Should Intellectual Property exist?

[Bestbank Tiger]

Oh?

Every time I hear the words "the jab" I immediately think of the hordes of willfully-scientifically illiterate people in my province who eagerly lapped up every ignorant thing Trump and other far-right <individuals> screeched on-camera and on social media.

Where is your "objective proof"?

Way too many breakthrough cases.

 

[Narz]

This seems like vibes, and not an actual truism.

Life experience

You ask for workable socialism, but every time a part of it is suggested, you reject it.

Please point to where I'm rejecting a social safety net.

Wrong. The quantity and quality of my art would improve hundredfold if I didn’t need to spend most of my week being exhausted by my day job.

You say that but have you experienced it?

Most people when they have unexpected free waste most of it.

It's a convenient excuse. If/only allows you to postpone artistic risks

 

[Lexicus]

It's an objective fact that the jab doesn't work.

Lol, lmao

 

[Angst]

most active artists do it because they can't help it, so more free time actually meshes well with that. it's hard to relate to when it's not compulsive. narz exacts the experience of a lot of people who really like the idea of doing art but don't really enjoy it as a practice. i'm very used to (particularly middle class) people kind of musing about the idea of writing books or painting and whatever but when they finally get free time they kind of fail because they actually don't enjoy the work. artists do to the degree that they can't help it. that's why they're poor.

there are, of course, artists that don't work like this and need some form of external pressure or validation to do their thing. this includes me. but trust me, i'm in the minority.

not sure how we got there from IP though. care to enlighten me?

 

[Gorbles]

Life experience

So, vibes then.

Everyone has different life experiences. They all happen, but you can't generalise based on them alone.

Please point to where I'm rejecting a social safety net.

I didn't say you were. You like to say: argue with what's written, not with what's in your head, right?

Do that.

 

[Igaryd]

Yeah but this is because right-wing ideology is evil and bad, not because doing your own take on someone else's art is necessarily bad. I never heard of the pepe creator being mad about pepe memes that weren't...you know...nazi

What do you have against personal freedom? Oh I know when people are free to exercise their own personel choices they tend to not become worshippers of leftist shibboleths.

 

[Narz]

most active artists do it because they can't help it, so more free time actually meshes well with that. it's hard to relate to when it's not compulsive. narz exacts the experience of a lot of people who really like the idea of doing art but don't really enjoy it as a practice

Most people daydream about being a creative but daydreaming is as far as it goes.

People think oh if I could just get a cabin in the woods with no responsibility I'd definitely make great art but with work and school there's no way I could.

But that's as excuse. Places with high unemployment aren't full of productive artists.

not sure how we got there from IP though. care to enlighten me?

Who can keep track.

 

[Igaryd]

So, vibes then.

Everyone has different life experiences. They all happen, but you can't generalise based on them alone.

I didn't say you were. You like to say: argue with what's written, not with what's in your head, right?

Do that.

The problem with social safety nets is that without a lot of care the become prisons.

 

[Narz]

So, vibes then.

Everyone has different life experiences. They all happen, but you can't generalise based on them alone

.
Your life experience tells you idleness leads to greatness? The unemployed with lots of unstructured time tend to be the most creative?

You've clearly had a very different life experience to me.

I didn't say you were. You like to say: argue with what's written, not with what's in your head, right?

Do that

What are you even arguing?

 

[Narz]

The problem with social safety nets is that without a lot of care the become prisons.

I agree.

But student loans and medical debt can also become prisons. I think everyone should have the opportunity to be able to be productive

 

[Lexicus]

What do you have against personal freedom? Oh I know when people are free to exercise their own personel choices they tend to not become worshippers of leftist shibboleths.

What does right-wing ideology have to do with personal freedom? Right-wing ideology is all about destroying personal freedom.

 

[Evie]

My personal experience is that my most creative periods are usually when I do have other imposed activities on my plate *in moderation* and *which I enjoy or am at ease with*.

When I'm having to force myself to focus on uninteresting or boring duties, I don't have the energy left to create. When I have nothing to do, I chronically overestimate how much time there is in the day and constantly meander into everything but creativity by thinking there will be time enough tomorrow or the day after.

In short, I must have enough free time and energy to create, but not so much that I stop valuing time and energy and squander them left and right.

Work is not the only way to get there, and it can definitely go too far, but idleness is definitely no better.

 

[Igaryd]

Nah, see I disagree with this premise. You make it as though all the crappy decisions or simple ineptitude of others is the result of capitalism always interjecting in a negative way so as to make it so. The people aren't deficient, they're all at heart omnipotent/omniscient gods waiting to be unleashed from the chains of capitalism producing all their mortal flaws.

Just accept that most of the population isn't any good and using capitalism isn't a sufficient explanation to explain all of the ineptitude.

