Should Cathedrals replace Temples?

[Killtech]

the titles already summarizes the issue. the reason is
a) historically cathedrals were build on the foundations of older churches.
b) the cities building list gets a bit cleaner.
what i would do is just add all temples attribute to the cathedrals so there won't be much of a game change. (building prerequisite of cathedrals will be downed to one temple - since it replaces another one, so there won't be any change with that prerequisite either).

only thing i intend to change is the incense happiness bonus. it can grow too big with too many cathedrals (up to +9 ) so i'd switch that to a static gold gain.

additionally some religious specific wonders could replace cathedrals. in this case they'd also inherit their attributes from the cathedrals they replace plus the statistics they had prior to that. so no game relevant change done except some list shortening.

 

[Afforess]

Yes. +1 in favor.

 

[Arakhor]

I like the idea, but I'm not a strategic master, so I can only ever give my opinion.

 

[NBAfan]

Yes. +1 in favor.

Same here.

 

[os79]

+1 for purely selfish reason but it is still a good idea anyway.

Selfish reason: shut up the folks, except for incurable idiots, who pronounce that more content hurts! Killtech had done more to solve the content problem than all naysayers had done in last few years!

 

[Iceciro]

+1 for purely selfish reason but it is still a good idea anyway.

Selfish reason: shut up the folks, except for incurable idiots, who pronounce that more content hurts! Killtech had done more to solve the content problem than all naysayers had done in last few years!

Well, to be more accurate, Killtech's left all the content in there, but it now operates in a more sane way by being part of these upgrade trees.

 

[NBAfan]

+1 for purely selfish reason but it is still a good idea anyway.

Selfish reason: shut up the folks, except for incurable idiots, who pronounce that more content hurts! Killtech had done more to solve the content problem than all naysayers had done in last few years!

I have thought about the upgrade paths a long time ago but I was just too lazy.

 

[Sonereal]

I didn't even need to read the OP (I did though) to agree.

 

[Xperian]

I'm in favour of this change.

 

[vincentz]

Why not use the monestaries in same.

Temple - > Monestary - > Cathedrals - > Wonders

 

[Killtech]

i count 9 votes for it 0 against it. so that is settled. i'll include this change in my next BuildingUpgradeChains version - probably the last one for 1.73

@vinventz:
the monasteries do not fit to the chain both historically and by game characteristics (originally a research building, no happiness and unit unlocking). monasteries are places of education and historically several monasteries (or abbeys to be more precise) have evolved to universities. oxford is best example. and that is why i decided to put them into the education chain where they finally upgrade into universities (no obsoletion problem). at the other hand churches and cathedrals were always build directly in the center of cities in contrast to monasteries. so it was natural to replace the church by a much bigger one - the cathedral - for a prospering city.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

So I need three temples to build my first cathedral. Which replaces one of the temples. leaving me with 2 temples. So I need to build four to be able to build my next cathedral and each subsequent. Is this what you are suggesting?

 

[climat]

(building prerequisite of cathedrals will be downed to one temple - since it replaces another one, so there won't be any change with that prerequisite either).

Hmm.. I can't exactly understand this means. Does this mean one cathedral needs two temples?

 

[Killtech]

currently you need 2 temples per cathedral.

after my rework you will need one temple to build one cathedral. but: if you build it in the same city you replace the temple so you have zero. for the next cathedral (it will be the second ) you need 2 temples (because the prerequisite counts all cathedral against all temples) - so you will need to construct 2 temples in different cities then where your cathedral is located to be allowed to build the next cathedral.

summarizing: you will need at least as many temples as you have cathedrals to construct further ones - which is basically the same like the current system where you need twice as many temples (but cathedrals do not replace temples).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

AAranda's religions requires different numbers of temples for cathedrals. Will this break the compatibility of AAranda's religions and AND? Sorry I don't really have much time to spend on thinking about this at the moment.

 

[Afforess]

Yes and No. Your cathedrals will still work, they just won't be replaced like the rest of the normal religions. I don't see how it could break anything, it would just be slightly annoying.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Except AAranda's religions changes the XML for the cathedrals of the religions that come with RoM. So will this work if people use those religions and AND?

 

[Afforess]

You'd need to test to find out.

 

[Killtech]

ok, done. can download the whole package here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=365126

@DH:
i guess it will work but some changes might become overwritten. for the incense change i needed to force-override the cathedral BuildingInfos and since my folder usually loads after yours all AArandas changes to the original RoM religions will be lost. what kind of changes does that mod to the cathedrals? maybe it makes sense to implement those into my package.

and btw. don't tell me the religion wonders and cathedrals seems a bit overpowered. that's just their raw stats + the prior buildings added up which they replace.

one point i changed is to add a pre-temple building: a sancuary (not sure about the name, maybe i should name it sacred place but the dictionary suggested this...). it is very similar to the sacrificial altar but it is replaced by the temples. however i find that the sacrificial cult and the altar seem to be a bit too early for the stone age historically. i'd rather put them into the classic age.

 

[Iceciro]

So question: Due to the cathedrals getting the monestary bonuses, does that mean the bonus 10% beakers from the monestary stay after scientific method, making that tech not actually slow your science for a bit? That'd be fantastic.