Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Very sorry for your loss, buddy.
Sid variant
- Thread starter I. Larkin
- Start date
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
lurker's comment:
I'm not sure you guys should be bothering with a copes prebuild anywhere.
Why?
Geek has nice bonuses, but looks like it will make 49 commerce before corruption at size 12 (4 for center, 7 silks for 35, 5 roaded for 10). With a courthouse in Geek plus the FP in Cowigula, it will have 18% corruption, or 40 GPT, which turns into 40 beakers. You get that from 3 science farms.
Sure, once you get to size 20, that's another 15 (18*.82), plus some tourism money around 1500 AD or so, plus a police station will help - but I think you guys would be better off jamming another city on your island and starting to prep for the invasion of Rome/France/etc.
I'm not sure you guys should be bothering with a copes prebuild anywhere.
Why?
Geek has nice bonuses, but looks like it will make 49 commerce before corruption at size 12 (4 for center, 7 silks for 35, 5 roaded for 10). With a courthouse in Geek plus the FP in Cowigula, it will have 18% corruption, or 40 GPT, which turns into 40 beakers. You get that from 3 science farms.
Sure, once you get to size 20, that's another 15 (18*.82), plus some tourism money around 1500 AD or so, plus a police station will help - but I think you guys would be better off jamming another city on your island and starting to prep for the invasion of Rome/France/etc.
I'm sorry about your mother in law, Larkin.
You make a good point, AT. 40 beakers is certainly nothing to sneeze at, but those 400 shields (or the 300 or so we invest before being beaten to it) may be spent better elsewhere.
About markets, they really will be useful. This isn't pangaea deity. You can't just build a bunch of workers, some barracks, a ton of horsemen, knights and/or cavs and just conquer the world. This is gonna be a long game, not just a quick finish that where barracks are the only improvement needed and a steady stream of military will finish the game for us in the 500s AD. We're going to have to keep up in tech with a very limiting variant, and it will take some infrastructure. Markets will be useful. There will be 5 luxes available after navigation, and we only need four more and markets to solve all happiness until hopsitals. Plus we are a republic, which means war wariness, so we may want more than that. Also, our big fat treasury isn't far from being depleted, and when we have to run 50% SCI and 50% treasury, we're going to be wanting some markets. Besides, what else do we have to build? I think we can all agree that wealth and temples are off limits. I know I suggested spears earlier, but normally a game like this involves the great library, and that gives lots of excess cash for upgrades. In a game like this where every penny is spent towards deficit research, there's no way we'll come up with the cash to upgrade any spears at 120 bucks a spear. Building any offensive units seems silly. With no upgrades and a relatively small island building 30 muskets and boats to carry them will be a pretty big task and until that happens offensive units are completely useless, they'd just be living off our government without fighitng at all. After all this thinking about our current situation, it makes this game look more and more hopeless...
You make a good point, AT. 40 beakers is certainly nothing to sneeze at, but those 400 shields (or the 300 or so we invest before being beaten to it) may be spent better elsewhere.
About markets, they really will be useful. This isn't pangaea deity. You can't just build a bunch of workers, some barracks, a ton of horsemen, knights and/or cavs and just conquer the world. This is gonna be a long game, not just a quick finish that where barracks are the only improvement needed and a steady stream of military will finish the game for us in the 500s AD. We're going to have to keep up in tech with a very limiting variant, and it will take some infrastructure. Markets will be useful. There will be 5 luxes available after navigation, and we only need four more and markets to solve all happiness until hopsitals. Plus we are a republic, which means war wariness, so we may want more than that. Also, our big fat treasury isn't far from being depleted, and when we have to run 50% SCI and 50% treasury, we're going to be wanting some markets. Besides, what else do we have to build? I think we can all agree that wealth and temples are off limits. I know I suggested spears earlier, but normally a game like this involves the great library, and that gives lots of excess cash for upgrades. In a game like this where every penny is spent towards deficit research, there's no way we'll come up with the cash to upgrade any spears at 120 bucks a spear. Building any offensive units seems silly. With no upgrades and a relatively small island building 30 muskets and boats to carry them will be a pretty big task and until that happens offensive units are completely useless, they'd just be living off our government without fighitng at all. After all this thinking about our current situation, it makes this game look more and more hopeless...