Well the primary problem of course is that none of us are perfect. Perfection as it turns out requires all that omni stuff as a prerequisite and if you aren't there at birth you never will be there is simply too much information and none of us will ever live long enough to collect it all let alone get it all sorted out, and understand how it all works together

What does right-wing ideology have to do with personal freedom? Right-wing ideology is all about destroying personal freedom.

Typical leftist nonsense. Conflate freedom and slavery lap up the stalinist lie that Fascism is of the right never mind that almost all the policies of Mussolini from publicly funded health care to massive public private partnerships that eventually freeze out the small business folk are right out of lefties play book if in some cases a bit less violent.

 

[Igaryd]

My personal experience is that my most creative periods are usually when I do have other imposed activities on my plate *in moderation* and *which I enjoy or am at ease with*.

When I'm having to force myself to focus on uninteresting or boring duties, I don't have the energy left to create. When I have nothing to do, I chronically overestimate how much time there is in the day and constantly meander into everything but creativity by thinking there will be time enough tomorrow or the day after.

In short, I must have enough free time and energy to create, but not so much that I stop valuing time and energy and squander them left and right.

Work is not the only way to get there, and it can definitely go too far, but idleness is definitely no better.

I used to run a CNC Lathe, once I had my program done and the set up proved and fifty parts to run I would commence my song repertoire - in my hey day I probably new over 200 songs all vs by heart or I'd right a sentence change out the parts hit go and write another sentence. Rinse and repeat until what ever essay I was working on at the moment was done.

 

[Lexicus]

Typical leftist nonsense. Conflate freedom and slavery lap up the stalinist lie that Fascism is of the right never mind that almost all the policies of Mussolini from publicly funded health care to massive public private partnerships that eventually freeze out the small business folk are right out of lefties play book if in some cases a bit less violent.

Lol, lmao

Conflate freedom and slavery? Out of curiosity, what do you think of the Confederate States of America?

Oh and another question, do you think trans people should be free to use their preferred bathroom or should the government make that illegal?

 

[Crezth]

Please point to where I'm rejecting a social safety net.

Dude you did just oh so cleverly state that people won’t produce as much unless they’re pressured to do so/have expectations. What is your precious UBI but an excuse for the poor not to find some other way to lift themselves up? What’s the real function of your social safety net anyway?

You and I actually want the same thing, because the main effect of UBI is that people have more leisure time, can take time off between jobs, are not as pressured to join the labor market. Surely this all lines up with exactly what I was proposing as a solution to the problems of capitalist book production. Now maybe we would then disagree on how to implement, but these semantic disagreements are piddling by comparison.

 

[Kaushad]

I agree.

But student loans and medical debt can also become prisons. I think everyone should have the opportunity to be able to be productive

Prosperous and civilised societies guarantee welfare. I don’t know of any that guarantee a productive role. It’s not the safety net holds people down, rather it doesn’t launch everyone into a state where they no longer need it.

 

[Gorbles]

Your life experience tells you idleness leads to greatness? The unemployed with lots of unstructured time tend to be the most creative?

You've clearly had a very different life experience to me.

My life experience teaches me that people do not thrive being forced to work 50+ hour weeks just to scrape by.

You're the one saying silly things like "unemployed people aren't making great things, checkmate socialism". Unemployment as we see and experience it is still under capitalism. It doesn't magically stop being capitalism.

What are you even arguing?

Exactly what I said two or three posts ago.

You asked for "workable socialism" and yet instead of listening to people explaining aspects of it, you continually pick holes instead.

Typical leftist nonsense.

Wow, such a supporter of personal freedoms.

 

[Narz]

Dude you did just oh so cleverly state that people won’t produce as much unless they’re pressured to do so/have expectations. What is your precious UBI but an excuse for the poor not to find some other way to lift themselves up? What’s the real function of your social safety net anyway?

Some social safety net is good but yeah obviously a bit of pressure is good too.

The best way government can help is provide subsidized higher education imo.

Welfare and benefits are tricky. If you know lots of people on benefit you'll understand.

My life experience teaches me that people do not thrive being forced to work 50+ hour weeks just to scrape by.

Cool yeah that's the other extreme

You're the one saying silly things like "unemployed people aren't making great things, checkmate socialism".

I don't talk like that.

Unemployment as we see and experience it is still under capitalism. It doesn't magically stop being capitalism

Ok sure, your point?

You asked for "workable socialism" and yet instead of listening to people explaining aspects of it,

I listened and responded.

And a bit of a mixed economy is fine. Lexius used the word communism and I asked him to clarify his ideas.

Isn't that what forums are supposed to be about?

For something to be workable you have to put in a bit more work than "free bread for everyone"

 

[Angst]

Most people daydream about being a creative but daydreaming is as far as it goes.

People think oh if I could just get a cabin in the woods with no responsibility I'd definitely make great art but with work and school there's no way I could.

But that's as excuse. Places with high unemployment aren't full of productive artists.

now again the correlation between a lot of free time and lack of productivity only really holds up for people who don't like to make art.

for those who compulsively do it, which is the majority of artistic production, more free time means more art.