Leader? You're making me a bit paranoid. There shouldn't be any need for any kind of "leader" country in the EU. It would be as if one of the parties in a democracy would be given a special "leader" role (noone would accept that, instead any coalition/alliance of parties can seize the power). If we don't have faith in the EU decision making machinery, we should immediately change it. EU must not be dependent on one of its members having some kind of special role.Marla_Singer said:
Should Turkey be allowed to join the EU or not?
- Thread starter Doc Tsiolkovski
- Start date
King Alexander said:
And yet, the Koran teaches that Sharia law must be implemented in order for it to be a righteous country. Not "obey these principles in yoru life regardless of what people think" like Christians, or "use these principles as a foundation" like logical commandments, (Do not murder, do not steal) but Sharia law must be pushed forward as superior to every other law and govern over not only Muslims - but everyone in the country.
That's what really worries me. Europe already has a declining birthrate and is having to import huge amounts of immigrants to keep it's 4:1 Worker:Retired ratio going. In order to keep this ratio to 2050, their going to have to import 1.2 billion people. I find the idea of Charles Martel's victory at Tours being overturned by the EU a horrifying prospect.
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
I think they should be in, but we also should totally reform the EU (read: get rid of CAP) first!
Unlike Marla, I'm not convinced the UE should grow towards a strong political union. The benefit is, imho, in economy!
Unlike Marla, I'm not convinced the UE should grow towards a strong political union. The benefit is, imho, in economy!
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
No more leader ? What does it mean ? That the 400,000 people living in Luxembourg should have the same power than the 80,000,000 people living in Germany ? Or maybe you meant that one european citizen = one european citizen... in which case Germany is... a leader.Hakim said:
If you want the EU to be democratic, you can't give the same power to every of its members.
jonatas
tropicalista
Elrohir said:
please, what do you really know about this subject? if it's anything like the knowledge you demonstrated of chinese history and the crusades in other threads, probably not much
quite frankly, going off like a paranoid ideological fanatic and making weak historical references, which are often blatantly inaccurate, doesn't do you alot of credit....
jonatas said:
Ever heard of 'capitalization'?
I have a fairly good working knowledge of the Middle Ages. I'm no PhD, but I think I know more than the average person, and what I don't know I could probably find out pretty quickly.
Could you not call me names? It's irritating, and makes you look like a noob with a weak case. (And I don't like debating people with weak ideas, it takes the fun out of it
)I'm not so sure. Wouldn't membership remove the reason to "flee" to other parts of Europe since they would be inside already? Perhaps people would move back instead. The eastern parts of Turkey would get some of the regional aid that rich countries like Spain are getting now.storealex said:
It seems Denmark and Germany have a lot of issues with immigrant turks. IIRC a lot of turks immigrated to Sweden in the 60s and 70s when we were short of labour. I never read anything about them in newspapers or hear about them in any other media. Not even racists mention them. They have... disappeared. Complete integration, I guess, partly because they got a job as soon as they took the first step on swedish soil (or before actually).
You said it yourself, the power is not proportional to the population. Besides, majority votes requires more votes the more votes there are so no, no single country could get anything through. It also seems there are a small penalty for being poor, but that's just speculation on my part.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
What's CAPstapel said:
?Hakim:
Germany has surprisingly little problems with the Turkish immigrants, much less than with those from the former Soviet Union. We've had zero incidents with Turkish Islamists so far.
In fact, considering the large number of Turkish people here (about 4 million), they are pretty much an arguement in favor of considering Turkey to be a worthy member of the EU...much more than Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, or other Bundesländer with Skinhead problems
.
Tank_Guy#3
Lion of Lehistan
Turkey is part of Asia Minor and NOT a part of Europe so my answer is no.
I guessed you were talking about member countries being leaders, no? Perhaps we put in different meanings in the word leader. For me it's a role while perhaps "leader" for you means "winner" as in possessing the most votes etc.Marla_Singer said:
The geographic location of Turkey outside of Europe isn't that important. No, really. It isn't.
Given that Turkey is part of UEFA (if you're a football fan) and Israel takes part in the Eurovision song contest (if that's still going) politically nobody cares about what geographical region Turkey is in as long as it is close enough to the EU that trade can move easily between the two.
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
Craphola Agricultural Payment.Doc Tsiolkovski said:What's CAP
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Let's not forget even Israel, which, contrary to Turkey, has not the slightest acre in Europe (Thrakia, with Edirne; as well as Istanbul for the most parts itself), is member of the UEFA (not that this matters , unlike Turkey) and participates in the Eurovision Song Contest (now here, it does matter - they've won it already! ).
And, if Asia Minor is not part of Europe, why is Cyprus part of Europe? That island is farther S and E...
Plus, that also implies Ancient Greece for a large part wasn't European.
, unlike Turkey) and participates in the Eurovision Song Contest (now here, it does matter - they've won it already! ).And, if Asia Minor is not part of Europe, why is Cyprus part of Europe? That island is farther S and E...
Plus, that also implies Ancient Greece for a large part wasn't European.
Damnyankee
Honest Abe
Doc Tsiolkovski said:Let's not forget even Israel, which, contrary to Turkey, has not the slightest acre in Europe (Thrakia, with Edirne; as well as Istanbul for the most parts itself), is member of the UEFA (not that this matters
And, if Asia Minor is not part of Europe, why is Cyprus part of Europe? That island is farther S and E...
Plus, that also implies Ancient Greece for a large part wasn't European.
funny, the Eu is expanding its borders to former roman territories outside Europe, lol. Israel should be apart of the EU though, it has so many European immigrants
Shaihulud
Deity
Well if EU doesn't want Turkey to join but is too embarrassed to say it out right, why don't you set it some impossible task, such as; "Before you can join the sacred EU, you must make peace between the Palestine and Israel". or you can set a transitionary(hazing) phase for Turkey to become EU because it is another "culture". Make sure you gouge them hard during this time so that they protest, when they do apologize and say they don't conform to your cultural standards. Think creative and be as nasty as you can get.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Elrohir said:
Oh God, that's what you media say?
EU is in fact both pro-israeli and pro-palestinian. We aren't prefering Israel like the USA do, but that doesn't mean we are anti-israeli.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Marla_Singer said:
Marla, I usually tend to agree with you, but now are you completely off the trail.
Germany is the most "powerfull" state in EU in the means of numbers of votes. Does it mean they "lead" the EU? No. They need support of other states as well.
Turkey with about the same population (and maybe higher in the future) won't lead EU wherever it likes. It will need support of Germany, France, Slovenia, Portugal, Sweden and so on. They could be easily outvoted.
These fears of Turkey in the head of EU are IMO irrational.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
The EU wants to become imperial europe in the 21st century. The less nations it has to use for that purpose, the better.