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
This grasshoppah needs to take a hot chocolate and rest. We're not quite done here, no!
ThERat
Deity
I. Larkin, sorry to hear about your mother in law 
as for the game, it seems ignas is MIA...Since I.Larkin won't be playing for a few days, we can slow down a little. However, a game needs to proceed or it will die. That said, if ignas doesn't post a 'got it' within the next 24 hours, I will grab it.
I agree that markets will be useful as happy multipliers, not just yet though.
as for the game, it seems ignas is MIA...Since I.Larkin won't be playing for a few days, we can slow down a little. However, a game needs to proceed or it will die. That said, if ignas doesn't post a 'got it' within the next 24 hours, I will grab it.
I agree that markets will be useful as happy multipliers, not just yet though.
ThERat
Deity
maybe we can time things to get universities up if there is nothing left. Are we going for wealth if there is nothing to build?
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
If there really isn't a thing to build I'd do a market, it will come handy eventually, and it just may serve as a univ pre-build given the situation.
I. Larkin
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,417
Good "strategical thinking" Own. I thought to write something similar, but it looks a bit negative. Idea of "variant", was proper tech trade, when we research first, trade wise and cash from trade compensape our reseach expenses. Like after ThERat turnset. After of combination of "bad luck" and "mistakes" with tech trade/gift actions situation really become very difficult (we gift 10-15 turns to AIs for "nothing"). It is past now, but let me say: better was not to trade with Sumeria, and if "yes" do not trade Feo. France had to research it herself. (France have no contact with Greek-Babilon Island and it is top priority now to interfere to this contact).
The same with Germans. It was important to make and embassy and if Germany in contact with Persia arrange alliance vs Persia, like sumeria vs France. I am not sure that it is an option now because they could already trade Mono to Persia and we have nothin to bring Bismark to MA (Literacy is cheap, and with our small military alliance is espensive). Embassy also very expensive. May be better to hope, that there is no Geman/Persia contact? Anyhow, in worst case scenario I think we are not done yet, but we have to return to "ThERat" style of playing. Our Island is OK to stay in MA and early IA, but it is too small for late IA and ModA. We need to conquer land in radius 32-40 that includes Rome, Sumeria, Greece, part of Babylon and French South island. I think Roman in hardest target, because no effective MA is possible. AI in war normally send all active troops to front leaving backyard Cities with 2-3 defenders only. Here is our chanse. But it is "long term future". We have to have astronomy first and preferably to have monopoly. (or we may try to conquer Persian Islan via dengerous water?)
RE: COPERNICUS Automated Teller right in "general", when tere are plenty of land to build "farm(s)". But I can't see any around. But we did not scout hard enough. I think we have to try harder. (More Galleys to suicide mission in radius 40?)
It is additional "drawback" of Copernicus that we have to prebuild NOW (or may be after Courthouse). In this case, we will miss university in Geek. But we may have "expensive one" if we miss Copernicus in Geek. Very later on we may make palace jump to Geek.
I prefer to postpone final decison about Copernicus after Courthouse.
What to build? For me it is not a "big" question: Harbors and galleys in costal Cities, Horse and spear in Central. Count well when university pre-build to start Market. Few markets also OK. Some City may build corthouse.
"Irrigate" should pump workers that wil joint at once aqueduct Cities (Geek and FP first) to have size 12 ASAP. Swich to settler now.
I think ThERat up.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
lurker's comment:
I think that you guys have to grow a LOT. Theology takes 3200 beakers - MT techs take 8x that!!
The ONLY way to grow a lot is to get a lot of land from the AI to use as farms.
That requires a lot of muskets. That's all I'm thinking.
I think that you guys have to grow a LOT. Theology takes 3200 beakers - MT techs take 8x that!!
The ONLY way to grow a lot is to get a lot of land from the AI to use as farms.
That requires a lot of muskets. That's all I'm thinking.
