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[Brad Oliver]

I guess ease of porting, or otherwise, depends on how dependent the software is on each aspect of DirectX, but we can only speculate.

DirectX (and by extension, DirectPlay) won't make the port significantly harder or longer unless they use some obscure aspect we haven't seen yet. Everyone in the Mac business has a set of DirectX/Win32 libraries that make it a snap, very much like MacDX - the main difference being we don't license our library out.

It all works well for the most part, but to make the point a bit clearer - although we can quickly port DirectPlay code, it won't connect to PC games running DirectPlay, since our version uses a different networking protocol. When you play Age of Empires 2, Age of Mythology or DungeonSiege, for example, you're playing Mac versions that are using DirectPlay "lookalikes" that really run on top of OpenPlay.

 

[Macintosh]

DirectX (and by extension, DirectPlay) won't make the port significantly harder or longer unless they use some obscure aspect we haven't seen yet. Everyone in the Mac business has a set of DirectX/Win32 libraries that make it a snap, very much like MacDX - the main difference being we don't license our library out.

It all works well for the most part, but to make the point a bit clearer - although we can quickly port DirectPlay code, it won't connect to PC games running DirectPlay, since our version uses a different networking protocol. When you play Age of Empires 2, Age of Mythology or DungeonSiege, for example, you're playing Mac versions that are using DirectPlay "lookalikes" that really run on top of OpenPlay.

Hi Brad,

just one question to this: Is it not possible to use the same networking protocol - or in other words, why is it not possible to design a networking protocol on the Macintosh which would be a "lookalike" to that networking protocol used in the windows world?

Mac

 

[AlanH]

My thoughts exactly. Low level/network level protocols (the level that sends the data packets back and forth between the players' computers) ought to be the easy bit. If you have the higher level stuff to do with the actual game mechanics sorted and capable fo interfacing with the game software, I really don't see the problem.

 

[Brad Oliver]

My thoughts exactly. Low level/network level protocols (the level that sends the data packets back and forth between the players' computers) ought to be the easy bit.

If you feel that it's fairly easy, I welcome you to try.

Certainly you can deduce the actual game data contents - that's the easy bit. Determining the wrappers around it applied by DirectPlay is the hard part. It's like a black box - data comes into your Mac and you have to first decipher how it's laid out and what it contains. Then you have to determine what all those little mystery bits mean so you can send it back to the PC in a way that it knows what to do with it.

You really can't debug it on the PC at a high level. You'll definitely need to invoke a packet sniffer and approach it that way. It's pretty hard-core.

 

[AlanH]

Packet sniffers of one kind or another were the way I first learnt about xmodem, then zmodem then Appletalk, and then about TCP/IP. Trouble is I don't have a source of DirectPlay packets, otherwise I'd take you up on your challenge - seriously!

 

[Trabpukcip]

I love the way this thread is turning...

 

[JoAT]

Brad,

I know it's standard procedure for all game companies to not comment on unannounced games, but to your knowledge, as someone inside the Mac gaming industry, has Take-Two been approaching any (un-named) Mac porting houses about doing the conversion of Civ4? Just blink twice for yes and once for no.

JoAT

 

[Brad Oliver]

I know it's standard procedure for all game companies to not comment on unannounced games, but to your knowledge, as someone inside the Mac gaming industry, has Take-Two been approaching any (un-named) Mac porting houses about doing the conversion of Civ4?

It's safe to assume that any game that has anything resembling name recognition eventually winds up in talks. Of course, that's no guarantee that anything will ever happen.

 

[dojoboy]

It's safe to assume that any game that has anything resembling name recognition eventually winds up in talks. Of course, that's no guarantee that anything will ever happen.

Brad, is there a scenario where, IF MacSoft takes on cIV, you could be involved?

Also, is it still plausible that SMAC/x could be released in OSX native, as part of a line of classic games?

 

[Brad Oliver]

Brad, is there a scenario where, IF MacSoft takes on cIV, you could be involved?

The only scenario involving myself and MacSoft would also involve my quitting Aspyr.

Also, is it still plausible that SMAC/x could be released in OSX native, as part of a line of classic games?

Yes, provided some of the legalities get sorted out.

 

[Sophie 378]

I have a mac with the origional civ. I had to get a PC and the conquests to finally play it. We should be treated equally. As it says in the Declearation of Independence written by the Aztecs and signed by Weorge Goshington, "All men are created equal."

I got a Mac because I was so p'd off with my PC . It couldn't even start Windows reliably without crashing, even after a Win reinstall! And now I'm getting bad withdrawel symptoms from all my games - I've only got Myst that works on Mac too.... Ebay here I come ! Does anyone know if Civ3 Complete will be coming out on Mac in the next year or so ? If not, I shall just buy all the components of it .

