmm... how badly do the others disagree with this?

 

[lymond]

Personally I think settling for fish immediately is far better and never wasting hammers on a monument there. City can immediately grow and be productive. New wb should be quite fast in thebes if you start putting hammers in it now.

Honestly don’t like taking horse away from thebes now. Yeah it is -1F but not mich better to work otherwise. And strong tile for settlers anyway which is what thebes is mostly doing now.

Get scout wb now please

 

[krikav]

Getting a scouting workboat down can be very important, or if you are unlucky it didn't matter much.
If that workboat finds another AI, you would get an insane boost in commerce as every trade route in every city would go up from 1C to 3C.
And all the other positive effects of meeting the other AIs ofcourse.

If there is nothing there but some stray islands, nothing changes.
So I would say getting a boat there asap is of outmost importance.

Regarding placement of fish city, I don't have a strong opinion, I think they are more or less equivalent.
What I am concerned about though, is if you can get a settler and a workboat there at the same time if you decide to settle with fish in first ring.
If you pick the spot with fish in first ring, and you don't get a workboat there the same turn, or just a few turns after, then you are basically picking the worst parts of the two choices.

 

[lymond]

The way I look at it, Thebes has 8 base hammers now, so that is a 4t wb. But likely less with OF. Probably best to put one chop into WB for 1t clean which is 28 totall hammers in 1t. Build settler but finish wb 1t before settler completes. Wb can move to fish before setter. Should be exact timing.

Potentially you could complete wb 2 turns before settler if settler is close enough as wb should give 6h of OF which might make settler actually 1t. All depends on the math as you progress. Can’t tell without testing myself.

Very different from say a high food cap where I’d likely 2 or 3 pop whip into a wb which may complete it outright or combined with a well timed chop.

 

[lymond]

Oh..please post saves for each report

 

[Hesha]

Okay. I'm with Krikav on this one, I'd much prefer the lower location, but I'm here to lear so I just assume that whatever my first impulse is, might be stupid ^^ So I'll go for the fish. That means that the first wb will still go SW and I will use the next one for the new settlement?

 

[lymond]

Well, it's not stupid either way. There's logic but I prefer getting food online asap which you should be able to do here easily. I value that more over a coupla extra tiles. And no hammers needed for monument or the 10 turns it takes to pop borders. And I think I'd want Thebes having the horses for the next settler cause the 3rd settler will be built asap after the 2nd.

Post your last save and I will test my logic on the wb/settler.

The wb from Memphis is definitely going SW...no more discussion on that ..ha

 

[Hesha]

Okay, here's the save. I think I'll post an update soon.

 

[lymond]

lol..dont' automate your exploring warriors..i think they should just be spawnbusting for now anyway..the continent is explored

 

[Hesha]

What do you mean automate? The W one? I just sent him up to the corner because there is one diagonal ocean tile I haven't explored yet.

 

[lymond]

Well you had him on a go-to route I believe..that can lead to death...and he is already hurt. promote him to woody I and plant him on the forest hill next to stone.

Okay I played a few turns. Go to settler right after worker completes with 1H OF. chop forest 1W into wb for 1t, then back to settler. Chop forest 1NW of there which will end up being a pre-chop. The turn the pre-chop ends switch back to WB and finish that (2t) and then settler. That worker will move to tundra and chop that forest which times perfect for settler movement. Then back to the prechop forest which can go into next settler. (again always make sure the city "owns" the tile you want to put the chop into.

Queuing warrior in Memphis worked out very well in timing, then back to wb the turn before sailing completes and start LH next. Chop from grass hill will go into LH so that worker can start the mine. The other worker prechops both those forest E of Memphis and then starts chopping 2S of Thebes - that chop will go into the 3rd settler - not the second. Your 3rd settler for stone will be very fast.

Warrior later was used to stall LH for Masonry timing (i tech Myst first by the way) ...warrior later finished 2t before Masonry into LH and then GLH.

Memphis had 7H of from that and actually grew that turn it started GLH on the new mine.

GLH will finish fast. Worker from mine pre-chopped forest 1N of Memphis and then moved to tundra forest to chop that outright

 

[Hesha]

I just crunched the numbers... if I move my citizens in Thebes away from the horses to the ocean for a single turn, sailing will be researched 1 turn sooner, coincide with the completion of the WB in Memphis AND the chop for LH as well. Oh, and the settle will still be finished at the same time, because the loss in productivity would have been overflow anyways. This might be slightly inefficient, because I'm wasting 4h in total in exchange for 1c, but my OCD forces my hand... I have no choice.

 

[lymond]

lol..please don't do any of that. I'm not discussing the WB in Memphis anymore. You are going to stall that by queuing a warrior.

wow..completed GLH in like 4 or 5 turns. really simply a matter getting the chops around memphis complete.

anyone who does not think IND is great is...well....Swedish

 

[Hesha]

Alright. I managed to control myself. What do you mean above by "chop wb for 1t"... Do you mean to funnel the chopping hammers into the wb and switch right back to settler or do you mean to add the chop hammers AND one turn worth of production into the wb and then switch back the next turn?

 

[lymond]

yep, when the chop is ready, queue the WB and let it take the chop, which goes into what is building that turn. That one turn will put 28H outta 30H required for the wb, making it then a 2t build from that point later with likely around 6H of OF. But the way I laid it out above should work well

edit: yeah, you would go back to the settler the next turn...

Reason I have you not take the next chop into the settler and instead make it a prechop is it does not time right...the turn you stop chopping that forest 2W1N of Thebes,,then start the wb again and finish that and then the settler.

 

[Fippy]

It's mostly important to learn good (map) options, there will always be things that you practise for yourself, or develop your own playstyle
Me i.e. would have skipped fish city in favor of both gold & stone places first, but i can understand why some would take fish first and make it grow faster (those are always good cities for 2 scientists, which are very valuable in Iso and more so with Pyras).

Testing different paths on maps improves skill greatly, more than playing them once..imo.

 

[lymond]

And ..yeah...on Deity I would definitely go stone first as pretty much only way to secure Mids...and maybe not

I like fish city for learning though as it emphasizes certain basic things