I. Larkin
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,417
BTW horse have the same attck power as Musketman and cost twise cheaper... things remind me my old Vanila Diety games: unload a lot of Cavs protected by few rifelmen to take enemy capital with UN and 5 MI defending...
I. Larkin
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,417
OK, ThERat UP
In principle I will have "long connection " 8 Nov in Rio, and may pick up sav file to play while waiting and "in the plane". But I have short connection in Paris, so things will wait untill Moscow. But it will be more comfortable for me if Rat play before his night tomorrow.
ThERat
Deity
ok, got it then. playing this evening...
joining workers and all sounds good but I wonder how to keep a size 12 city happy. I persoanlly would build temples also. Surely a cheap way to keep us happier...
joining workers and all sounds good but I wonder how to keep a size 12 city happy. I persoanlly would build temples also. Surely a cheap way to keep us happier...
ThERat
Deity
I know the community usually is strictly against temples....well...how do we plan to keep cities with pop 12 happy? We can't trade luxes for a long time and have no WH. Increasing luxes will just drop our research rate. It will be a balance of scientists and high lux rate then.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Well, temples are 60 shields here, I'd be more comfortable with a couple extra scientists for a while and a few extra lux%. We'll be maxing out cashflow in republic anyways so it shouldn't be too bad... in the case where corruption kills the lux, we'll almost be better off building 1 or 2 shields/turn units with a number of scientists than going all out with research buildings.
ThERat
Deity
save
Pre-Turn
so checking out the status
swap quite a few builds to harbors and other stuff before going for markets. FP works hill to get it in 11 turns
IT Paris completes Sun Tzu to boot
1.130BC
get our capital to 15spt to get some horses out since there is still a French galley around
2.110BC
Persia has invention now as well
IT Rome has been dragged into this war against us by France as well now
3.90BC
Sumer have some extra cash now for trades, bu it is not good enough
4.70BC
nth really, the French galley still sails around
IT Persia comes and want mono for peace, they can wait long for that to happen
5. 50BC
zzz
6. 30BC
Sumeria suddenly has a jump in income, we could get 11gpt for a tech plus all their gold (110gold). I hold off though
7.10BC
I redline the French galley but fail to sink it
8.10AD
it;s a real pity, France and Rome (!!!) now both have monotheism
research to theology has dropped by a turn to 2
Sumeria would still pay 13gpt and 140 gold for any tech
9.30AD
drop research a notch
IT we get the FP and theology at the same time
10.50AD
It's the perfect time to hand over the game as some decisions have to be made
At the moment education takes 12 turns to complete
unis cost us 100gold, thus we can start to prebuild them
We can now make peace with France if we want to, it would cost us 70gold though
Sumer would still pay 12gpt and 165gold for a tech
We have gained more harbors and some aqueducts, started some galleys and we do have some horses around
Pre-Turn
so checking out the status
swap quite a few builds to harbors and other stuff before going for markets. FP works hill to get it in 11 turns
IT Paris completes Sun Tzu to boot
1.130BC
get our capital to 15spt to get some horses out since there is still a French galley around
2.110BC
Persia has invention now as well
IT Rome has been dragged into this war against us by France as well now
3.90BC
Sumer have some extra cash now for trades, bu it is not good enough
4.70BC
nth really, the French galley still sails around
IT Persia comes and want mono for peace, they can wait long for that to happen
5. 50BC
zzz
6. 30BC
Sumeria suddenly has a jump in income, we could get 11gpt for a tech plus all their gold (110gold). I hold off though
7.10BC
I redline the French galley but fail to sink it
8.10AD
it;s a real pity, France and Rome (!!!) now both have monotheism
research to theology has dropped by a turn to 2
Sumeria would still pay 13gpt and 140 gold for any tech
9.30AD
drop research a notch
IT we get the FP and theology at the same time
10.50AD
It's the perfect time to hand over the game as some decisions have to be made
At the moment education takes 12 turns to complete
unis cost us 100gold, thus we can start to prebuild them
We can now make peace with France if we want to, it would cost us 70gold though
Sumer would still pay 12gpt and 165gold for a tech
We have gained more harbors and some aqueducts, started some galleys and we do have some horses around