 

[Sophie 378]

Quoting from your petition:
" As die-hard Civilization players, gaming devotees and faithful Mac users, we constantly feel the "back of the bus" treatment from the gaming industry. While the VIP PC users get their multitude of titles released "on time", we get the crumbs at a later date, sometimes butchered versions that aren't fully featured or without their accompanying releases (i.e. Conquests and Play the World).

While Apple pushes ahead of PC manufacturers, innovating and breaking ground on their own products, it's third-party gaming vendors fall flat on their collective faces and "hold out" to see it the product is a hit first or if the Mac audience is worthy of their title.

But, this isn't about them. This is about Civilization. We are only asking about this one product and the hopes that you can set the tone for the industry by providing us with a parallel release date to the PC platform. We know it can be done. It's just whether you, the developers, wish to oblige.

You want numbers? There is an estimated 25 million Mac users worldwide. Apple shipped 876,000 units in the fourth quarter of 2004. It's grown faster than the PC market for the first time in 11 years. Is this really a market you want to ignore and treat like an illegitimate stepchild?

So, set the example. Be the innovator. Release Civilization IV (and all it's sister releases) for Mac at the same time as for the PC. It's that simple. This is all we ask.

Sincerely,."

I PROTEST! I will not sign the petition until you remove the superfluous apostrophes in the "it's"'s (labelled with 's) - they are not possessive, so no apostrophe is needed: it should be just "and all its sister releases" etc. Haven't you read Eats, Shoots and Leaves (Lynne Truss, pub. 2003 by Profile Books)? Also, the "and" should be "in", "it should be "if", "is" should be "are".

Sorry, feel free to hate me!

 

[AlanH]

Ahah! A perfectionist! Welcome to the forum, Sophie.

I've given up trying to instil any sense of correct English usage around here. Last time I tried I was told I was a spelling nazi. But feel free to tilt at windmills if you think it will do any good

PS No, Civ3 Complete won't come out for the Mac, and you won't be able to buy the components either. There is no Conquests, and there is no Play the World. Be happy! Civ3 vanilla is fine. You can join in all the fun of Succession Games and Game of the Month - what more could you want?

 

[Sophie 378]

PS No, Civ3 Complete won't come out for the Mac, and you won't be able to buy the components either. There is no Conquests, and there is no Play the World. Be happy! Civ3 vanilla is fine. You can join in all the fun of Succession Games and Game of the Month - what more could you want?

There's Game of the Year all over Ebay ... worth the extra 37p or similar over vanilla version? Any votes? I'm carefully waiting until this time tomorrow to buy anything off Ebay - the new Apple store in Birmingham opens at 6pm tmrw, and I'm going to see if they have any freebies!
PS I LOVE these smilies!

 

[Xyth]

I have the Game of the Year version. The extra 37p gives you a printed manual, keyboard layout chart, the Civ3 editor, and a movie of 'The Making of Civ3'. And it's a slightly later version of the (vanilla) game.

Having said that you can download the editor from somewhere (Firaxis site?) and all the patches to update both the editor and game the latest versions are here in these forums. So IMO the only real benefit is the manual and key chart.

 

[AlanH]

I had a printed manual in the plain vanilla copy I have. If you are buying from fleabay you may not get everything that was in the original box anyway.

Have fun at the Apple store opening. If they're giving away any new dual G5s blag one for me, won't you?

 

[Sophie 378]

I got a free Apple teeshirt ... but that's it. The guy right behind me in the queue got a free iBook, and a lady about two minutes behind me got a free iMac. I hate them !

 

[AlanH]

That's pants! I wonder if my son was the guy behind you .... a quick email is in order I feel

 

[fe3333au]

Number 131

I signed not as a member of the Mac community, as I am a staunch supporter of the other team

However as a recent convert to pbem (see signature) ... i would prefer as many opponents as possible to engage with (even the likes of the misdirected Mac user )

Regards and Play Nice

 

[ejday]

Number 131

I signed not as a member of the Mac community, as I am a staunch supporter of the other team

Sir, we thank you for your brotherly support. As for being on the "other team," no worries. That condition is often unavoidable and you have our sympathies. I think you'll find Mac users can be accepting no matter what condition you may be afflicted with.

However as a recent convert to pbem (see signature) ... i would prefer as many opponents as possible to engage with (even the likes of the misdirected Mac user )

We would be but a small addition to an already crowded field. However, if nothing else, we would certainly be creative opponents.

Regards and Play Nice

Sir, we play so nice you may find you don't mind losing...